Freemason

[Carey]

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...e_refused.html


At the link they reference a writing by Mather called “Kabbalah Unveiled” and here is the quote:

"The Kabbalah was first taught by God himself to a select company of angels, who formed a theosophic school in Paradise. After the Fall the angels most graciously communicated this heavenly doctrine to the disobedient child of earth, to furnish the protoplasts with the means of returning to their pristine nobility and felicity. From Adam it passed over to Noah, and then to Abraham, the friend of God, who emigrated with it to Egypt, where the patriarch allowed a portion of this mysterious doctrine to ooze out. It was in this way that the Egyptians obtained some knowledge of it, and the other Eastern nations could introduce it into their philosophical systems…..”

Is it any wonder that they study ancient Egypt, Eastern religions, the Kaballah and the occult? They are trying to get back the "wisdom" that the fallen angels taught mankind.


Here is the author’s (32 degree Freemason named Peters) conclusion:

“Whatever the original provenance and impetus of Freemasonry, it seems clear that encoded within the rituals is a profound doctrine of spiritual illumination or Gnosis. With the application of tools such as gematria, isopsophy, temurah and notariqon, a wealth of otherwise hidden wisdom begins to reveal itself. Applying the lamp of focused consciousness on these symbols, the treasure chest opens.

Symbols may be thought of as a living, dynamic centers of energy. By focusing on them and taking them into deep contemplation, this energy is unlocked from within, revealing the Royal Art as a series of signposts in consciousness. By following these signs into meditation, we may eventually come away with a further, profounder understanding of ourselves and our position in the universe.”

Scary, huh?

Yeah, avoid them like the plague. They are not seeking the One True Living God. It's the modern day version of Babel.

But would not the decieved Masons fit into this catagory??

Mark 2 : 13Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 17On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

 

[HisdaughterJen]

But would not the decieved Masons fit into this catagory??

Mark 2 : 13Once again Jesus went out beside the lake. A large crowd came to him, and he began to teach them. 14As he walked along, he saw Levi son of Alphaeus sitting at the tax collector's booth. "Follow me," Jesus told him, and Levi got up and followed him.

15While Jesus was having dinner at Levi's house, many tax collectors and "sinners" were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the "sinners" and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: "Why does he eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 17On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Yes and no.

Yes, in that everyone is a sinner and needs Christ.

No, in that becoming a Freemason starts out being about "joining a club" that can "get you somewhere" in life. Freemasons swear oaths to each other and to the club. They have secret handshakes so that they can identify each other as well as other "signals". If you think about it, what's the purpose of that? ...so you can expect preferential treatment because of your "brotherly" affiliation.

Then, they get into the Masonic tracing boards, symbolism, rituals and "esoteric" or "occultic" knowledge.

Elijah, Elisha, Moses, Jesus and all the disciples and many others all walked in the power of God. They did miraculous, supernatural things through the power of God.

The Freemasons are trying to attain the knowledge, energy and power of the supernatural while denying the One True Living God and even striving to be God.

It's what happened in the Garden, after the Flood, Babel, and NOW! Satan and his pals are still trying to bring down humanity (through pride)with their incomplete knowledge....the very same knowledge that hurt humanity in ALL of those situations.

Wait on the Lord. He gives of His perfect power to those who have trained themselves to walk in love and obedience to Him. The Freemasons and their affiliated "secret societies" of the "higher degrees" are the thief that is trying to steal what does not belong to them.

It is also a picture of the "abilities" of the anti-christ.

Dan 8:25And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Jester4kicks]

No, in that becoming a Freemason starts out being about "joining a club" that can "get you somewhere" in life.

Incorrect.

Freemasons swear oaths to each other and to the club. They have secret handshakes so that they can identify each other as well as other "signals".

Correct. Although there isn't much that is actually "secret" anymore. Just about everything can be found online or in a bookstore these days.

If you think about it, what's the purpose of that? ...so you can expect preferential treatment because of your "brotherly" affiliation.

If you were to meet a stranger on the street, wouldn't you be a little more comfortable with them if they were wearing a cross and some kind of jesus shirt? Wouldn't that help you to quickly identify them as sharing some of the same values you do? Why do you think it's any different for a mason?

Then, they get into the Masonic tracing boards, symbolism, rituals and "esoteric" or "occultic" knowledge.

