Freemason

[brinny]

As I stated earlier, satanists are truly Atheists - check out the Church of Satan website. We Christians need to be looking at some of the real enemies of our Religion rather than those who, throughout history and today, compliment it and stand to fight for it.

Here are some Peter Singer (Atheist) quotations from his books Rethinking Life and Death and Writings on an Ethical Life.
On how mothers should be permitted to kill their offspring until the age of 28 days: "My colleague Helga Kuhse and I suggest that a period of twenty-eight days after birth might be allowed before an infant is accepted as having the same right to life as others."
On why abortion is less morally significant than killing a rat: "Rats are indisputably more aware of their surroundings, and more able to respond in purposeful and complex ways to things they like or dislike, than a fetus at ten or even thirty-two weeks gestation."
On why pigs, chickens and fish have more rights to life than unborn humans: "The calf, the pig, and the much-derided chicken come out well ahead of the fetus at any stage of pregnancy, while if we make the comparison with a fetus of less than three months, a fish would show more signs of consciousness."
On why infants aren't normal human beings with rights to life and liberty: "Characteristics like rationality, autonomy and self-consciousness...make a difference. Infants lack these characteristics. Killing them, therefore, cannot be equated with killing normal human beings."

You'll never find a Freemason thinking such things as Masons rejoice and hold true the gift that God gave us - Life - and hope for that gift which Christ promises us - Life Eternal.

Satan is not an 'atheist'. He believes in God. he knows the Bible. And he and his minions know exactly Who Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God is. those that worship Satan are not 'atheists'. They're enemies of God. They are 'anti' God.

 

[wayseer]

There is odd ritual involved which is not understood by most Masons.

.... then ....

Its just the stuff we don't know about that makes them special that gives us cause to wonder.

This seems contradictory. You know more than most Masons about the 'odd ritual' yet you're worried about the 'stuff you don't know about'.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by Autumnleaf
There is odd ritual involved which is not understood by most Masons.
.... then ....


Its just the stuff we don't know about that makes them special that gives us cause to wonder.

This seems contradictory. You know more than most Masons about the 'odd ritual' yet you're worried about the 'stuff you don't know about'.

good point.

 

[Jester4kicks]

Don't get me wrong. Publicly the Masons do a lot of good things. Its just the stuff we don't know about that makes them special that gives us cause to wonder.

What would you like to know?

 

[brinny]

What would you like to know?

do they believe in Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?

 

[Jester4kicks]

do they believe in Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?

Many probably do, but it's not part of being a mason. Religion and politics are the two things which are not discussed within a lodge.

So, the brother to my right might be a christian, the brother to my left might be a muslim, and I could just believe in a creator without any particular religion in mind.

Does that answer your question?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
do they believe in Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?

Many probably do, but it's not part of being a mason. Religion and politics are the two things which are not discussed within a lodge.

So, the brother to my right might be a christian, the brother to my left might be a muslim, and I could just believe in a creator without any particular religion in mind.

Does that answer your question?

No. You did not answer my question.

I have another , well 2 additional questons for you. What is the purpose of the masons and what is the origin of the masons?

 

[Jester4kicks]

No. You did not answer my question.

I have another , well 2 additional questons for you. What is the purpose of the masons and what is the origin of the masons?

Ok, well since I didn't answer the question, let me take one more crack at the last one.

Belief in jesus is not a requirement of Freemasonry. However, many masons (especially in the United States) ARE christian. Think of it like this... would you have to belong to a particular faith in order to be a member of your local library's book club? Probably not... but that doesn't mean the members absolutely will or will not belong to a particular religion. The only difference is the Freemasonry does require the belief in a creator.

As for the two new questions...

Q: "What is the purpose of the masons?"
A: Within the masons, the purpose is to encourge honesty, equality, friendship, and brotherly love. Many of the lectures of Freemasonry are just allegories for good values. Additionally, being a master mason also allows you to travel to other lodges. When I moved to Virginia for a short period of time, I really didn't know many people. So, I looked up a local lodge, found out their meeting times (which are publicly published) and went to say hi. It's a great way to meet other people... and a good way to know that the people you are meeting share the same good values as you do.

