Don't need to study all of your interactions with the FG2!Yea - I think you and I might be on the same page in regards to holiness...
Check my interaction with FG2 and see if you agree or not. Look forward to see what you think.
Like I said, his gloss is not altogether unprecedented, but is instead witnessed to by other lexicons.Or, much more likely, his agenda was to provide support for those who teach Lordship Salvation, and needed a source to quote from.
I admit that I am not sure, but like I said, there are other witnesses to Danker's gloss.What evidence does Danker bring to the table to justify a change from over 100 years of published material in Arndt & Gingrich?
Yes, and this should be obvious from a somewhat deeper understanding of the NT!... love, faith, trust, faithfulness, and diligent obedience (basically, a true relationship)
with and for Messiah and YHVH is required for salvation ...
I think the main issue is with our mainstream translations. They don't completely communicate the whole meaning (aspect, tenses, alternative meanings) of the underlying Hebrew or Greek, and whole theologies and denominations are built on those faulty translations.Yes, and this should be obvious from a somewhat deeper understanding of the NT!
However, most prefer to languish in the misunderstood easy-believism verses, esp. in John's gospel.
To believe (pisteou) must include obedience for the whole NT to make any sense at all.
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Perhaps, you might eventually come around to seeing that ...In a sense, I agree with you ... I believe we can do things which causes Them to release us.
I agreePerhaps, you might eventually come around to seeing that ...
even with copious amounts of God's chastisement ... in the end, man's free will is King!
I.E. God does NOT force us to do anything outside of our own free will.
To do so would make us robots!
Note: let us not forget that all of God's angels also have free will,
and we know what happened to 1/3 of those poor guys!
They were deceived just enough ... to follow Lucifer on the path to hell.
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Don't need to study all of your interactions with the FG2!
I've read enough of his beliefs, thanks very much.
Of course, not everything he says is untrue (same with the cults/sects).
But, if you stand against his doctrine, I stand with you.
The idea that one is guaranteed eternal life before he/she dies is against many Scripture verses!
I.E. salvation is life-long process, which God has somewhat hidden due to its' being so unpopular!
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Finally got back to this ...Jn 10:28,29 only promises that nobody else can snatch His people out of YHVH's or Messiah's Hands
... This verse does not guarantee eternal life for all who only "believes".
Actually, there is nowhere in Scripture that places any kind of "time frame" on faith that makes it saving.Ironically - there is nowhere in scripture that gives a clear explanation of what short term "saving faith" is.
Why would any description need to include "falling away"? In fact, Scripture is clear with warnings of "continuing in the faith", per Acts 11:23 "remain true to the Lord", 14:22 "continue in the faith" and Col 1:23 "continue in the faith".What is in scripture are vast descriptions of what saving faith looks like and none of them include a description of a falling away and then coming back again.
No, only the Hebrews passage, and that wa about repentance, not faith.In fact any description given of someone actually falling away includes them not being able to come back.
Since Jesus said it Himself, it IS Scriptural. Otherwise he wouldn't have made note of it.So I would say that its a preconceived idea to assume that a temporary faith can be scriptural
There is no such concept in Scripture of a "false faith". If you remain true to what words mean, a "false" faith is a phony faith, meaning that what you are believing in won't deliver on the purpose of your faith. That's a false faith.In relation to this topic of conversation false faith is a faith that does not last - if you stop believing in Jesus you never believed in Him.
Saying "not of us" could mean any number of things, including having a different theology, just as Arminians, Calvinists, and Free Grace people have different theologies. Doesn't mean those who went out weren't saved at all.In addition to Hebrew 6:4-6 we have 2 Peter 2:21-22. Another definition is found in 1 John 1:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
I don't see any real difference between "always results in deeds" and "it WILL produce deeds". They are saying the same thing. Since the NT is full of commands regarding deeds, it should be clear that producing deeds isn't automatic nor guaranteed.Because we are not perfect and still sin. I probably shouldn't have said it always results in deeds - but it does always result in sanctification which will produce fruit. Hence I should have said it WILL produce deeds.
Yes, for the Exodus generation. Heb 3:19 says so. And that included Moses himself! Plus the ENTIRE first generation of Jews, minus 2.But are these folks taken home because of a lack of faith?
As unappetizing it may be for one to accept it, the fact is that once God saves, regenerates, forgives, justifies, and adopts, that is permanent; regardless of what happens after. There are plenty of warning verses that refer to loss of blessings in time and rewards in eternity.Did they loose faith and stop believing in Jesus? Christians are not perfect - they will and do get punished for sin.
Good. Which proves that deeds are not guaranteed nor automatic.agreed.
Well, you weren't clear. So I wasn't dodging anything. Please be more clear. So, what about John?I'm not talking about Peter. I'm talking about John. Dodge noted.
If one takes this passage literally, then one will be forced to accept that true believers stop sinning. Have you stopped sinning completely?1 John 3:6-9 ESV
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
Okay thanks John. So does that mean if a person worships the devil as a practice they've NEVER known God?
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
Is there one among us trying to deceive us by teaching you can actually practice sin and be of God?
The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
Okay so if God's seed abides in a person, he can't keep on sinning like someone among us keeps asserting he can? Interesting.
Your final statement is quite illuminating! That is laughable that God would hide something which is seen as "so unpopular".Don't need to study all of your interactions with the FG2!
I've read enough of his beliefs, thanks very much.
Of course, not everything he says is untrue (same with the cults/sects).
But, if you stand against his doctrine, I stand with you.
The idea that one is guaranteed eternal life before he/she dies is against many Scripture verses!
I.E. salvation is life-long process, which God has somewhat hidden due to its' being so unpopular!
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If one takes this passage literally, then one will be forced to accept that true believers stop sinning. Have you stopped sinning completely?
John is speaking of the new nature, the one God regenerated, and in which the Holy Spirit resides.
When the believer is "filled with the Spirit" (Eph 5:18) and "walking by means of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16), they cannot sin. Period.
When the believer is "grieving the Spirit" (Eph 4:30) and "quenching the Spirit" (1 Thess 5:18), they ARE sinning, but which doesn't come from the regenerated new nature.
Is there anyone who does not think it's possible to put this guy to rest ... once and for all?Actually, there is nowhere in Scripture that places any kind of "time frame" on faith that makes it saving.
Is there anyone who does not think it's possible to put this guy to rest ... once and for all?
Please refer to my new thread, which is on its' way ...
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