Freemasonry and Christianity

[Albion]

As a former Mason, I must agree with you to a certain extent. The key issue in the Christian case against Freemasonry is that it teaches that the gods of all religions are essentially one in the same, just having different names. So in the Masonic Lodge, they satisfy those different names, for all Masons regardless of their faith, with one name the "Great Architect of the Universe" or GAOTU.

The charge is incorrect. On several counts.

First, "Christianity" does not have a case against Freemasonry. SOME Christians and some Christian churches do.

Second, they are mistaken. Masonry does not teach that the gods of all religions are essentially one in the same. It teaches that there IS ONE God which it chooses to call by the term used by John Calvin, "Great Architect of the Universe," so as not to show any preference among the various religions represented in the membership.

While there are many other reasons why Freemasonry is incompatible with biblically Christianity, this syncretistic view of God is the crux of the matter.

It is not syncretist. Masonry teaches that every member ought to be true to his own faith, and it does not say that that one God is the same as any other deity or that all religions are as good as or the same as any other. Just the fact that monotheism is a requirement for membership excludes most of the religions of the world.

For more information on the Masonic View of God and the other irreconcilable differences in the Christian case against Freemasonry visit www.formermasons.org.

Interested readers can find information about that website here:
Mike 'Fishy' Gentry

 

[mcg1102]

I've decided against it.

The biggest problem is that the secretive part. Not only that, they literally kill if those secrets are brought to light. Any secret worth killing over isn't something in line with Christianity.

FP it's good that you decided against it. I finally did too, after practicing it for about 10 years.

That said, I must correct you on something you said. While Masons take oaths of death for revealing its secrets, the ritual states that these oaths are not to be taken "literally, but they are symbolic of what an 'honest' man would rather undergo than to break his solemn vow."

However, as Ex-Masons for Jesus we fear (reverence) God not man, and therefore we're not obligated to an oath which was rendered to us under false pretenses. As far as we are concern, the oaths which we took are null and void. God has released us from them. Leviticus 5:4-6 makes it clear that when something is hidden from a man (in this case, the fact that the teachings of the lodge violate God's Word) and he takes an oath thoughtlessly, he is guilty of sin. When he recognizes it as sin (which we have) he may be released from it by confessing it as such and claiming the promise found in 1 John 1:8-9.

After making an honest assessment of what the Bible teaches vs. what the Lodge taught me via its ritual, coupled with that information being buttressed by the work of well-known Masonic authors, I finally decided to denounce and renounce Freemasonry to glorify Jesus and honor God our Father.

To learn more as to why I and many others have left the Masonic Lodge for the glory of God visit us at www.formermasons.org.

 

[mcg1102]

The charge is incorrect. On several counts.

First, "Christianity" does not have a case against Freemasonry. SOME Christians and some Christian churches do.

Second, they are mistaken. Masonry does not teach that the gods of all religions are essentially one in the same. It teaches that there IS ONE God which it chooses to call by the term used by John Calvin, "Great Architect of the Universe" so as not to show any preference among the various MONOTHEISTIC religions of the membership.


It is not syncretist. Masonry teaches that every member ought to be true to his own faith, and it does not say that that God is the same as any other.

Al, to be disingenuous is one thing, but to be dishonest is quite another. Biblically speaking, Christianity has a case against all other religions, including the Religion of Freemasonry.

Secondly, if the quotes from Grand Lodge documents regarding the Masonic View of God, which are buttressed by statements from prominent Masonic authors shown in that same link are false, please prove them wrong by posting specific quotes from your Masonic ritual and/or from your Grand Lodge that refute these Masonic claims.

Thirdly, John Calvin, in his Institutes of the Christian Religion (1536), repeatedly calls the Christian God "the Architect of the Universe", also referring to his works as "Architecture of the Universe", and in his commentary on Psalm 19 refers to the Christian God as the "Great Architect" or "Architect of the Universe" (The Info List). So he never intended his use of the term to include the various false gods of various MONOTHEISTIC religions; as you imply.

To say that Freemasonry has no preference for the name of any god of other religions, therefore creating a neutral name (GAOTU) so that every member can be true to his own faith, is a classic definition of syncretism.