Outside of the lodge, Freemasons donate lots of money to charities, law enforcement organizations, and other causes (although not to political parties). You may have also heard of the Shriners, who maintain the Shriners hospitals for free orthopedic and burn care for children. There's also the Scottish Rite, which maintains it's own hospitals for kids suffering from orthopedic problems, neurological disorders, and learning disabilities.

I hope that answers your question.

Q: "what is the origin of the masons?"
A: The question of origins of the organization comes down to the difference between operative and speculative masonry. Operative masons were the men who had the skills and knowledge to construct churches, temples, and other prominent structures. Speculative masonry came later, and it focused on using the same concepts to teach moral values. The square, level, and plumb were all used in the construction of a building by operative masons, and they are used to teach moral values by speculative masons. The first Grand Lodge of masons was formed in 1717 when four lodges in London met and created a "governing" body for Freemasonry. The Grand Lodge was responsible for approving the formation of new lodges, and ensuring all lodges were properly constituted.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Carey]

Do you believe in the freemason, illuminati, and nwo? I am scared after reading all of it.

Please lelt's talk like grown adults and not be foul to eachother. thank you

Nothing to fear.

God will not put anything on us we cannot handle.

Its is not every Christians fate to be a martyr to the NWO. God always strehgthens us for whatever we are destined to do.

Hebrews 13 : 5Keep your lives free from the love of money( security ) and be content with what you have, because God has said,
"Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you."[a] 6So we say with confidence,
"The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid.
What can man ( NWO )do to me?"

2 Peter 2 : 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous ( NWO ) for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment

Revelations 2 : 10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you( NOT EVERYONE) in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Revelations 13 : 9He who has an ear, let him hear.
10If anyone ( Not everyone )is to go into captivity,
into captivity he will go.
If anyone ( not everyone )is to be killed[c] with the sword,
with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.

Matthew 24 : 9"Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,

Revelations 14 : 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."
"Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."

1 Thessalonians 1 : 6You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.

 

[wayseer]

do they believe in Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?

You could re-read my previous posts where I indicated that FM is theist. Freemasons believe in God. However, they are never asked to explain, justify and elaborate on that belief. That is a matter for each individual Mason.

You might also recall that I indicated that there are two subjects off limits in a Lodge - religion and politics. Being off-limits means we don't talk about such issues.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
do they believe in Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God?

You could re-read my previous posts where I indicated that FM is theist. Freemasons believe in God. However, they are never asked to explain, justify and elaborate on that belief. That is a matter for each individual Mason.

You might also recall that I indicated that there are two subjects off limits in a Lodge - religion and politics. Being off-limits means we don't talk about such issues.

You lost me at 'theist'...don't have a clue what that means. Ok, you saying it means believing in God? If so, which God/god?

If the subject of religion is off limits, how can it be a requirement to believe in God/god?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
No. You did not answer my question.

I have another , well 2 additional questons for you. What is the purpose of the masons and what is the origin of the masons?

Ok, well since I didn't answer the question, let me take one more crack at the last one.

Belief in jesus is not a requirement of Freemasonry. However, many masons (especially in the United States) ARE christian. Think of it like this... would you have to belong to a particular faith in order to be a member of your local library's book club? Probably not... but that doesn't mean the members absolutely will or will not belong to a particular religion. The only difference is the Freemasonry does require the belief in a creator.

As for the two new questions...

Q: "What is the purpose of the masons?"
A: Within the masons, the purpose is to encourge honesty, equality, friendship, and brotherly love. Many of the lectures of Freemasonry are just allegories for good values. Additionally, being a master mason also allows you to travel to other lodges. When I moved to Virginia for a short period of time, I really didn't know many people. So, I looked up a local lodge, found out their meeting times (which are publicly published) and went to say hi. It's a great way to meet other people... and a good way to know that the people you are meeting share the same good values as you do.

