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Founders: Family Tree within WOF and examining Who Founded WOF in all expressions?

Discussion in 'Word of Faith' started by Gxg (G²), Dec 23, 2014.

  1. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Something that always comes to mind with the WOF movement and trusting in the Living Word is that the Living Word is Christ - and Christ in his person/LOVE is what we are to reflect. It's why I was always glad for other founders in the WOF world such as T.L Osborn when it came to his work on the mission field abroad - he always pointed people back to Jesus and not simply to concepts.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCJksGX0jhc

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlA4aK6VAOA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esBbKYVl9-Q&list=PLA50F35AF84A25F41&index=40

    As said before, I am very glad for the work of others like T.L Osborn in making the Gospel so understandable and bringing home the point on what it means to trust in the Lord. The same also goes in regards to the other people connected with him who are also so focused on the Gospel - and knowing that the Greatest expression of Love for God (who is Love, according to I John 3-4 since God is love) is to love others.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C-IRIugh5w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIYbxLGvwVw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlA4aK6VAOA



    He has had other spiritual disciples whom have spread that message - such as John Bevere (who has been discussed before):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYDSeytr-ho
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  2. AbbaLove

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    The modern “Word Of Faith Movement” did not become a by-word until several years after the first publication of The Word Of Faith magazine in 1968. It was not until after the Rhema Bible College was founded in 1974, that words and phrases like: Word Of Faith, A Rhema Word, Living Word Church, etc (i.e. Prosperity Gospel) became common expressions. What set the WOF Movement apart from other ministries was the realization that there is more to faith than speaking in tongues, interpretations and prophecy (Pentecostal), or raising hands, dancing, and being slain in the spirit (Charismatic), or the nominal concept of “believes” and "faith" (i.e. Evangelical Christianity) as generally understood by much of Christianity in verses like John 3:16, Romans 10:9 and Luke 18:8 ~ "... However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" Jesus meant significant Faith not nominal faith.

    Matthew 21:21
    Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.
    Mark 16:17-18
    17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
    18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
    James 2:17-19
    17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
    18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
    19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.…

    Probably the first book that attempted to explain what became known as the WOF Movement was New thresholds of faith (1985) by Kenneth E. Hagin. On the other hand the first book to give a brief look at the dangers of the Prosperity Gospel was The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospels (1985) by Gordon D. Fee. What should be noted about the WOF Movement is a greater passion for FAITH than that preached, but not practised in many Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. The only limitation being a lack of faith in the Living Words of Jesus as being just as literally relevant to today’s Believers as Jesus' Disciples. In fact Jesus’ disciples were rebuked for their lack of faith even though they weren’t yet Spirit-filled. That suggests that there is something in our own spirit in which one’s faith can accomplish what is impossible with man. Hagin was not a Spirit-filled Christian when he was healed and he wasn’t healed by an elder or pastor or another Believer. It was finally his own unwavering faith in Mark 11:24 with all his being that led to his miraculous healing.

    Luke 8:48
    And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
    Matthew 7:7-8
    7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
    8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
    Matthew 18:19
    "Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.
    Mark 11:24
    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
    John 15:7-8
    7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
    8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.

    Listed below are a sampling of books representative of the modern Word Of Faith Movement from 1979 through 2014.

    Released to Reign: The Power and Authority of the Believer (1979) by Charles Trombley and Kenneth Copeland
    Authority of the Believer (1981) by Kenneth E. Hagin
    The Authority of the Believer Study Guide (1983) by Kenneth Copeland
    The Believer’s Authority (1984) by Kenneth E. Hagin
    Authority of the Believer-How to Quit Losing and Start Winning (1995) by A. L. Gill
    Authority of the Believer/Power to Prosper/Our Covenant with God/Faith Like a Rock/Believing… (1997) by Gloria Copeland
    The Authority of The Believer and Healing 1999 by Che Ahn
    The Authority of the Believer - Audio CD Set (2001) by Billye Brim
    The Incredible Power of Kingdom Authority: Getting an Upper Hand on the Underworld (2002) by Adrian Rogers
    The Heavenly Man: The Remarkable True Story of Chinese Christian Brother Yun (2002) by Brother Yun and Paul Hattaway
    The Authority of the Believer (2004) by Kenneth Wayne Gilmore
    The Secret Power of Speaking God’s Word (2004) by Joyce Meyer
    The Authority of the Believer (2007) by John A MacMillan
    The Believer’s Authority: What You Didn’t Learn In Church (2009) by Andrew Wommack
    The Authority of the Believer (2009) by Dr. Michael Fluitt
    The Essential Guide to Healing: Understanding the Authority of the Believer (2011) by Bill Johnson and Randy Clark
    I Give You Authority: Practicing the Authority Jesus Gave Us (2012) by Charles H. Kraft
    Why Won’t That Mountain Move? How to Use Your Authority as a Believer (2012) by Kathy Pearson
    The Position and Authority of the Believer (2013) by Jorn Overby
    Every Believer’s Authority (2013) by Paul L. Graves
    Believer’s Authority (Spirit-Led Bible Study): Taking Dominion Over Sin, Sickness, Poverty, and Death (2013) by Happy Caldwell
    God’s Calling and the Authority of the Believer (2013) by Clyde Hodson and Jorge Arbelaez
    The Power and Authority of the Believer: Understanding the Great Provision That God Has Made for Us (2014) by Godsword Godswill Onu
    Spiritual Authority of The Believer (2014) by Dr. Michael Jones
    Scarlet Threads: How Women of Faith Can Save Their Children, Hedge in Their Families, and Help Change the Nation… (2014) by Perry Stone