And for a Christian to kneel to, or stand in a Masonic Lodge and pray corporately with believers in false gods, to an amalgamation of deities, is a clear violation of the first 3 of the 10 Commandments.

 

[Albion]

Al, to be disingenuous is one thing, but to be dishonest is quite another. Biblically speaking, Christianity has a case against all other, including the Religion of Freemasonry.

That's your opinion, that's all. Similar to it is your interpretation of the meaning of the Commandments--"For a Christian to kneel to, or stand in a Masonic Lodge and pray corporately with believers in false gods, to an amalgamation of deities, is a clear violation of the first 3 of the 10 Commandments."

You have never stood for grace before meals in a function attended by people of many denominations, I take it.

To say that Freemasonry has no preference for the name of any god of other religions, therefore creating a neutral name (GAOTU) so that every member can be true to his own faith, is a classic definition of syncretism.

Uh, no. It's not. And to have men of different faiths pray together does not represent any of them praying to "an amalgamation of deities."

Syncretism is "the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion."

 

[timewerx]

FP, I'd probably stay away from Freemasonry if I were you, especially if I wanted to remain a faithful Christian. If we take Freemasonry and Christianity at even just an ideological level, it's not hard to see that these two don't really mix ...

You said yourself that, "[Freemasons] do not show preference towards any religion and accept all as truth. I can see why this would concern Christians, but it seems that the Freemasons are trying to avoid showing favor towards any religion and respecting all equally." Well, despite the apparent "effort" to respect all equally, when Masons say that they "accept all as truth," then they are directly going against at least the first three commandments, not to mention the Shema.

You might want to remember, too, that there is a reason George Washington got up to leave before communion each time he attended the local church with his wife ...

And yes, in the Church, there are Tares among the Wheat. But, what is God's ultimate action going to be against the Tares? We know what the answer to the Tares will be, and it isn't going to be one of "accommodation." Neither should you, as a Christian, accommodate Masonic ideology.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

This reminded me of the Western World's obsession with Political Correctness... But Freemasonry was at it at lot earlier.

 

[mcg1102]

That's your opinion, that's all. Similar to it is your interpretation of the meaning of the Commandments--"For a Christian to kneel to, or stand in a Masonic Lodge and pray corporately with believers in false gods, to an amalgamation of deities, is a clear violation of the first 3 of the 10 Commandments."

You have never stood for grace before meals in a function attended by people of many denominations, I take it.


Uh, no. It's not. And to have men of different faiths pray together does not represent any of them praying to "an amalgamation of deities."

Syncretism is "the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion."

How can the following honestly be interpreted any other way than what God has said?

• I am the LORD thy God.
• Have no other gods before me.
• Worship no graven images or likenesses (Masons bow down to the letter "G" suspended in the East acknowledging GAOTU).

And yes, I have been in such gatherings for meals with people and family members of different faiths. In such cases, I always try to volunteer to say grace, for the following reasons:

"Today our American cultural conditioning toward tolerance flies in the face of God's demand for a radically exclusive relationship with us whenever that cultural conditioning leads us to tolerate the worship of false gods in the presence of Yahweh. As Americans we may (and do) have to tolerate the worship of other gods within civil society; as Christians we violate the First Commandment any time we tolerate or encourage the worship of other gods in the presence of Yahweh.

The only possible conclusion upon reading the Word of God is that the people of God must not be a party to any activity that encourages or promotes the worship of other gods. Thus it is possible to sin against the First Commandment through the toleration of the worship of other gods in the context of the worship of Yahweh. The most common way in which we violate the First Commandment in this regard is to engage in the worship of Yahweh in the context of the worship of other gods in such a way that the worship of the false god and the worship of Yahweh may be confused or mixed. We recognize that a speaker cannot control the way that a hearer interprets his words. Nonetheless, in situations where it is likely that an audience, by virtue of its religiously diverse composition, may equate or confuse the worship of Yahweh with the worship of another god, the speaker has an obligation to articulate the scandal of particularity with unremitting clarity." ~ David L. Adams, PhD at Concordia Seminary​

If I'm not the one praying over the meal, I bow my head and rebuke the evil spirits of the anti-christ and pray to Jesus acknowledging Him as my Lord who provided this meal, and ask that He lead all who are present that do not know Him, would one day come to an accurate and saving knowledge of Him as their Lord and Savior before it's too late when they die. I guarantee you that there is not a "Christian" Mason in the world that does this while in prayer inside a Masonic lodge as they pray with believers of false gods.