Mostly incorrect. I've already told you about tracing boards, and you still seem to think there is something sinister about them. I've answered every possible question you could have about masonic symbols and rituals (rites)... and I've repeatedly countered every argument you've put forth about the supposed "occultic" knowledge.

Elijah, Elisha, Moses, Jesus and all the disciples and many others all walked in the power of God. They did miraculous, supernatural things through the power of God.

The Freemasons are trying to attain the knowledge, energy and power of the supernatural while denying the One True Living God and even striving to be God.

Incorrect.

It's what happened in the Garden, after the Flood, Babel, and NOW! Satan and his pals are still trying to bring down humanity (through pride)with their incomplete knowledge....the very same knowledge that hurt humanity in ALL of those situations.

Wait on the Lord. He gives of His perfect power to those who have trained themselves to walk in love and obedience to Him. The Freemasons and their affiliated "secret societies" of the "higher degrees" are the thief that is trying to steal what does not belong to them.

Once again, incorrect... although you're showing those same conspiracy-theorist attitudes that you had in the other thread. I don't mind it as much anymore. I've come to realize that there are folks here that just love to fear things and think the worst... and there are folks here that see right through ramblings such as yours.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Incorrect.



Correct. Although there isn't much that is actually "secret" anymore. Just about everything can be found online or in a bookstore these days.



If you were to meet a stranger on the street, wouldn't you be a little more comfortable with them if they were wearing a cross and some kind of jesus shirt? Wouldn't that help you to quickly identify them as sharing some of the same values you do? Why do you think it's any different for a mason?



Mostly incorrect. I've already told you about tracing boards, and you still seem to think there is something sinister about them. I've answered every possible question you could have about masonic symbols and rituals (rites)... and I've repeatedly countered every argument you've put forth about the supposed "occultic" knowledge.



Incorrect.



Once again, incorrect... although you're showing those same conspiracy-theorist attitudes that you had in the other thread. I don't mind it as much anymore. I've come to realize that there are folks here that just love to fear things and think the worst... and there are folks here that see right through ramblings such as yours.

Hello again!

YOU have admitted to being a 3rd degree Freemason. There are higher degrees available if you pursue them through other Rites.

http://www.masoniclight.org/degrees.html


http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/ward_HD_handbook.html

"We thus see that anything Christian was eliminated from the lower degrees, and this explains the probable origin of some of the higher degrees."

"Conclusion
Thus it will be seen that practically all the degrees in Freemasonry have a definite lesson to teach, and an inner meaning to their ceremonies. Some, no doubt are more important than others....but the man that has never gone beyond the craft still has much to learn. He has made no real effort to recover that which was lost, and therefore has signally failed to make a daily advancement in Masonic knowledge. If he has not time to take all the degrees, at least let him try to take his second degree by taking the Mark, and obtain one answer to the question of lost, by taking his Royal Arch."



As far as the Masonic tracing boards go...

http://masonictraveler.blogspot.com/2007/08/second-degree-tracing-board.html


"In the image there are many symbolic and esoteric interpretations. With adapting this work, the most significant change is the positional change of the viewer, moving from an external passive observer to the primary participant actively engaged in the activity. This changing position positions the initiated as if within mirror from the reflector to the reflection. This movement inward becomes the focus of the degree, passive to active moving the self towards the divine."

"As above ... so below

This site is dedicated to the further discovery of Light within Freemasonry. Its goal and purpose is to pursue a personal understanding of the divine in the context of the relativism of man and his nihilistic individuality. "




Notice how "Light" in the above quote is capitalized!!???

"It's goal and purpose is to pursue a personal understanding of the divine in the context of the relativism of man and his nihilistic individuality."......hmmmm...... I thought you said it was just a fraternal organization that does charity work????

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philisophical position which argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

Sounds like something SATAN (a fallen angel) would say about humans....

 

[Jester4kicks]

Hello again!

YOU have admitted to being a 3rd degree Freemason. There are higher degrees available if you pursue them through other Rites.

http://www.masoniclight.org/degrees.html


http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/ward_HD_handbook.html

"We thus see that anything Christian was eliminated from the lower degrees, and this explains the probable origin of some of the higher degrees."

"Conclusion
Thus it will be seen that practically all the degrees in Freemasonry have a definite lesson to teach, and an inner meaning to their ceremonies. Some, no doubt are more important than others....but the man that has never gone beyond the craft still has much to learn. He has made no real effort to recover that which was lost, and therefore has signally failed to make a daily advancement in Masonic knowledge. If he has not time to take all the degrees, at least let him try to take his second degree by taking the Mark, and obtain one answer to the question of lost, by taking his Royal Arch."