    The WOF Movement has always strived to encourage Church fellowship that preaches, teaches and practices the Authority of the Believer in Christ (i.e. Authority of Christ in the Believer) accompanied by deliverance, healings, miracles (signs and wonders) bearing much fruit that glorifies our heavenly Father.

    Love is Foundational

    How To Walk in Love (1983) by Kenneth E. Hagin
    Love: The Way to Victory (1994) by Kenneth E. Hagin
    Compelled by Love: How to change the world through the simple power of love in action (2008) by Heidi Baker
    Learning to Love: Passion, Compassion and the Essence of the Gospel (2013) by Heidi Baker

    1 Corinthians 13:2
    If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2015
  3. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Actually - to be consistent - terms like "Rhema Word" or "Living Word" were already used in differing circles of Christendom long before the modern "WOF" movement began. Orthodoxy has often used the terms for ages since (as another wisely noted) "His breath (Rhema) is the source of life, just as the Word of God, the Logos, is the source of our life in the Church, especially through the Holy Eucharist and through the Holy Scriptures." ....and as another from my background once said before:



    WOF seemed to popularize the term for the Evangelical world - but the concept of Rhema Word is not something WOF originated...
    There were, of course, already Pentecostals who noted extensively how speaking in tongues/prophetic words were not the FULLNESS of the faith - that has been present for some time in history. The same goes for Charismatics on the other side of things since many Charismatics pointed out that raising hands/slain in the Spirit were not all that was important in following Christ - and the same goes for those who practice faith in Christ since many in Evangelical Christianity were very radical when it came to how their faith was practiced. Some of the leading figures of the Evangelical Protestant movement were John Wesley (as the gifts of the Spirit - including the gift of Faith - were VERY prominent within the Methodist world and John Wesley was VERY big on healing - more in Commonplace Holiness Blog and the supernatural occurrences of john wesley and God's Gift Giver: The Pneumatology of John Wesley | Daniel Rushing - Academia.edu and Sam Storms: Oklahoma City, OK > History of the Pentecostal-Charismatic Movements ), George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards (whose Revivals IN the Great Awakening were marked by powerful moves of the Holy Spirit's power as Reformed Charismatics like Sam Storms note), Billy Graham, Harold John Ockenga, John Stott and Martyn Lloyd-Jones, E. Stanley Jones (of the book "The Unshakeable Kingdom" and one who was among the most prominent Evangelicals who revolutionized missions/did much) as well as many others - and from each of those came camps that had extensive cases of people who had GREAT faith.

    George Mueller is one of the greatest examples of faith that comes to mind in the miraculous work the Lord did through his faith/prayer to send finances out of nowhere when it came to taking care of orphans...



    Robber Of The Cruel Streets: George Muller - [1/6] - YouTube

    There are many other examples besides this...including Blacks who were among the first missionaries from America to do wild things for Christ (with it being the case that America's first missionary being George Liele - a true unsung hero more in George Liele: Grabbing Freedom Through the Word | Nicole Duncan-Smith - Academia.edu ) who went out/did amazing things by faith (

    What often happens, of course, is that people really don't do a lot of historical research into the issue - or have limited definitions on what a camp means.
    Indeed - and the focus on Faith makes a world of difference...
    Very excellent set of resources and many thanks for taking the time to make them :thumbsup:
     
  4. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Actually - to be consistent - terms like "Rhema Word" or "Living Word" were already used in differing circles of Christendom long before the modern "WOF" movement began. Orthodoxy has often used the terms for ages since (as another wisely noted) "His breath (Rhema) is the source of life, just as the Word of God, the Logos, is the source of our life in the Church, especially through the Holy Eucharist and through the Holy Scriptures." ....and as another from my background once said before:



    WOF seemed to popularize the term for the Evangelical world - but the concept of Rhema Word is not something WOF originated...
    There were, of course, already Pentecostals who noted extensively how speaking in tongues/prophetic words were not the FULLNESS of the faith - that has been present for some time in history. The same goes for Charismatics on the other side of things since many Charismatics pointed out that raising hands/slain in the Spirit were not all that was important in following Christ - and the same goes for those who practice faith in Christ since many in Evangelical Christianity were very radical when it came to how their faith was practiced. Some of the leading figures of the Evangelical Protestant movement were John Wesley (as the gifts of the Spirit - including the gift of Faith - were VERY prominent within the Methodist world and John Wesley was VERY big on healing - more in Commonplace Holiness Blog and the supernatural occurrences of john wesley and God's Gift Giver: The Pneumatology of John Wesley | Daniel Rushing - Academia.edu and Sam Storms: Oklahoma City, OK > History of the Pentecostal-Charismatic Movements ), George Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards (whose Revivals IN the Great Awakening were marked by powerful moves of the Holy Spirit's power as Reformed Charismatics like Sam Storms note), Billy Graham, Harold John Ockenga, John Stott and Martyn Lloyd-Jones, E. Stanley Jones (of the book "The Unshakeable Kingdom" and one who was among the most prominent Evangelicals who revolutionized missions/did much) as well as many others - and from each of those came camps that had extensive cases of people who had GREAT faith.