Here's a tip for you that can spare you the embarrassment of coming across as ignorant in making a point of definition of one term vs. another: Use a thesaurus in addition to a dictionary. So allow me to encourage you with some insight that syncretism and amalgamation are synonymous.

Finally, as it related to the teachings of Freemasonry, I have NOT expressed MY opinion or interpretation. Unlike you, I've presented their position on their definition of their deity by their own Grand Lodge sources and supported it with statements from well-known Masonic authors that refute your deliberate contradictions.

As requested earlier, if this Masonic position of who or what constitutes "God" is false, then have the Masonic backbone to refute it with Masonic evidence from your own ritual or Grand Lodge documentation, and NOT your personal opinion or interpretation. To refrain from doing so is nothing less than intellectual cowardice or the fear of suffering the penalty of your 'obligations' even though they are not to be taken literally, but symbolically.

Otherwise, if you are a better informed Christian than you are as a Mason, then provide biblical evidence to support your claims as consistent and compatible with biblical Christianity.

It's ultimately your choice big Al.

 

[Albion]

How can the following honestly be interpreted any other way than what God has said?

• I am the LORD thy God.
• Have no other gods before me.
• Worship no graven images or likenesses (Masons bow down to the letter "G" suspended in the East acknowledging GAOTU).

Most Masons are Christians. There are several ordained Methodist ministers who belong to CF and sometimes post on these threads. Do you honestly think that they bow down to any letters 'Gs' (that's actually a new one on me--very funny) or worship them or do not hold the God of the Bible to be the only God?

Really now. Why would anyone just believe the nonsense that someone posts without knowing what happens in a Masonic meeting?

And yes, I have been in such gatherings for meals with people and family members of different faiths. In such cases, I always try to volunteer to say grace, for the following reasons

Very well. There are a couple of possible reasons why a Christian might not choose to belong to Masonry, and the idea of not praying alongside another person who belongs to a different Christian denomination is one. But how many Christians hold to such an extreme interpretation of the Bible? Not many. A minority of Lutherans and some fundamentalists take that view, however. That's their choice.

HOWEVER, THEY ARE FAR FROM BEING THE SPOKESMEN FOR ALL OF CHRISTIANITY. I belong to a different Christian denomination that does not consider it wrong to be standing next to a Baptist or a Catholic when grace is given in an Optimist club's meeting, for instance, or when the invocation is given at a city council meeting.

 

[mcg1102]

Most Masons are Christians. There are several ordained Methodist ministers who belong to CF and sometimes post on these threads. Do you honestly think that they bow down to any letters 'Gs' (that's actually a new one on me--very funny) or worship them or do not hold the God of the Bible to be the only God?

Really now. Why would anyone just believe the nonsense that someone posts without knowing what happens in a Masonic meeting?



Very well. There are a couple of possible reasons why a Christian might not choose to belong to Masonry, and the idea of not praying alongside another person who belongs to a different Christian denomination is one. But how many Christians hold to such an extreme interpretation of the Bible? Not many. A minority of Lutherans and some fundamentalists take that view, however. That's their choice.

HOWEVER, THEY ARE FAR FROM BEING THE SPOKESMEN FOR ALL OF CHRISTIANITY. I belong to a different Christian denomination that does not consider it wrong to be standing next to a Baptist or a Catholic when grace is given in an Optimist club's meeting, for instance, or when the invocation is given at a city council meeting.

Al there you go again sharing your thoughts and opinions without a shred of Masonic evidence to support your claims. Yet I have.

Maybe you can't provide it because you're not a Mason. Or maybe you can't provide it because if you are a Mason, you know damn well the Masonic evidence to support your lies doesn't exist!

The fact that some Christians and ministers are members of the Lodge doesn't vindicate Freemasonry. They're just duped like many of us were who have left the cult for Jesus.