And once again, you're back to referencing individual essays, written by individual masons. As I've explained before, no single person speaks for all of Freemasonry.

Oh... and to correct you, once again, the additional degrees are not "higher" degrees. They just represent additional lessons available after a mason has been made a master mason.

As far as the Masonic tracing boards go...

http://masonictraveler.blogspot.com/2007/08/second-degree-tracing-board.html


"In the image there are many symbolic and esoteric interpretations. With adapting this work, the most significant change is the positional change of the viewer, moving from an external passive observer to the primary participant actively engaged in the activity. This changing position positions the initiated as if within mirror from the reflector to the reflection. This movement inward becomes the focus of the degree, passive to active moving the self towards the divine."

"As above ... so below

This site is dedicated to the further discovery of Light within Freemasonry. Its goal and purpose is to pursue a personal understanding of the divine in the context of the relativism of man and his nihilistic individuality. "

Notice how "Light" in the above quote is capitalized!!???

"It's goal and purpose is to pursue a personal understanding of the divine in the context of the relativism of man and his nihilistic individuality."......hmmmm...... I thought you said it was just a fraternal organization that does charity work????

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philisophical position which argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

Sounds like something SATAN (a fallen angel) would say about humans....

You really should pay more attention. The image he was referring to wasn't even a historic tracing board. It was just a piece of art the he produced.

As for everything that came after the "as above... so below" line.... you'd have to ask the author of the website. Scroll down a bit and you'll see where he specifically said the website was not published, or even influenced, by any Grand Lodge.

Furthermore, when he said, "This site is dedicated to the further discovery of Light within Freemasonry. Its goal and purpose is to pursue a personal understanding of the divine in the context of the relativism of man and his nihilistic individuality", unless he made a major grammatical mistake, the second sentence refers to the purpose of HIS WEBSITE... NOT Freemasonry itself.

Please read your own sources before attempting to use them.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

And once again, you're back to referencing individual essays, written by individual masons. As I've explained before, no single person speaks for all of Freemasonry.

Oh... and to correct you, once again, the additional degrees are not "higher" degrees. They just represent additional lessons available after a mason has been made a master mason.



You really should pay more attention. The image he was referring to wasn't even a historic tracing board. It was just a piece of art the he produced.

As for everything that came after the "as above... so below" line.... you'd have to ask the author of the website. Scroll down a bit and you'll see where he specifically said the website was not published, or even influenced, by any Grand Lodge.

Furthermore, when he said, "This site is dedicated to the further discovery of Light within Freemasonry. Its goal and purpose is to pursue a personal understanding of the divine in the context of the relativism of man and his nihilistic individuality", unless he made a major grammatical mistake, the second sentence refers to the purpose of HIS WEBSITE... NOT Freemasonry itself.

Please read your own sources before attempting to use them.

It's a bit more than that Jester...

"The First Degree Tracing boards were created as visual aids used to illustrate the meanings and principals of Freemasonry as taught within the degrees. Much of the symbolism is from the Western tradition, and has been adapted here for the modern mason.

In the image there are many symbolic and esoteric interpretations. With adapting this work, the most significant change is the positional change of the viewer, moving from an external passive observer to the primary participant actively engaged in the activity. This changing position positions the initiated as if within mirror from the reflector to the reflection. This movement inward becomes the focus of the degree, passive to active moving the self towards the divine."

 

[Jester4kicks]

It's a bit more than that Jester...

"The First Degree Tracing boards were created as visual aids used to illustrate the meanings and principals of Freemasonry as taught within the degrees. Much of the symbolism is from the Western tradition, and has been adapted here for the modern mason.

In the image there are many symbolic and esoteric interpretations. With adapting this work, the most significant change is the positional change of the viewer, moving from an external passive observer to the primary participant actively engaged in the activity. This changing position positions the initiated as if within mirror from the reflector to the reflection. This movement inward becomes the focus of the degree, passive to active moving the self towards the divine."

You're still citing ONE person's website, and the description that ONE person provided for their OWN artistic piece.

As I stated before, the author of the website even said that his website was not sponsored or influenced by any Grand Lodge.