    George Mueller is one of the greatest examples of faith that comes to mind in the miraculous work the Lord did through his faith/prayer to send finances out of nowhere when it came to taking care of orphans...



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9906mDprd_k&list=PLwQRlRJTQHHEBQqsPY87Q4y2r3DJYtnn7&index=3

    There are many other examples besides this...including Blacks who were among the first missionaries from America to do wild things for Christ (with it being the case that America's first missionary being George Liele - a true unsung hero more in George Liele: Grabbing Freedom Through the Word | Nicole Duncan-Smith - Academia.edu ) who went out/did amazing things by faith (

    What often happens, of course, is that people really don't do a lot of historical research into the issue - or have limited definitions on what a camp means.
    Indeed - and the focus on Faith makes a world of difference...
    Very excellent set of resources and many thanks for taking the time to make them :thumbsup:
     
  5. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Guest

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    Considering your title to this thread and your subsequent posts it seems that you reject the modern WOF Movement as having its most significant beginnings in the 1970s and 80s. Can you understand why some WOF members might be upset with your attempt to define the modern WOF Movement as beginning with John Wesley’s Methodism. While on the other hand there’s no mention/inclusion of Martin Luther and the Protestant Reformation on your WOF Family Tree Chart. It does appear that you are proposing that the WOF Movement had it’s beginnings with John and Charles Wesley. Susanna Wesley, mother of 19 children, has been referred to as the Mother of Methodism and rightly so if you have read her biography.

    It does seem that your attempt to chart a Family WOF Tree (in all expressions) falls short by excluding Martin Luther’s contribution to the Protestant Reformation. In that you want to consider the WOF Movement (in all expressions) aren’t you doing a great injustice with no mention of Jesus and His Apostles as the Founder(s) of the WOF Movement,

    John 1:14
    And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
    Mark 11:24
    Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
    Hebrew 11:6
    And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
    James 2:18
    But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

    Not sure why you even started this thread in what seems to be an attempt to redefine the modern WOF Movement of the 70s and 80s as having begun 200 years earlier with John Wesley’s Methodism. The commonly held view of the modern WOF Movement (Authority of the Believer) has its most defining publications as first occurring in the 70s and 80s up to present day.

    The first issue of The Word of Faith Magazine was published in 1968.
    The Rhema Bible College was established in 1974.
    Released to Reign: The Power and Authority of the Believer (1979) by Charles Trombley and Kenneth Copeland
    Authority of the Believer (1981) by Kenneth E. Hagin
    The Authority of the Believer Study Guide (1983) by Kenneth Copeland
    The Believer’s Authority (1984) by Kenneth E. Hagin
    New Thresholds of Faith (1985) by Kenneth E. Hagin

    When considering the WOF Family Tree (in all expressions) why not begin your chart with the One New Man WOF Family Tree of Romans 11:17-20 in light of Ephesians 2:15 and Galations 3:28.

    If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith …

    After all weren’t the first Messianic Jewish followers of the resurrected Messiah Yeshua as well His Messianic Gentile followers (in all expressions) Spirit-filled Pentecostals with Charismatic Gifts. :)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2015
  6. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Respectfully, no one has said the Modern WOF movement did not have beginnings in the 1970s/1980s ..

    You already skipped past many of the points pertaining to the MODERN WOF movement and what others within it have said when it came to the history of it existing beyond the 70s/80s - as well as avoiding where things brought up from the 70s/80s were already discussed (be it Price or Crouch who made the spread of WOF possible on a massive scale or TL Osborn, Creflo Dollar And many others). Whether it be Larry Lea/the prayer movement he began (as noted in #42 or the charts concerning where founders in the WOF Movement (like Smith Wigglesworth) influenced other covergent groups in WOF like John Wimber (as noted in #44 ) and issue of groups interconnected as mentioned in #20 -



    And if not reading through the ENTIRE thread before commenting, then one ends up assuming without warrant


    Thus, if you're going to speak on the issue, IMHO I think it'd behoove you to do so without placing words in the mouths of others and going past what they already said:cool: For it seems that you already focused in on aspects of WOF you wanted (Even though it was never the case that published works from the 70s/80s you gave were the ONLY sources) and thus made a conclusion that anyone not highlighting that was not centered in on WOF - A CASE without warrant since the focus is upon seeing the roots of the WOF movement as much as examining it in the modern form...and the roots of a movement require dealing with concepts that did not originate with that movement even though concepts were highlighted in it. This is why others within the WOF Movement have noted for years that Modern WOF cannot be seen outside of its larger context within the Pentecostal and Charismatic world - regardless of trying to separate it.

