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Free Grace Theology - The theology that allows devil worshippers into heaven

Discussion in 'Salvation (Soteriology)' started by guuila, Dec 20, 2013.

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  1. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    Don't need to study all of your interactions with the FG2!
    I've read enough of his beliefs, thanks very much.
    Of course, not everything he says is untrue (same with the cults/sects).
    But, if you stand against his doctrine, I stand with you.

    The idea that one is guaranteed eternal life before he/she dies is against many Scripture verses!
    I.E. salvation is life-long process, which God has somewhat hidden due to its' being so unpopular!
    .
     
  2. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    I cannot comment on Romans, but thanks for sharing!
     
  3. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    Like I said, his gloss is not altogether unprecedented, but is instead witnessed to by other lexicons.

    I admit that I am not sure, but like I said, there are other witnesses to Danker's gloss.

    What evidence do you have that Danker inserted his agenda, without support, into the reference?
     
  4. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    In a sense, I agree with you ... I believe we can do things which causes Them to release us.
     
  5. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    Yes, and this should be obvious from a somewhat deeper understanding of the NT!
    However, most prefer to languish in the misunderstood easy-believism verses, esp. in John's gospel.
    To believe (pisteou) must include obedience for the whole NT to make any sense at all.
    .
     
  6. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    I cannot reconcile them, so I look forward to reading your perspective.
     
  7. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    I think the main issue is with our mainstream translations. They don't completely communicate the whole meaning (aspect, tenses, alternative meanings) of the underlying Hebrew or Greek, and whole theologies and denominations are built on those faulty translations.
     
  8. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    Perhaps, you might eventually come around to seeing that ...
    even with copious amounts of God's chastisement ... in the end, man's free will is King!

    I.E. God does NOT force us to do anything outside of our own free will.
    To do so would make us robots!

    Note: let us not forget that all of God's angels also have free will,
    and we know what happened to 1/3 of those poor guys!
    They were deceived just enough ... to follow Lucifer on the path to hell.
    Sorry, I almost forgot the lake of fire!
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  9. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist

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    I agree :thumbsup:
     
  10. jamantc

    jamantc Elected Predestinarian

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    I suppose next we will hear that the angels can receive salvation too
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  11. AndOne

    AndOne Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

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    Actually scripture is fairly clear that true faith - real faith - will result in salvation that endures into eternity.
     
  12. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    Finally got back to this ...

    John 10:27-29
    “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
    And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;
    neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.
    My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all;
    and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.”


    Note those who are guaranteed eternal life:
    1 -- they hear Jesus' voice (do you?)
    2 -- Jesus knows them (does He know you?)
    3 -- they follow Jesus (do you?) ... What exactly does following Jesus include?
    In the context of dozens of NT verses, it includes obedience to Jesus' commands.

    IMO, this is a special group ... and Good Luck being in this particular group!

    Just came to me ...
    There may be sheep runnin' around in Jesus' flock who are NOT His sheep,
    i.e. who do NOT fulfill the above 3 requirements.
    These groupies would be the indistinguishable tares mixed within the wheat.
    Perhaps, in Jesus' "flock", there are His sheep and there are other sheep!
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Actually, there is nowhere in Scripture that places any kind of "time frame" on faith that makes it saving.

    In fact, faith of any kind, including "saving faith" must have 2 things: an object and a purpose (why one is believing).

    In saving faith, the object MUST be Jesus Christ, period. No one else. Acts 4:12.

    The purpose MUST be FOR eternal life. That's the purpose for believing in Him. That He gives eternal life (salvation) to all who believe in Him.

    We see that specifically stated in 1 Tim 1:16 -
    Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

    Why would any description need to include "falling away"? In fact, Scripture is clear with warnings of "continuing in the faith", per Acts 11:23 "remain true to the Lord", 14:22 "continue in the faith" and Col 1:23 "continue in the faith".

    The command is clear to "continue in the faith". That in itself proves that continuing in the faith is neither guaranteed nor automatic. One must persevere to continue in the faith.

    No, only the Hebrews passage, and that wa about repentance, not faith.

    Since Jesus said it Himself, it IS Scriptural. Otherwise he wouldn't have made note of it.

    [/QUOTE]Why is it speculation? I provided scripture to explain why.[/QUOTE]
    Because to think that 'believe for a while' means 'not saved' IS speculation. The verses you provided do not say it is. And Jesus didn't indicate it is. What He did indicate is that those who's faith doesn't persevere won't produce fruit.

    There is no such concept in Scripture of a "false faith". If you remain true to what words mean, a "false" faith is a phony faith, meaning that what you are believing in won't deliver on the purpose of your faith. That's a false faith.

    Muslims believe that Allah will provide 72 black haired virgins for any who die in jihad. that's a false faith. The object of their faith will NOT provide what they are believing in him for.

    Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ for eternal life (1 Tim 1:16) will receive it. Because God promises it.

    Saying "not of us" could mean any number of things, including having a different theology, just as Arminians, Calvinists, and Free Grace people have different theologies. Doesn't mean those who went out weren't saved at all.

    And none of those verses says that a faith that doesn't last isn't saving.
     
  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I don't see any real difference between "always results in deeds" and "it WILL produce deeds". They are saying the same thing. Since the NT is full of commands regarding deeds, it should be clear that producing deeds isn't automatic nor guaranteed.

    Yes, for the Exodus generation. Heb 3:19 says so. And that included Moses himself! Plus the ENTIRE first generation of Jews, minus 2.

    As unappetizing it may be for one to accept it, the fact is that once God saves, regenerates, forgives, justifies, and adopts, that is permanent; regardless of what happens after. There are plenty of warning verses that refer to loss of blessings in time and rewards in eternity.

    Good. Which proves that deeds are not guaranteed nor automatic.
     
  15. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Well, you weren't clear. So I wasn't dodging anything. Please be more clear. So, what about John?
     
  16. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    If one takes this passage literally, then one will be forced to accept that true believers stop sinning. Have you stopped sinning completely?

    John is speaking of the new nature, the one God regenerated, and in which the Holy Spirit resides.

    When the believer is "filled with the Spirit" (Eph 5:18) and "walking by means of the Spirit" (Gal 5:16), they cannot sin. Period.

    When the believer is "grieving the Spirit" (Eph 4:30) and "quenching the Spirit" (1 Thess 5:18), they ARE sinning, but which doesn't come from the regenerated new nature.
     
  17. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Your final statement is quite illuminating! That is laughable that God would hide something which is seen as "so unpopular". ^_^

    John 4:24 refutes that. We must worship God in TRUTH. He never hides truth. Ever. 2 Cor 1:13 also refutes that.
     
  18. guuila

    guuila Guest

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    I never once even implied that's the interpretation I've taken. Why do you continually build straw men? That would make John contradict himself when he says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 ESV)

    You still haven't addressed the text. You're teaching that saved people can practice sin. John says that kind of person is of the devil. Think I'll go with John on this one. Nice try though. John says 'do not be deceived' and teaches doctrine contrary to what you're asserting. Might wanna think about that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2013
  19. extraordinary

    extraordinary Newbie trainee

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    Is there anyone who does not think it's possible to put this guy to rest ... once and for all?

    Please refer to my new thread, which is on its' way ...
    .
     
  20. AndOne

    AndOne Deliver me oh Lord, from evil men

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    Just FYI - you might want to check out the report free thread going on....
     
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