Free Grace Theology - The theology that allows devil worshippers into heaven

[AndOne]

Good. Which proves that deeds are not guaranteed nor automatic.

Maybe not automatic but definately guaranteed - Romans 6:1-12.

 

[extraordinary]

Your final statement is quite illuminating!
That is laughable that God would hide something which is seen as "so unpopular".

The laugh is always on you, Bud, believe me ... always!

God has somewhat hidden several spiritual Truths, which are unpopular.

But, it's all WAY over your head ... which means you're in WAY too deep over your head.

Next, someone'll want to see the list ... No problem!
.

 

[guuila]

Well, that was fun.

 

[SwordFall]

There is no fear of God in free grace theology, a very important and centrifugal proponent in adhering God and His righteousness.

As Isaiah said, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but fools despise knowledge and instruction.

In a big way, the Bible calls things such as 'free grace' foolish.
And it is- God cannot justify evil. If He could, then there would have been no point in Jesus atoning man in the first place.

 

[FreeGrace2]

What evidence do you have that Danker inserted his agenda, without support, into the reference?

When did the meaning of pisteuo change? What support is there that the meaning has changed? That's the question.

The only meaning of "commit" with pisteuo is in the sense that the believer is committing his soul to Christ for salvation.

Not committing one's life and behavior for salvation. That would be a system of works-related salvation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Perhaps, you might eventually come around to seeing that ...
even with copious amounts of God's chastisement ... in the end, man's free will is King!

I.E. God does NOT force us to do anything outside of our own free will.
To do so would make us robots!

Yet, there's not a shred of evidence that God will remove our salvation, regenerated new nature, and justification.

The whole problem for those who espouse loss of salvation is that Christ already died for all sins, not just the sins up to the point of faith.

Note: let us not forget that all of God's angels also have free will,
and we know what happened to 1/3 of those poor guys!
They were deceived just enough ... to follow Lucifer on the path to hell.
Sorry, I almost forgot the lake of fire!
.

Why do you think they were deceived? The devil actively rebelled, and he stirred up others to follow him. I don't think they were tricked.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually scripture is fairly clear that true faith - real faith - will result in salvation that endures into eternity.

Amen to that! And regardless of "things present or things in the future", per Rom 8:38, nothing can separate us (believers) from the love of Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I never once even implied that's the interpretation I've taken. Why do you continually build straw men?

I'm happy to answer this. Because you "threw" that passage at me without so much as any explanation, so what was I to think? If you don't provide any explanation when you throw verses at others, don't be surprised to see how others conclude your views. So, do you agree with my view or do you have another view?

That would make John contradict himself when he says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 ESV)

Right. So I'm looking forward to your explanation of John's meaning in 3:9.

You still haven't addressed the text.

What text would that be? I did address 1 Jn 3, which you threw at me. What other text did you have in mind?

You're teaching that saved people can practice sin.

So you think the opposite; that people can't???? What makes you come to that conclusion? Paul clearly noted the fact that believers are free to "present ourselves to whom we obey as slaves, whether slaves to sin, or slaves to righteousness, per Rom 6:16.

John says that kind of person is of the devil. Think I'll go with John on this one. Nice try though.

See? Your comments lead me to the conclusion that your view is that John is teaching sinless perfection.

John says 'do not be deceived' and teaches doctrine contrary to what you're asserting. Might wanna think about that.

No he didn't. Not even close.

And I am waiting for your explanation of 1 Jn 3:9. Recall that he is speaking to believers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Maybe not automatic but definately guaranteed - Romans 6:1-12.

Please quote the specific verses that actually SAY what you believe. I don't read your view in any of those verses.

 

[AndOne]

Please quote the specific verses that actually SAY what you believe. I don't read your view in any of those verses.

Okay -

Romans 6:1-14

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self[a] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

 

[guuila]

I'm happy to answer this. Because you "threw" that passage at me without so much as any explanation, so what was I to think? If you don't provide any explanation when you throw verses at others, don't be surprised to see how others conclude your views. So, do you agree with my view or do you have another view?