    As another wisely pointed out (when it came to others like A.B. Simpson):

    While some of these leaders used the term “faith healing” or “faith cure,” A.B. Simpson himself preferred to avoid these terms and use the term “divine healing.”...other sound evangelical faith leaders of his day, such as W.E. Boardman, A.J. Gordon, Dr. Charles Cullis, Andrew Murray, R.A. Torrey, E.M. Bounds, George Muller, Charles Spurgeon and many others, taught sound principles of faith in relation to healing and prayer, similar to Simpson’s teaching. ​




    Victoryword actually noted the same before on his own WOF ministry when pointing out how the concept of Positive Confession was already present within Assemblies of God - as noted here:



    We both grew up in camps within the Faith movement that were really big in studying history and connecting with camps OUTSIDE of the WOF movement when it came to the simple concept of study.

    Giving a massive amount of works as you did in regards to Word Of Faith Movement from 1979 through 2014 is cool and appreciated - although many of the people listed in the references are not even directly in the WOF movement, as was the case with Heidi Baker and The Essential Guide to Healing: Understanding the Authority of the Believer (2011) by Bill Johnson and Randy Clark...

    You do know that both Heidi Baker of Iris Ministries and Bill Johnson are with Jesus Culture movement and Bethel - as well as 3rd Wave groups such as IHOP - groups which share common ancestry with WOF but that evolved differently for a myriad of reasons (even though they referenced each other) .....and thus, your own stance (as it concerns proclaiming "WOF is different than Charismatic" ) doesn't even line up fully - so it would be wise to do better next time in going through all of your sources before making proclamations. Some of it happened to be things I suspect were involving a copy & paste as other sites have done when compiling all together who happen to believe in common concepts and then saying "They are all WOF" rather than saying WOF concepts can be seen in these groups not explictly affiliated with WOF even as WOF does interdemoninational work - TBN was well known for that with the differing groups of people all under one roof and Paul Crouch at the helm....AND THis also goes for seeing where WOF in its inception was already like a tree which had differing branches come from it.
    IMHO, this is again evidence where you already skipped past directly what was said and referenced - as other WOF have already noted where concepts taught by Martin Luther were also echoed in WOF, as it concerns the authority believers have in Christ and the concept of men being made divine (i.e. "gods") when it comes to our transformation in Christ. Moreover, a chart/family tree given is but one of many others - and like I said in the OP (if you read it fully, which I do not suspect you did), you're welcome to share any other charts you can either make or feel others did good on if it seems it would help. I enjoy Tree Charts and have referenced them before when it comes to Church History, be it Evangelical or Pentecostal or otherwise.

    That said, nothing remotely was said about Wesley beginning the WOF movement (even though Pentecostalism/Charismatic was said to have been started by Him and thus there's ancestry for WOF there) since the movement itself had several other strains intersecting it in its beginnings - hence, why there are various differing strains of WOF that developed in the Modern Era (as discussed before you came into the thread). One evidence of this is how the word of faith movement utilises a large portion of evangelical and Pentecostal terminology and has been rightly pointed out to be a specific sub-set or branch of the Pentecostal world - and as another wisely noted, the WOF movement may emphasize things but by no means was it ever the FIRST to do so since others long before it did so.

    Just because you're not the first does not mean you'll be the last.....as that's the concept of groups bringing up concepts that really are not NEW but simply re-packaged...or things which others before them brought up and yet that was lost - and hence, it was emphasized in a new era.

    [​IMG]

    Martin Luther was already covered historically (including his contribution)- and as said before, if one does not address it, there's no need going back for it since it's a moot point. For Martin Luther was never the main one contributing as He did in the Reformation and you need evidence otherwise to go against that if making a claim on him. (Rather than just proclaiming alone a common theme of him being the only one proclaiming "Salvation by faith alone" - even though that's NOT what he said in detail and the entire story since he was not against works and did not proclaim Sola Fide )

    As one wisely pointed out when going through Luther's actual works:

    If the law were for the body, it could be satisfied with works; but since it is spiritual, no one can satisfy it, unless all that you do is done from the bottom of the heart. But such a heart is given only by God’s Spirit, who makes man equal to the law, so that he acquires a desire for the law in his heart, and henceforth does nothing out of fear and compulsion, but everything out of a willing heart (xiv).

    Accustom yourself, then, to this language, and you will find that doing the works of the law and fulfilling the law are two very different things. The work of the law is everything that one does, or can do toward keeping the law of his own free will or by his own powers. … That is what St. Paul means in chapter 3, when he says, “By the works of the law no man becomes righteous before God” (xv).


    More can be seen here in Fr. Ernesto Obregon: An Orthodox View of the Issues In Sola Fide | internetmonk.com:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1ZobITmLeA


    Already mentioned that - just as Christ is the head of the Church and every good movement from Him. And as all people discuss GLORIFY Christ and proclaim Him as the center, it seems you're looking for something in a certain format and assuming from there that something hasn't been said

    Seeing that others within the Faith Movement already noted the same and HAVE done so WHEN IT COMES ot historical basis, if you're not going to deal with history, you really are not dealing with the WOF movement on its own terms since it did not magically come out of nowhere.