Furthermore, I wasn't talking about various Christian denominations gathered together in the Lodge. Of course they all worship the same God.

I'm talking about Masonry as a whole, where in many lodges in the USA and around the world, are made up of members from different religions (Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Satanists, etc.).

When they take their oaths, for the first 3 degrees of Freemasonry, they kneel at a Masonic altar facing the East, where the letter "G" is suspended, which represents the god of Freemasonry known as GAOTU.

This is similar to a church where behind the altar is suspended a cross, representing Jesus.

To claim this isn't true without providing Masonic evidence to refute it means you are lying or have no clue as to what you are talking about.

If you are a Mason, what Grand Lodge are you proud enough to tell us you're from?

 

[Albion]

Al there you go again sharing your thoughts and opinions without a shred of Masonic evidence to support your claims. Yet I have.

No, you haven't; you've made allegations. And it's you making these bizarre claims so the burden is on you to establish any credibility.

Furthermore, I wasn't talking about various Christian denominations gathered together in the Lodge. Of course they all worship the same God.

Then your claim has just evaporated.

This is how the deception works. You said that Masons bow down to the letter G and you used the word worship for it--"bow down" and "worship."

Worship no graven images or likenesses (Masons bow down to the letter "G" suspended in the East acknowledging GAOTU).

But when challenged, you were forced to retreat to a revised version of the charge, changing it to say that initiates are in a kneeling position, not bowing, when they make their promises and that they are facing in the direction of the Masonic G on a far wall. Of course they are primarily facing the Bible and the master of the lodge who is administering the "oath." They're not bowing down to or worshipping anyone or any thing. There are big differences in all of this.

 

[mcg1102]

No, you haven't; you've made allegations. And it's you making these bizarre claims so the burden is on you to establish any credibility.

Then your claim has just evaporated.

This is how the deception works. You said that Masons bow down to the letter God and used the word worship for it--"bow down" and "worship."

But when challenged, you were forced to retreat to a revised version of the chatgen r

Do you really think readers of this thread aren't paying attention to the sequence of posts, where I've supported my claims with Masonic evidence and you have not? Allow me to expose your lie about Masons not bowing down to the letter "G" which represents the Masonic God GAOTU.

"Most Holy and Glorious Lord God, the Great Architect of the Universe (GAOTU)...

Behold the letter G, suspended in the East! ...

The letter G, to which your attention was directed on your passage hither, has a still greater and more significant meaning. It is the initial of the grand and sacred name of God, before whom all Masons, from the youngest Entered Apprentice who stands in the Northeast corner of the Lodge, to the Worshipful Master who presides in the East, should most humbly, reverently, and devoutly bow." ~ Fellowcraft Degree (the 2nd degree of Freemasonry) Grand Lodge of Nevada​

Also, are you now asserting that Freemasonry only consists of members who profess to be Christians, knowing perfectly well that it is a multi-faith religious fraternity? If so, you've been caught in another one of your lies, because you stated earlier that the term GAOTU is used "so as not to show any preference among the various religions represented in the membership."

I'm done dealing with your deceitfulness and blatant lies. You are a waste of my time.

 

[Albion]

Also, are you now asserting that Freemasonry only consists of members who profess to be Christians, knowing perfectly well that it is a multi-faith religious fraternity?

In the great majority of lodges there are no Muslims or Buddhists, etc. and you know it. In other countries, if they are all Muslims, for example, and use the Koran, it's nothing to me because I am not involved, not any more than if I were a member of the Boy Scouts.

But on the other hand, I notice that you sidestepped the bigger issue which is that there are very few Christians who are of the opinion that it's worshipping a false god to stand for a prayer offered at the start of a political or civic meeting or sporting event involving members of the public of who-knows-what religious convictions. And I seriously doubt that you refuse to do this yourself.

Those few Christians who make something out of this peculiar interpretation of Scripture answer to their own convictions. They do not speak for Christianity or other Christians.

As for the other thing...

Behold the letter G, suspended in the East! ...