Right. So I'm looking forward to your explanation of John's meaning in 3:9.

What text would that be? I did address 1 Jn 3, which you threw at me. What other text did you have in mind?

So you think the opposite; that people can't???? What makes you come to that conclusion? Paul clearly noted the fact that believers are free to "present ourselves to whom we obey as slaves, whether slaves to sin, or slaves to righteousness, per Rom 6:16.

See? Your comments lead me to the conclusion that your view is that John is teaching sinless perfection.

No he didn't. Not even close.

And I am waiting for your explanation of 1 Jn 3:9. Recall that he is speaking to believers.

I "threw" the verse at you huh? Interesting. John was not teaching sinless perfection, but he was teaching that if you practice sin you're of the devil. Not sure why you disagree with John on that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The laugh is always on you, Bud, believe me ... always!

God has somewhat hidden several spiritual Truths, which are unpopular.

But, it's all WAY over your head ... which means you're in WAY too deep over your head.

Really think throwing insults accomplishes anything other than feeding the sin nature?

The comment that says that God has hidden some truths that are "unpopular" are just plain laughable!

When did God become sensitive to what is "unpopular"?

 

[FreeGrace2]

There is no fear of God in free grace theology

On what basis is that true? What source or sources can be cited to back up this claim? In fact, the statement is ludicrous.

a very important and centrifugal proponent in adhering God and His righteousness.

How does one "adhere God"?

As Isaiah said, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but fools despise knowledge and instruction.

Is this a not too veiled insult?

In a big way, the Bible calls things such as 'free grace' foolish.
And it is- God cannot justify evil. If He could, then there would have been no point in Jesus atoning man in the first place.

These comments make no sense. Christ died for the sins of the whole world, so the phrase "God cannot justify evil" is meaningless. God atoned for ALL sin, and that includes evil.

btw, where in Scripture is there any reference to "free grace" and a description of it as "foolish"? There is no support in Scripture for such claims.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Okay -

Romans 6:1-14

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Apparently you missed the "might walk" phrase? That is no guarantee.

5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self[a] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Why stop at v.14? After Paul said all this, he then said this, in v.16:
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

This is key. Paul is telling believers that we "present ourselves" as slaves either "of sin" or "of obedience". And this was written to believers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I "threw" the verse at you huh? Interesting. John was not teaching sinless perfection, but he was teaching that if you practice sin you're of the devil. Not sure why you disagree with John on that.

I wasn't. Peter was of the devil when the Lord said "get behind me, Satan!".

What is your point here?

 

[AndOne]

Apparently you missed the "might walk" phrase? That is no guarantee.

It certainly doesn't say "might not walk" which is the implication of the above quote.

Why stop at v.14? After Paul said all this, he then said this, in v.16:
16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

This is key. Paul is telling believers that we "present ourselves" as slaves either "of sin" or "of obedience". And this was written to believers.

He's not telling believers to present themselves as slaves of disobedience though - is he?

 

[AndOne]

I wasn't. Peter was of the devil when the Lord said "get behind me, Satan!".

I'm not sure there is any scripture that supports this statement. Jesus could have been speaking figuratively.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It certainly doesn't say "might not walk" which is the implication of the above quote.

Seems rather irrelevant to me. The point is that they MIGHT walk. Not guaranteed.

He's not telling believers to present themselves as slaves of disobedience though - is he?

No, he's making clear the choice we as believers all have. And he made it clear that it's a choice to whom we present ourselves to obey.

iow, we choose to obey one of our 2 natures: the sin nature, or the new nature. That's his point. And that was Paul's struggle in ch 7.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm not sure there is any scripture that supports this statement. Jesus could have been speaking figuratively.

So, why couldn't John have been speaking figuratively as well?

 

[Jack Terrence]

Seems rather irrelevant to me. The point is that they MIGHT walk. Not guaranteed.

"That whosoever believes in Him might have eternal life."

By your logic believing is no guarantee of salvation. Are you sure you want to go there?