    Thus far, you've not dealt with the actual evidence on what others have actually said in history - or disproved it - when it comes to clear concepts/teachings taught in the WOF movement that were already taught before in earlier ones (as other WOFers have already pointed out).

    Publication of "AUTHORITY of a Believer" was NEVER the only - nor was even the main text since you also had "Zoe Life", "When the Devil Steals Your Joy" and several others used prominently and consistently throughout the Faith Movement. Starting with a list of books made in succession by only TWO leaders in the WOF movement is not the same as showing all of those who were leaders in the WOF movement - it definitely doesn't deal with Oral Roberts in Tulsa or T.L Osborn abroad or Lester Sumrall who all made publications in successive order - and growing up in the Faith movement, we access to Hagin/Copeland just as with the other leaders.

    As said before, if making sweeping claims, it would behoove you to give actual evidence and not just talk on a major publication as if that was all of what others in the Faith Movement read/spoke about - that's not even what TBN promoted on their broadcasts, nor is it what Hagin spoke on when referencing other spiritual giants IN HIS BOOKS such as Smith Wigglesworth and others from the 19th century - as another WOF mentioned earlier. In Kenneth Hagin's book, ZOE: the God-Kind of Life (1981) on p40, Hagin teaches about taking your authority when saying "Even many in the great body of Full Gospel people do not know that the new birth is a real incarnation. They do not know they are as much sons and daughters of God as Jesus. ... Jesus was first divine, and then He was human. So He was in the flesh a divine-human being. I was first human, and so were you, but I was born of God, and so I became a human-divine being! God is living in us!" He goes on to quote Wigglesworth when saying "No wonder Smith Wigglesworth said, "I'm a thousand times bigger on the inside than I am on the outside." He was realizing that he was a human-divine being. And the divine part was a thousand times bigger than the human part."

    And In Ever Increasing Faith, a compilation of Wigglesworth sermons, on p 95 he says, "The very life of Christ has been put within us..., for the life that is in me is a thousand times bigger than I am outside." You do realize Smith Wigglesworth preceded the WOF movement by a significant amount of time - yet his concepts were consistently referenced by Hagin since the concept of Faith and Authority did not BEGIN with WOF

    Copeland referenced Pentecostal healers like Smith Wigglesworth as well..and so did Creflo Dollar


    Kenneth Copeland retells Smith Wigglesworth raising a man from the dead - YouTube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBAeBE2VwNE

    Jesus is always at the center - but as said before, if discussing on WOF Family Tree, it may be helpful to engage with the tree/the differing influences that come from many places of it - as the scriptures you gave are good but they do not change the reality of others who shaped the WOF movement through Christ.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2015
  7. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

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    If one is going to look for post-biblical origins of Word-Faith teaching then it is best to start with the church fathers. Many of them taught mountain moving faith, miracles, and authority over the devil. As one author notes:

    "Fearing the Lord," says Hermas, "you will have dominion over the Devil; for there is no power in him." This view of Hermas may be said to have been entertained by all the great minds of the Church in all subsequent periods.​

    So, if one is interested in origins, going to the CFs will prove helpful.
     
  8. AbbaLove

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    Perhaps, you were a bit too hasty in wrongly assuming I hadn’t digested the content of this thread with its twists and turns. Which of your previous posts clarified your view of “in all expressions” with respect to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and divine healing being instrumental to the WOF Movement?
    Such a list of Who’s Who could include more than we could ever list considering your thread’s closing title “in all expressions.”

    Thus my reason for mentioning Luther was to get some idea of your concept of “in all expressions” in that I assumed you were including John Wesley. Was Wesley any more influential than Martin Luther when it comes to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and the Authority of the Believer as being part and parcel to the WOF Movement and divine healing as associated with Wigglesworth and Hagin.

    If on the other hand you believe “in all expressions” should include John Wesley, but exclude Martin Luther please explain. Luther’s revelation that the “just shall live by faith” as opposed to hinging one’s salvation to a religious system of man-made rules and dogma was quite a revelation at the time. It would not be an understatement to say that Luther’s Theses of 95 grievances against the RCC was the impetus that sparked a Protestant WOF movement of sorts that influenced Wesley and other men of faith.

    The man most often mentioned as the “forefather” of the modern WOF Movement and divine healing is Smith Wigglesworth. Kenneth E. Hagin’s name is often mentioned as the “founder” of the WOF Movement with its initial emphasis on divine healing.

    The WOF Magazine in a series of very interesting articles recounts the following:

    On Saturday, April 22, 1933, at age 15, Kenneth Hagin became bedfast, died, went to hell three times, and was born again. He then remained bedfast for another sixteen months suffering from two serious heart problems and an incurable heart disease before being healed by the Power of God.

    Later Hagin often recounted that he was a “Baptist boy reading my Grandmothers ‘Methodist’ Bible” before he was healed. Granny would prop him up in bed and bring her Bible for him to read. At first he could only read for ten minutes at a time as he couldn’t see after that. The one verse that he was drawn to time and again over the months he was bedfast was Mark 11:24. Like Wigglesworth (feelings vs faith) Hagin’s healing and lifelong ministry was empowered by his unwavering Faith in the Word and not emotional feelings.