It would be like some random person painting a picture of the birth of jesus, but changing the setting to a great temple. It might be their own artistic interpretation, or it might be the artist's way of conveying something else... but it certainly wouldn't be accepted by all christians... and it certainly wouldn't be used as some kind of reference to what actually happened.

 

[SonOfGodAlmighty]

Personally i am convinced the elite 32 and 33 degree masons have a completely differant agenda, then what they show the public. Alot of people i know see the good things masons do. They get articles in the newspaper with pictures showing shriners taking money to donate to St.Jude, which primarily works with young cancer patients. The Masons have a good public image, which i think is necessary for them to be able to carry out that darkside which few know about. Unless your an elite mason, you really dont have any idea of what the true agenda of the society is, you are kept in ignorance. If you read "Morals and Dogma" which is a standard book in masonry, only alotted to the higher degrees, it wouldnt take much reading to clearly see masons are truly evil. It is specified without a doubt they are involved with luciferion worship. Even their ceremonys are full with symbolism pertaining to satanic things.

HERE IS A LINK TO AN EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE VIDEO ABOUT SECRET SOCIETIES, ORIGINS, AND HOW THEY FUNCTION TODAY. MASONS BEING THE PRIMARY FOCUS-

P.S - Seeing i only have 25 posts, the thread wont let me put a link to the video. However its easy to find online. Google "walter vieth - secret behind secret societies" . There is one on AOL that is full length (which is around 1 hr. 30 min.) their are others listed on google with 10min run time, i wouldnt recommend those..obviously

 

[Jester4kicks]

Personally i am convinced the elite 32 and 33 degree masons have a completely differant agenda, then what they show the public. Alot of people i know see the good things masons do. They get articles in the newspaper with pictures showing shriners taking money to donate to St.Jude, which primarily works with young cancer patients. The Masons have a good public image, which i think is necessary for them to be able to carry out that darkside which few know about. Unless your an elite mason, you really dont have any idea of what the true agenda of the society is, you are kept in ignorance. If you read "Morals and Dogma" which is a standard book in masonry, only alotted to the higher degrees, it wouldnt take much reading to clearly see masons are truly evil. It is specified without a doubt they are involved with luciferion worship. Even their ceremonys are full with symbolism pertaining to satanic things.

HERE IS A LINK TO AN EXTREMELY INFORMATIVE VIDEO ABOUT SECRET SOCIETIES, ORIGINS, AND HOW THEY FUNCTION TODAY. MASONS BEING THE PRIMARY FOCUS-

P.S - Seeing i only have 25 posts, the thread wont let me put a link to the video. However its easy to find online. Google "walter vieth - secret behind secret societies" . There is one on AOL that is full length (which is around 1 hr. 30 min.) their are others listed on google with 10min run time, i wouldnt recommend those..obviously

Just so I understand this... the masons are this evil organization, but only the highest-"level" masons know about it.... but you know about it? How exactly does that work?

Oh, and to correct you, Morals and Dogma is not a "standard" book in Freemasonry. If you want to know the truth about Albert Pike, here's a basic background covering him and his writings, including Morals and Dogma: http://www.masonicinfo.com/pike.htm.

As for your allegations about lucifer, could you provide examples where masonic rituals are "full of symbolism pertaining to satanic things"?

As for your video, I can't view it from work... but is this the same video where Walter Vieth alleged that the United Nations were involved in the occult, magic, and sorcery? I believe he tried to say that the UN was trying to establish a new world order and a single world religion...

...if that doesn't set off your "what?!" alarm... I'm not sure what will.

Conspiracy theories are fun... but they're rarely even remotely-close to the boring truth.

 

[SonOfGodAlmighty]

Your so right, i should just take everything from the freemason website as pure facts. Shouldve went there earlier, couldve avoided looking like someone who questions things. Walter Vieth however is an intelligent man, not deceiving. His work is based upon investigation instead of speculation. He is very articulate in his presentation, and quotes every peice of literature he speaks upon. You tried to write him off as an alarmist, whos primary objective is to make accusations of witchcraft and sorcery. I may be wrong, i may be buying into theories that are completely illegitimate. However i would rather embrace conspiracy, then presume every organization including MASONS is completely honest about their interworkings, with-in the society. Especially, since secrecy and controversy is synonamous with the very word "FREE-MASON" . You may say, "Read the website, it clears everything up" I say read the literature yourself, before assuming you've been told the truth about it.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Your so right, i should just take everything from the freemason website as pure facts. Shouldve went there earlier, couldve avoided looking like someone who questions things. Walter Vieth however is an intelligent man, not deceiving. His work is based upon investigation instead of speculation. He is very articulate in his presentation, and quotes every peice of literature he speaks upon. You tried to write him off as an alarmist, whos primary objective is to make accusations of witchcraft and sorcery. I may be wrong, i may be buying into theories that are completely illegitimate. However i would rather embrace conspiracy, then presume every organization including MASONS is completely honest about their interworkings, with-in the society. Especially, since secrecy and controversy is synonamous with the very word "FREE-MASON" . You may say, "Read the website, it clears everything up" I say read the literature yourself, before assuming you've been told the truth about it.

