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Free Grace Theology - The theology that allows devil worshippers into heaven

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by guuila, Dec 20, 2013.

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  1. jamantc

    jamantc Elected Predestinarian

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    Agreed, we are justified by faith alone and no other way! Again, works were created for use to walk in before the foundation of the world that the things we do might bring glory to God as He commands. James was specific: Show me faith without works and I will show you a dead faith while I show you my faith through my works. James never believed salvation was by works or faith plus works, he simply believed that works was the outward expression of faith or the faith was dead and not real. Thankfully, God has led me to the works He had planned for me and I delight in them with satisfaction that I am pleasing God by doing His will. Thanks for reminding me why I do my works, to glorify God. I think those who refuse to want to work or to declare works as a result of faith should do as Peter stated, make their election and calling sure. I am not saying they aren't saved, that is not for me to know their heart, but I am saying Christ Himself said we would know His sheep by their works.
     
  2. Leasaithe

    Leasaithe Newbie

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    If we can seperate faith and repentance, why then does Jesus curse Capernaum, Bethsaida, and Chorazin for not repenting? Why do scriptures not say they were condemend for not having faith? I do not believe these are seperable. If someone has faith they will repent, if they repent it is because they have faith. No man will repent without faith. If man does not repent it is obvious he does not have faith.
     
  3. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    actually ... one branch of the early church ;)
     
  4. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    If someone approaches the text with an anti-supernatural bias, it is not surprising that such a view is taken.
     
  5. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    The correct one. ;)
     
  6. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    ... not from my perspective ;)
     
  7. OzSpen

    OzSpen Regular Member

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    Or, do you consider that that correct perspective is your perspective? Which perspective are you advocating and promoting?
     
  8. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    My perspective, which I obviously advocate, is one which promotes the idea that love, faith, trust, faithfulness, and diligent obedience (basically, a true relationship) with and for Messiah and YHVH is required for salvation, and that this message is given to all peoples, Jews and Gentiles, equally, by YHVH's & Messiah's command.
     
  9. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Incorrect, as usual. Jesus addressed Peter as Satan. Not "of the devil". Sometimes Scripture contains figurative language. It's helpful to understand when.
     
  10. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I don't see that anywhere in that text. And Rom 8:35-39 clearly refutes that idea, imho.
     
  11. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Or, much more likely, his agenda was to provide support for those who teach Lordship Salvation, and needed a source to quote from. :)

    What evidence does Danker bring to the table to justify a change from over 100 years of published material in Arndt & Gingrich?
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  12. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Apparently you are unable to give an explanation. OK.

    What do I make sound erroneous??? How can Christianity be made to sound erroneous? That doesn't even make sense.

    Obviously your opinion of my study habits is sorely lacking of any facts. btw, no text is "flimsy".

    That would be a flimsy opinion, imho.

    Here is the truth: Jesus Christ died for the sins of the whole world. That is not my flimsy opinion; it is found in the Word of God. So whatever happens to one of God's children after the point of faith in Christ, they REMAIN saved because God NEVER goes back on His promise.

    I can't imagine what your point is here. Seems to be more ranting than anything else.

    This is full of error. First, there are HUGE consequences for any of God's children who rebel. Heb 12 is quite clear on that. And 1 Cor 10 and 11:30 are clear examples of that. So it is clear that your view of my view is in error.

    Second, no one goes to heaven for "joining" any religion. That is absurd. And luck has nothing to do with anything.

    When you do figure out what my view really is, then we can have a discussion about it.
     
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    All based on a preconceived idea. Where in Scripture is there a clear explanation that short term believing isn't saving faith. Maybe the problem is a faulty understanding of what "saving faith" really is.

    Also speculation to view "believing for a while" to mean "not saved".

    Please interact with what I said:
    If you disagree with my definition of "false faith", can you provide a better one that has support from Scripture?
     
  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    If our justification ALWAYS results in deeds, then WHY are there so many warnings to be holy and "stop living as the gentiles" per Eph 4:17?

    Of course there are. 1 Cor 10 and 11:30 proves it with examples of those God takes home because of it.

    No, the problem is your lack of information of what I read. I'm thoroughly familiar with ALL of James 2, as well as the rest of his epistle. Your comment is just a cheap jab.

    Assumption. Yes, there are many passages that show that faith IS accompanied by works. And there are many passages that COMMAND that our faith be accompanied by works. But that doesn't mean it MEANS the same thing.
     
  15. AndOne

    AndOne Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

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    Ironically - there is nowhere in scripture that gives a clear explanation of what short term "saving faith" is. What is in scripture are vast descriptions of what saving faith looks like and none of them include a description of a falling away and then coming back again. In fact any description given of someone actually falling away includes them not being able to come back. So I would say that its a preconceived idea to assume that a temporary faith can be scriptural


    Why is it speculation? I provided scripture to explain why.


    I am.

    In relation to this topic of conversation false faith is a faith that does not last - if you stop believing in Jesus you never believed in Him. In addition to Hebrew 6:4-6 we have 2 Peter 2:21-22. Another definition is found in 1 John 1:19 - They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  16. AndOne

    AndOne Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

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    Because we are not perfect and still sin. I probably shouldn't have said it always results in deeds - but it does always result in sanctification which will produce fruit. Hence I should have said it WILL produce deeds.


    But are these folks taken home because of a lack of faith? Did they loose faith and stop believing in Jesus? Christians are not perfect - they will and do get punished for sin.


    agreed.
     
  17. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    I'm not talking about Peter. I'm talking about John. Dodge noted.
     
  18. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    1 John 3:6-9 ESV

    No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

    Okay thanks John. So does that mean if a person worships the devil as a practice they've NEVER known God?

    Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

    Is there one among us trying to deceive us by teaching you can actually practice sin and be of God?

    The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.

    Okay so if God's seed abides in a person, he can't keep on sinning like someone among us keeps asserting he can? Interesting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2013
  19. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    IMO, Scripture is clear that we ourselves "can take us from the Father's and Messiah's hand."
    .
     
  20. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    I'm finishing up a summary which reconciles/explains both sets of Scriptures, which obviously is necessary!
    .
     
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