    As a young Baptist preacher, who believed in divine healing Hagin associated with Full Gospel people who like him believed in divine healing. It was at a Full Gospel preacher’s house where Hagin eagerly sought and received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in other tongues not long after he was healed.
    On Saturday, September 2, 1950 as Kenneth Hagin was conducting a tent revival in Rockwell, Texas, Jesus appeared to him in a vision. A detailed account of his overwhelming and sobering vision was printed “From the Archives” in four issues of The Word of Faith magazine beginning in the November 2001 issue and ending in the March 2002 issue. “Dad” Hagin talks about the scroll that was given to him in his vision as “a roll of paper being twelve or fourteen inches long.” He recounts considerable detail about his encounter with Jesus, what was written on the scroll concerning America and future events before Christ’s soon return. You can also read more about his 1950 vision at: https://www.facebook.com/ShepherdPrayer/posts/578644582181613

    The seventh vision when the Lord appeared to "Dad" Hagin was in December, 1962. You can read an account of this vision at:
    Hagin's Vision

    Again, it would be helpful if a regular WOF forum member clarify whether or not “in all expressions” should be confined to those men that experienced the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and an anointing impartation of a supernatural Gift such as being used as a conduit for divine healing. Correct me if i’m wrong, but it's my understanding that the phrase "Authority of the Believer" is a key phrase of the WOF Movement of the 70s and 80s and still today among WOF congregations.

     
  9. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    Very, very true what it is that you noted - as this is something many in the WOF Movement (when I was growing up in it) noted as it concerns the reality of history alone and seeing what the Early Church emphasized - be it with miracles honoring Christ, the concept of God's authority for His saints or walking in faith and a hsot of many other things...as discussed before in the thread entitled Is there a GENUINE argument against WoF? (WOF ONLY) and Joseph Prince interpretation of 1 John 1:9 and even Sabbath rest, tithes and such (as it concerns the concepts of sowing/reaping and tithing - emphasized in the Faith Movement). On the Church Fathers, one can consider Irenaues as it concerns the Power of God...

    On Book 2, Chapter 32, section 4
    Those who are truly his disciples, receive grace from him,....perform works in his name, in order to promote the welfare of others, according to the gift that each one has received from Him. Some truly and certinally cast out devils. The result is that those who have been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe and join themselves to the church...still others heal the sick by laying their hands upon them, and the sick are made whole. What is more, as I have said, even the dead have been raised up and remained among us for years. What more can I say? it is not possible to name the number of gifts which the church throughout the whole world has received from God, in the name of Jesus Christ. irenaeus (c180, e/w) 1.409, Irenaues against heresies

    More from Ireneaus in Book 4, Chapter 11:

    For as God is always the same, so also man, when found in God, shall always go on towards God. For neither does God at any time cease to confer benefits upon, or to enrich man; nor does man ever cease from receiving the benefits, and being enriched by God. For the receptacle of His goodness, and the instrument of His glorification, is the man who is grateful to Him that made him; and again, the receptacle of His just judgment is the ungrateful man, who both despises his Maker and is not subject to His Word; who has promised that He will give very much to those always bringing forth fruit, and more [and more] to those who have the Lord's money. Well done, He says, good and faithful servant: because you have been faithful in little, I will appoint you over many things; enter into the joy of your Lord. Matthew 25:21, etc. The Lord Himself thus promises very much.

    If, therefore, in the present time also, God, knowing the number of those who will not believe, since He foreknows all things, has given them over to unbelief, and turned away His face from men of this stamp, leaving them in the darkness which they have themselves chosen for themselves, what is there wonderful if He did also at that time give over to their unbelief, Pharaoh, who never would have believed, along with those who were with him? As the Word spoke to Moses from the bush: And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, unless by a mighty hand. Exodus 3:19 And for the reason that the Lord spoke in parables, and brought blindness upon Israel, that seeing they might not see, since He knew the [spirit of] unbelief in them, for the same reason did He harden Pharaoh's heart; in order that, while seeing that it was the finger of God which led forth the people, he might not believe, but be precipitated into a sea of unbelief, resting in the notion that the exit of these [Israelites] was accomplished by magical power, and that it was not by the operation of God that the Red Sea afforded a passage to the people, but that this occurred by merely natural causes

    CHURCH FATHERS: Against Heresies, IV.29 (St. Irenaeus)

    Something to keep in mind when it comes to realizing how things did not just die out within the early centuries of the Church.

    And as it concerns authority, I am reminded of one story that comes to mind involving one of the Desert Fathers playing with snakes/dangerous beasts like they were pets (specifically, one of the Fathers who used to tell of a certain Abba Paul, from lower Egypt, who lived in the Thebaid and who used to take various kinds of snakes in his hands) - and yet when questioned on it, he said it was how the Lord designed it since animals respond to believers who know their authority and help animals to see their own authority (more shared here and here in In the Heart of the Desert: The Spirituality of the Desert Fathers ... - Page 85

    As said in one book discussing the matter:


    When it comes to relating to the animals, there is an abundance of information about the connection that the desert dwellers enjoyed with their co-inhabitants of the desert.