Well if it's secrecy that you're concerned about... what is it you'd like to know? There isn't much that is really secret anymore. Just about everything is out there somewhere. The only thing that I've found hasn't been completely discussed is how to identify yourself as a mason. Many books list the different signs, etc... but none actually tell you everything you would need to know if you wanted to attend a lodge.

As for literature, I've read a lot of it... but I'm not sure if anyone could truly read every little thing that has ever been written about Freemasonry... there's simply too much to read about it. Is there something specific that you need me to address or turn my attention to?

 

[SonOfGodAlmighty]

Okay, ive been thinking about the freemasons, and our discussion. Its obvious you are a pro mason. Wether its from experience as a mason, having a relative, or friend thats a mason, or maybe through extensive research, you've taken up sides with the Masons. Not saying however you agree with everything they are and stand for, but in general you dont consider the society to be, the all encompassing (evil)power others give them credit for being. Just to put us on an even playing field, lets say the FREEMASONS have no agendas what so ever, they are all good men, with good intentions, primarily the well being of not only its members, but the communities in which each lodge is located. Masons must believe in a diety correct? However the bible is not the standard in which each member must observe. Many of the FREEMASON principles arent even christian, or of any other religion, but of philosophy. Wisdom of men, is for the most part the governing law in which the members abide by. Im a firm believer in the wisdom of men being foolishness to God. Based on this observance alone i am justified in saying FREEMASONS are enemys of God.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Okay, ive been thinking about the freemasons, and our discussion. Its obvious you are a pro mason. Wether its from experience as a mason, having a relative, or friend thats a mason, or maybe through extensive research, you've taken up sides with the Masons. Not saying however you agree with everything they are and stand for, but in general you dont consider the society to be, the all encompassing (evil)power others give them credit for being. Just to put us on an even playing field, lets say the FREEMASONS have no agendas what so ever, they are all good men, with good intentions, primarily the well being of not only its members, but the communities in which each lodge is located. Masons must believe in a diety correct? However the bible is not the standard in which each member must observe. Many of the FREEMASON principles arent even christian, or of any other religion, but of philosophy. Wisdom of men, is for the most part the governing law in which the members abide by. Im a firm believer in the wisdom of men being foolishness to God. Based on this observance alone i am justified in saying FREEMASONS are enemys of God.

Ok, well to clear a few things up.

First, I'm a mason, and my grandfather is a mason.

Second, you are correct when you say that there is no "agenda", although Freemasonry itself encourages community service and philanthropy. At my lodge, we regularly donate money to local community programs, the local sheriff's office's drug-awareness program, as well as various other programs such as our college scholarship award.

Belief in deity is a central requirement for being a mason, however religion is not discussed within a lodge (politics is the other subject not allowed within a lodge). Freemasonry is not about various religious faiths, the belief in deity is just a central value.

As for the "wisdom of men"... I'm not sure what you mean. Freemasonry teaches standard values such as honesty, integrity, charity, respect, and equality. Is this the "wisdom of men" that you are referring to? Aren't these values taught in any number of other forms, including religious beliefs?

 

[SonOfGodAlmighty]

Jester, your a mason, im not. It will stay that way, unless you decide being a free mason isnt for you. As a christian i understand its necessary for me to display characteristics of a christan. Some you've listed: honesty, charity, respect, equality. However i dont feel it necessary to join a society of men ,of whom im not aware of how they stand with God, to pursue the ability to show forth these traits. In public i would much rather be representing Christ, and giving him the glory for good works, instead of giving the MASON name honor by good deeds that are done. Out of every peice of FREEMASON publicity i have ever seen, not once can i say any mason ,interviewed for publishing purposes, has ever given thanks to God. Even if in a particular instance a member has openly praised and given thanks to God, the majority of members give the honor they recieve for their works to the organization, thus raising its stature in the eyes of men. I sincerely hope your as adamant about convincing your fellow masons about the goodness of God, as you are trying to convince your fellow christians about the goodness of FREEMASONS