Outside of the lodge, Freemasons donate lots of money to charities, law enforcement organizations, and other causes (although not to political parties). You may have also heard of the Shriners, who maintain the Shriners hospitals for free orthopedic and burn care for children. There's also the Scottish Rite, which maintains it's own hospitals for kids suffering from orthopedic problems, neurological disorders, and learning disabilities.

I hope that answers your question.

Q: "what is the origin of the masons?"
A: The question of origins of the organization comes down to the difference between operative and speculative masonry. Operative masons were the men who had the skills and knowledge to construct churches, temples, and other prominent structures. Speculative masonry came later, and it focused on using the same concepts to teach moral values. The square, level, and plumb were all used in the construction of a building by operative masons, and they are used to teach moral values by speculative masons. The first Grand Lodge of masons was formed in 1717 when four lodges in London met and created a "governing" body for Freemasonry. The Grand Lodge was responsible for approving the formation of new lodges, and ensuring all lodges were properly constituted.

Does that answer your question?

the four lodges in London, what's the origin of them? Who began the four lodges in London?

 

[Jester4kicks]

You lost me at 'theist'...don't have a clue what that means. Ok, you saying it means believing in God? If so, which God/god?

If the subject of religion is off limits, how can it be a requirement to believe in God/god?

Simply stated... if I ask "do you believe in god"... you could answer, "yes, I believe in god". Now, has either of us said anything about our beliefs surrounding that god? You could be a muslim, I could be a christian, or I could be a hinduist, and you could have no particular other than your belief that there is a god.

The purpose of the belief in god is not to ensure members are religoius, but rather that they believe they are ultimately accountable to a higher power.

the four lodges in London, what's the origin of them? Who began the four lodges in London?

To the best of my knowledge, the lodges that eventually formed the first grand lodge were some of the lodges that existed back when freemasons were still operative. As I said earlier, "operative" refers back to the time when masons were still actually building. So, the founders of those lodges were most likely some of the men that actually built some of the prominent buildings in London.

You can read more about the background, the transition, and the formation of the grand lodge here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Freemasonry (Yeah, I know... wiki... but I didn't see any glaring errors in it)

 

[wayseer]

You lost me at 'theist'...don't have a clue what that means.

Please consult a dictionary or Wikipedia. You need not live in ignorance - but it does take some work to remove.

If the subject of religion is off limits, how can it be a requirement to believe in God/god?

As I said - the need to explain, justify or defend one's belief in God is off limits. A Mason only needs answer, 'Yes' to the question, 'Do you believe in God"? That's it - no further discussion.

 

[brinny]

my quotes are in blue:

Originally Posted by brinny
You lost me at 'theist'...don't have a clue what that means.

Please consult a dictionary or Wikipedia. You need not live in ignorance - but it does take some work to remove.

If the subject of religion is off limits, how can it be a requirement to believe in God/god?

As I said - the need to explain, justify or defend one's belief in God is off limits. A Mason only needs answer, 'Yes' to the question, 'Do you believe in God"? That's it - no further discussion.

the question is, which God/god? My research has unfolded scary elements to the masons. That's why I'm asking you. I'm assuming you are a mason or know something about them. Are you and/or do you?

i messed up with the multi-quotes.....i give up

 

[Jester4kicks]

my quotes are in blue:

the question is, which God/god? My research has unfolded scary elements to the masons. That's why I'm asking you. I'm assuming you are a mason or know something about them. Are you and/or do you?

i messed up with the multi-quotes.....i give up

I'm a mason.

I think you're getting too caught up on the identification of the god a person believes in.

There is no follow-up question. A new member is simply asked, "do you believe in god?".

To quote myself:

Simply stated... if I ask "do you believe in god"... you could answer, "yes, I believe in god". Now, has either of us said anything about our beliefs surrounding that god? You could be a muslim, I could be a christian, or I could be a hinduist, and you could have no particular other than your belief that there is a god.