    One of the Fathers used to tell of a certain Abba Paul, from lower Egypt, who lived in the Thebaid. He used to take various kinds of snakes in his hands… . The brothers made a prostration before him, asking: “Tell us what you have done to receive this grace.” He said: “Forgive me, Fathers, but if someone acquires purity, then everything is in submission to that person, just as it was for Adam when he was in paradise before the transgression of the commandment.”

    Abba Antony also said: “Obedience with abstinence gives people authority even over wild beasts.”

    Antony knew the truth of this statement. He had persuaded the animals in his region to live at peace with him and no longer to disturb him. In fact, the notion of being like Adam, before he fell from the graceful condition he enjoyed in paradise, is the ideal to which the desert elders aspired.

    God gave mankind dominion over creation - and it's amazing when men choose to take that back....but again, they had a different understanding of what it meant to walk after the Lord than many do today...

    In the circles that are Liturgical and emphasize the CFs a lot (as with the Orthodox or the Catholics), I am always amazed considering those in those circles who have never been unfamilar with the Charismatic emphasis present in that world - including acts of faith - as it was something that always perplexed me when others found it odd that Benny Hinn (who grew up Catholic) worked with Catholic nuns at his Healing meetings since I saw Catholics in action and they were aware of how much the Early Church Fathers (Church mothers as well, by the way :) ) knew the Power of God. It is not a small thing to see how even Hinn grew up at Catholic schools/grew up in a Greek Orthodox Middle Eastern family - and STILL works with the nuns while also being in the Faith Movement...'...a










    The ways that the Charismatic and Litrugical often intersect is a very intriguing dynamic, with differing expressions and trajectories for whether you are coming into one from the other or vice versa (i.e. coming into the Charismatic from the Liturgical or the Liturgical from the Charismatic) - some notable examples are people like John Crowder when it comes to the Mystic camp he comes from in Evangelical culture, even though some do not understand where he comes from when it comes to being very much reflective of what happens in much of Orthodoxy and the Church Fathers/Christian Mystics in the Early Church noting how Christ holds all things together, more shared in Miracle Workers, Reformers and the New Mystics....and Spirit Week: The Complete Series. I first heard of when exploring the International House of Prayer movement - in part influenced by Larry Lea - and he was a very intriguing figure. He essentially was advocating the concept of Theosis from Eastern Orthodoxy while also noting sanctification from the Wesleyan perspective - and basically walking out what many in the early Church did when essentially "living in the Wild" free....serving Christ in his love..... he really understood other saints in the Body of Christ, St. Patrick especially, who went into very wild/intensive areas where people were not reached - and knowing the resources they had in the church, those saints were able to build from the ground up/do unprecedented things when they had little to work with ....they understood presence of God and the overwhelming Love of God when it comes to Christ's love holding us together).

    But with the mutual influencing of theologies, some of this has been discussed elsewhere, as seen here and here (when discussing the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement and differing aspects of it - including the Faith Movement - within the world of Ancient Christianity)


    Seeing the work of God in circles understanding the CFs and valuing them when walking in great faith is not really odd when considering circumstances and background - .how the Prosperity Theology came in Malaysia during an economic boom in the 1980s/1990s and elsewhere like after the People Power Revolution in the Philippines that set the stage for it spreading because of government focus on advancing physical/material well-being and not wishing to promote "victim mentalities" above self-help after coming out of a dictatorship/not having freedom to advance.....and this can be seen easily in the El Shaddai movement in the Philippines (as El Shaddai's popularity among the Filipino urban poor and aspiring middle classes was stunning) - a movement which was a ROMAN Catholic Charismatic manifestation of the prosperity message - more discussed best in Global Pentecostalism in the 21st Century and Everyday Life in Southeast Asia or Blessed: A History of the American Prosperity Gospel .....


    All of that is, of course, mentioned to bring home the point you made when it comes to remembering the CFs in their words/actions and seeing that they (living within a Liturgical context) were still as powerful today in miracle working as others were. St. Symeon the New Theologian always comes to mind among others - more shared in The Charismata in Church History
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  10. Truthfrees

    Truthfrees Well-Known Member Supporter

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    :thumbsup:
     
  11. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

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    Church Father Tatian (120-180) was not a fan of the medical practices of his time. He believed that sickness was caused by demons and that medicine was a satanic art form:

    But medicine and everything included in it is an invention of the same kind. If any one is healed by matter, through trusting to it, much more will he be healed by having recourse to the power of God.
    Tatian, Discourse to the Greeks, Chapter 18

    Why is he who trusts in the system of matter not willing to trust in God? For what reason do you not approach the more powerful Lord, but rather seek to cure yourself, like the dog with grass, or the stag with a viper, or the hog with river-crabs, or the lion with apes? Why you deify the objects of nature? And why, when you cure your neighbour, are you called a benefactor? Yield to the power of the Logos! The demons do not cure, but by their art make men their captives.
    Tatian, Discourse to the Greeks, Chapter 18​

    You can see that Tatian believed in divine healing by faith and taught to trust God rather than medicine. This would be controversial in our day, even among the WoF movement. However, most medicine back in those days was best on demonism. So it is great to see how strong healing by faith in God's power was back in the first and second century of the church.
     