 

[Jester4kicks]

Jester, your a mason, im not. It will stay that way, unless you decide being a free mason isnt for you. As a christian i understand its necessary for me to display characteristics of a christan. Some you've listed: honesty, charity, respect, equality. However i dont feel it necessary to join a society of men ,of whom im not aware of how they stand with God, to pursue the ability to show forth these traits. In public i would much rather be representing Christ, and giving him the glory for good works, instead of giving the MASON name honor by good deeds that are done. Out of every peice of FREEMASON publicity i have ever seen, not once can i say any mason ,interviewed for publishing purposes, has ever given thanks to God. Even if in a particular instance a member has openly praised and given thanks to God, the majority of members give the honor they recieve for their works to the organization, thus raising its stature in the eyes of men. I sincerely hope your as adamant about convincing your fellow masons about the goodness of God, as you are trying to convince your fellow christians about the goodness of FREEMASONS

I never said you had to be a mason to believe in the values I listed. Personally, I'm glad you've found a way to be a good person, regardless of how you did it. I certainly am not trying to get you to join the masons, nor could I. Masons don't recruit, new members must apply on their own.

As for who good deeds are done for... just some food for thought: Since masons are encouraged toward civil and community service, and since they are also encouraged to develop their spirituality, I would venture a guess that at least some of the men that you see giving glory to god, are also masons.

However, if you need to see reverence for god from a person acting as a mason... find out when your local lodge is having a community dinner. I can almost guarantee that there will be a prayer said (usually the blessing before everyone starts eating). In that prayer, I can almost promise that thanks will be given to god... and if the master of the lodge is wearing the hat of his office, he will remove it (either for the entire blessing, or when he refers to god).

As for me telling me fellow masons about the goodness of god, I would never presume to do such a thing. Aside from the fact that religion and politics can not be discussed within a lodge, I personally don't think it's right to tell someone else what to believe. Furthermore, I'm not a christian (gasp!), so I doubt anything I said would be representative of your own views anyway.

Bottom line, I'm not here to make you a mason... but I am here to clarify some of the things that you, and others, might be confused about in regard to Freemasonry. I do this because I can almost promise you that, if you asked, you would probably find out that some of the men in your own congregation are masons... and I would hate to see you form a negative opinion of them just because you don't understand what Freemasonry is.

Travel well.

 

[SonOfGodAlmighty]

My good friend Jester, if they said a prayer at a community dinner, what would it matter? How would i know what god we were praying to? I suppose i would just take the words of the prayer and apply them to the God i believe in. Its been nice conversing with you, this will be my last post concerning our discussion. I believe we have come to a stalemate, and i have instructions not to argue over such menial things. Good luck to you my friend, i dont say this out of sarcasm. Your just 26 and have alot of life left to enjoy, with alot of things to learn. Its obvious to me you are intelligent, able to reason, to use logic...I would like to hear of you applying it to worthy causes throughout your life. Have no doubt though, if you dont take advantage of salvation offered by God through Jesus Christ, you will be judged accordingly. No matter how many works you performed that have beneficial, the masons cant save you from judgement. In the last day masons who neglected God in pursuit of Mason recognition will perish. Dont be fooled, there is no otherway besides the blood of Jesus. There is no alternative. There seems to be a growing trend today that says "although we may not believe the same, or even in the same god, we will all get to the place in which our god takes us" Meaning no matter what you believe were all bound for the same fate. I dont think your ignorant of these facts, i dont think your unlearned in what you need to believe. Im not trying to teach you anything, just hope you have firm understanding that there is no other way.