The letter G, to which your attention was directed on your passage hither, has a still greater and more significant meaning. It is the initial of the grand and sacred name of God, before whom all Masons, from the youngest Entered Apprentice who stands in the Northeast corner of the Lodge, to the Worshipful Master who presides in the East, should most humbly, reverently, and devoutly bow." ~ Fellowcraft Degree (the 2nd degree of Freemasonry) Grand Lodge of Nevada

As you know, what the Grand Lodge of Nevada does is its own business and is not applicable to any other state or to Masonry generally. What's more, you haven't shown a thing that would substantiate the claim that any worship is going on or that an initiate actually does any bowing which, of course, they do not.

Symbolic, historic, language is to be found all over Masonic ceremonies, very little of which is taken in a literal sense by anyone and, in fact, the initiate is normally advised that it is not to be taken that way.

 

[mcg1102]

As you know, what the Grand Lodge of Nevada does is its own business and is not applicable to any other state or to Masonry generally.

The Grand Lodge of Nevada is recognized by all other Grand Lodges in the USA and the UGLE.

Which means what they teach, including that of GAOTU and the letter "G" is considered legitimate and acceptable teaching among ALL regular Masonic jurisdictions by whom they are recognized.

Does your Grand Lodge recognize the GL of Nevada? If so, your claim has just been evaporated. #poof!

 

[Sammy-San]

The problem being is that in trying to not put any religion above others, you must then end up denying the fact that only through Jesus is one saved. As a Freemason, you can never say test. In other words, eventually, you must deny that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and that He alone died for our sins. Are you willing to do that?? Even if everything else they did would be great and very humanitarian, are you willing to deny Christ to be with them? Or would you end up hearing these words:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Is it true freemasonry is devil worship or that is a lie? Freemasonry: A Luciferian Beacon

 

[Albion]

Is it true freemasonry is devil worship or that is a lie? Freemasonry: A Luciferian Beacon

It's a lie. For one thing, Masons don't conduct any worship services at all, so the claim that it does (as in the link you referred us to) is wrong right there. And the claim that there is some Lucifer that Masons supposedly worship is wrong in addition because the only source for that accusation is one comment that has been shown to be bogus. Look up Leo Taxil, the forger, if you want additional info. Or, you could take a look at post 46 in this thread for additional information about this too.

 

[Sammy-San]

It's a lie. For one thing, Masons don't conduct any worship services at all, so the claim that it does (as in the link you referred us to) is wrong right there. And the claim that there is some Lucifer that Masons supposedly worship is wrong in addition because the only source for that accusation is one comment that has been shown to be bogus. Look up Leo Taxil, the forger, if you want additional info. Or, you could take a look at post 46 in this thread for additional information about this too.

Worship doesnt mean worship services in a Christian sense-singing songs.

Luciferianism – What is it?

Witchcraft is directly condemned in Galatians 5:20. Allowing Satan or any of his demons to give you power, information, or protection, or to even communicate with them beyond ordering them to desist or remove themselves from a particular place as part of spiritual warfare through the Holy Spirit is both sinful and unwise.

Isn't that a form of worship?

 

[Albion]

Worship doesnt mean worship services in a Christian sense-singing songs.

Very well, but there is no worship.

Luciferianism – What is it?
Isn't that a form of worship?

It probably is, but it has nothing to do with Masonry.

 

[Sammy-San]

Very well, but there is no worship.


It probably is, but it has nothing to do with Masonry.

How is something worship if there is no praise or adoration? Am I just getting into semantics?

 

[Albion]

How is something worship if there is no praise or adoration? Am I just getting into semantics?

I made no attempt to analyze the "Luciferianism" described in that link, but it did refer to certain doings as "worship" in a number of places. Therfore, I said that it may be worship. If so, it still has nothing to do with Masonry, which is what we'd been discussing.

 

[Sammy-San]

I made no attempt to analyze the "Luciferianism" described in that link, but it did refer to certain doings as "worship" in a number of places. Therfore, I said that it may be worship. If so, it still has nothing to do with Masonry, which is what we'd been discussing.

What about Bill Schnebolen's claims on Masonry?

 

[Albion]

What about Bill Schnebolen's claims on Masonry?

What claims are you referring to?