 

[wayseer]

My research has unfolded scary elements to the masons.

Trot them out and I will answer as best I can.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

My research has unfolded scary elements to the masons.

Trot them out and I will answer as best I can.

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...e_refused.html


At the link they reference a writing by Mather called “Kabbalah Unveiled” and here is the quote:

"The Kabbalah was first taught by God himself to a select company of angels, who formed a theosophic school in Paradise. After the Fall the angels most graciously communicated this heavenly doctrine to the disobedient child of earth, to furnish the protoplasts with the means of returning to their pristine nobility and felicity. From Adam it passed over to Noah, and then to Abraham, the friend of God, who emigrated with it to Egypt, where the patriarch allowed a portion of this mysterious doctrine to ooze out. It was in this way that the Egyptians obtained some knowledge of it, and the other Eastern nations could introduce it into their philosophical systems…..”

Is it any wonder that they study ancient Egypt, Eastern religions, the Kaballah and the occult? They are trying to get back the "wisdom" that the fallen angels taught mankind.


Here is the author’s (32 degree Freemason named Peters) conclusion:

“Whatever the original provenance and impetus of Freemasonry, it seems clear that encoded within the rituals is a profound doctrine of spiritual illumination or Gnosis. With the application of tools such as gematria, isopsophy, temurah and notariqon, a wealth of otherwise hidden wisdom begins to reveal itself. Applying the lamp of focused consciousness on these symbols, the treasure chest opens.

Symbols may be thought of as a living, dynamic centers of energy. By focusing on them and taking them into deep contemplation, this energy is unlocked from within, revealing the Royal Art as a series of signposts in consciousness. By following these signs into meditation, we may eventually come away with a further, profounder understanding of ourselves and our position in the universe.”

Scary, huh?

Yeah, avoid them like the plague. They are not seeking the One True Living God. It's the modern day version of Babel.

 

[gracechick]

Thanks Jen for this.

 

[Jester4kicks]

http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.co...e_refused.html


At the link they reference a writing by Mather called “Kabbalah Unveiled” and here is the quote:

"The Kabbalah was first taught by God himself to a select company of angels, who formed a theosophic school in Paradise. After the Fall the angels most graciously communicated this heavenly doctrine to the disobedient child of earth, to furnish the protoplasts with the means of returning to their pristine nobility and felicity. From Adam it passed over to Noah, and then to Abraham, the friend of God, who emigrated with it to Egypt, where the patriarch allowed a portion of this mysterious doctrine to ooze out. It was in this way that the Egyptians obtained some knowledge of it, and the other Eastern nations could introduce it into their philosophical systems…..”

Is it any wonder that they study ancient Egypt, Eastern religions, the Kaballah and the occult? They are trying to get back the "wisdom" that the fallen angels taught mankind.


Here is the author’s (32 degree Freemason named Peters) conclusion:

“Whatever the original provenance and impetus of Freemasonry, it seems clear that encoded within the rituals is a profound doctrine of spiritual illumination or Gnosis. With the application of tools such as gematria, isopsophy, temurah and notariqon, a wealth of otherwise hidden wisdom begins to reveal itself. Applying the lamp of focused consciousness on these symbols, the treasure chest opens.

Symbols may be thought of as a living, dynamic centers of energy. By focusing on them and taking them into deep contemplation, this energy is unlocked from within, revealing the Royal Art as a series of signposts in consciousness. By following these signs into meditation, we may eventually come away with a further, profounder understanding of ourselves and our position in the universe.”

Scary, huh?

Yeah, avoid them like the plague. They are not seeking the One True Living God. It's the modern day version of Babel.

Wonderful... we're back to this again. We already spent 44 pages on it... do we really need to go through it all again?

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=6809429&page=44

Wayseer, I would strongly suggest checking the link I just posted before deciding to waste your time trying to educate those who refuse to listen.