 

[Jester4kicks]

My good friend Jester, if they said a prayer at a community dinner, what would it matter? How would i know what god we were praying to? I suppose i would just take the words of the prayer and apply them to the God i believe in. Its been nice conversing with you, this will be my last post concerning our discussion. I believe we have come to a stalemate, and i have instructions not to argue over such menial things. Good luck to you my friend, i dont say this out of sarcasm. Your just 26 and have alot of life left to enjoy, with alot of things to learn. Its obvious to me you are intelligent, able to reason, to use logic...I would like to hear of you applying it to worthy causes throughout your life. Have no doubt though, if you dont take advantage of salvation offered by God through Jesus Christ, you will be judged accordingly. No matter how many works you performed that have beneficial, the masons cant save you from judgement. In the last day masons who neglected God in pursuit of Mason recognition will perish. Dont be fooled, there is no otherway besides the blood of Jesus. There is no alternative. There seems to be a growing trend today that says "although we may not believe the same, or even in the same god, we will all get to the place in which our god takes us" Meaning no matter what you believe were all bound for the same fate. I dont think your ignorant of these facts, i dont think your unlearned in what you need to believe. Im not trying to teach you anything, just hope you have firm understanding that there is no other way.

A stalemate suggests you offered some kind of counterpoint that could not be addressed.

Anyway, I've heard the same bit from several people here... and it's nice and sweet (in its own way)... but I've been there, done that, and I really have no interest in it at this point.

Oh... and as for age... aren't you just 22?

Regardless, my goal was to clarify some confusion you had about the masons... and since your posts turned from them, toward me, I think I've at least partly achieved that goal.

Travel well.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

A stalemate suggests you offered some kind of counterpoint that could not be addressed.

Anyway, I've heard the same bit from several people here... and it's nice and sweet (in its own way)... but I've been there, done that, and I really have no interest in it at this point.

Oh... and as for age... aren't you just 22?

Regardless, my goal was to clarify some confusion you had about the masons... and since your posts turned from them, toward me, I think I've at least partly achieved that goal.

Travel well.

You are here to OBFUSCATE.



Definitions of obfuscate on the Web:

• [SIZE=-1]
• make obscure or unclear [/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]
• Obfuscation is the concealment of meaning in communication, making it confusing and harder to interpret. [/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscate[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]
• To make dark; overshadow; To deliberately make more confusing in order to conceal the truth; To alter code while preserving its behavior but conceal its structure and intent [/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obfuscate[/SIZE]

The symbolism of Freemasons speaks volumes about the intent and it's not benevolent.

You once said that the pyramid with the eye is symbolic simply of quality craftsmanship. That's the biggest piece of baloney I've seen in quite a while especially when a person digs around for the truth and starts putting two and two together. The Freemasons are seeking the knowledge of the fallen angels by digging around in ancient world religions for the sole purpose of by-passing God for power. It's BABEL! The agenda is to rise above the ONE TRUE LIVING GOD. The symbolism is found in the occult, the Kaballah, ancient Eastern religions and ancient Egyptian religions...so anyone can discover the meaning.

So, either you are uninformed or you are obfuscating.

 

[Jester4kicks]

You are here to OBFUSCATE.




Definitions of obfuscate on the Web:

• [SIZE=-1]
• make obscure or unclear [/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]
• Obfuscation is the concealment of meaning in communication, making it confusing and harder to interpret. [/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscate[/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]
• To make dark; overshadow; To deliberately make more confusing in order to conceal the truth; To alter code while preserving its behavior but conceal its structure and intent [/SIZE]
  [SIZE=-1]en.wiktionary.org/wiki/obfuscate[/SIZE]

The symbolism of Freemasons speaks volumes about the intent and it's not benevolent.

You once said that the pyramid with the eye is symbolic simply of quality craftsmanship. That's the biggest piece of baloney I've seen in quite a while especially when a person digs around for the truth and starts putting two and two together. The Freemasons are seeking the knowledge of the fallen angels by digging around in ancient world religions for the sole purpose of by-passing God for power. It's BABEL! The agenda is to rise above the ONE TRUE LIVING GOD. The symbolism is found in the occult, the Kaballah, ancient Eastern religions and ancient Egyptian religions...so anyone can discover the meaning.

So, either you are uninformed or you are obfuscating.

Actually, I said that the symbol of the pyramid with the all-seeing eye represented the precise achitectural achievement of man, under the all-seeing eye of god.

Do you have reason to believe it represents something else?

I've offered simple and clear explanations... you've offered conjecture, speculation, and conspiracy theories while alledging the absolute worst types of conclusions.

So who is obfuscating?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Actually, I said that the symbol of the pyramid with the all-seeing eye represented the precise achitectural achievement of man, under the all-seeing eye of god.

Do you have reason to believe it represents something else?

I've offered simple and clear explanations... you've offered conjecture, speculation, and conspiracy theories while alledging the absolute worst types of conclusions.

So who is obfuscating?

We've been down this road...

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6809429&page=18