  12. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

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    There is one by Tertullian that I don't feel like typing up right now but here is a copy and paste from an online book by the famous protestant reformer, Martin Luther:

    The physicians in sicknesses consider but only out of what natural causes and from whence a sickness cometh, the same they will cure with their physic, and they do right therein; but they see not that oftentimes the devil casteth a sickness upon one's neck, when it hath no natural cause; therefore a higher physic must be required to resist the devil's diseases; namely, faith and prayer, which physic may be fetched out of God's Word.
    The familiar discourses of dr. Martin Luther, p. 400​
     
  13. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

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    More from church father Tatian:

    I do not wish to be a king; I am not anxious to be rich; I decline military command; I detest fornication; I am not impelled by an insatiable love of gain to go to sea; I do not contend for chaplets; I am free from a mad thirst for fame; I despise death; I am superior to every kind of disease.... We were not created to die, but we die by our own fault. Our free-will has destroyed us; we who were free have become slaves; we have been sold through sin. Nothing evil has been created by God; we ourselves have manifested wickedness; but we, who have manifested it, are able again to reject it.​

    Tatian says that he is superior to disease. This sounds like something you would hear from Kenneth Copeland. Furthermore, Tatian says that God is not the cause of death or any other evil. This is the result of our own personal choices.
     
  14. victoryword

    victoryword Senior Veteran

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    More from Church Father Tatian:

    Being armed with the breastplate of the celestial Spirit, he will be able to preserve all that is encompassed by it. There are, indeed, diseases and disturbances of the matter that is in us; but, when such things happen, the demons ascribe the causes of them to themselves, and approach a man whenever disease lays hold of him. Sometimes they themselves disturb the habit of the body by a tempest of folly; but, being smitten by the word of God, they depart in terror, and the sick man is healed.
    Chapter 17​
     
  15. hhodgson

    hhodgson Semper-fi Supporter

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    The Word of Faith puzzle...

    It's amazing Troy, how far one can go in Church history to see "Wof seed" that was sown over the century's (unknowingly) form hundreds of Church forefathers in it's beginning. One can see that there were "seeds" through Church Father Tatian as you brought out that he believed in divine healing by faith and taught to trust God rather than medicine. We have multitudes in Churches today that still do not believe in "divine healing" which is to me... a significant (seed) of the WoF founders, co-founders puzzle. Over the years there are thousands of individual pieces of the puzzle that led to Word of Faith as we know it. I can see why (dkbwarrior) said that he often would cringe when people start talking of WoF founders. To me, it's seed begetting seed. I use the puzzle analogy because that's the way I look at it. One huge puzzle with many pieces... and most all of the pieces from the beginning of Church history, in someway contributed (some more than others) to Word of Faith as we see it today.

    To go back a little further to Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-165) who mentored Father Tatian. Tatian adopted the Christian religion and became the pupil of Justin Martyr. They both opened Christian schools in Rome (Wikipedia). Martyr was a defender of the Christian faith. It is in the second apology that we find some significant comments...
    "For numberless demoniacs throughout the whole world, and in your city, many of our Christian men exorcising them in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal, rendering helpless and driving the possessing devils out of the men." Apol. II. Chapter 6.
    Also in his dialogue with Trypho he says...
    "For the prophetical gifts remain with us even to the present time." Later in the same work, he says, "Now it is possible to see among us women and men who possess gifts of the Spirit of God." Also "[Christians] are also receiving gifts, each as he is worthy, illuminated through the name of this Christ. For one receives the spirit of understanding, another of counsel, another strength, another healing, another of foreknowledge, another of teaching and another of the fear of God." Dialogue with Trypho, Sect. 39
    So in both of these Troy, (Martyr and Tatian), we can see faith healings, casting out demons, exercising the gifts of the Spirit were common in their circle. ( Seed begetting seed). Attributes to WoF.

    Some say E.W. Kenyon is the father of WoF. Others say Kenneth E Hagin was. Joe McIntyre suggests that Kenyon developed his positive confession teaching primarily from the teachings of Holiness Movement, Faith Cure and Higher Life movement ministers of the late 19th Century (E.W. Kenyon and His Message of Faith: The True Story. 1997). Kenneth E. Hagin was mentored (influenced) by Kenyon even though (to my knowledge) they never met. Kenneth Copeland was mentored (influenced) by Hagin. So the list goes on with... Frederick K.C. Price, Copeland, Savelle, Dollar, Moore, Winston, and numerous others.

    Is there really "one" person (or even 10) that can be credited as WoF founders? Which one? Which 10? To me in this many piece puzzle, they ALL play a part of WoF roots. Hagin obviously became the center piece when he (put it all) together from each of the other's contributions (black, white or other) over the century's of Church growth.

    Gxg (G2) has done an exceptional work in this thread on the history and roots (all of them) in the beginnings of the WoF movement.

    One final thought Troy...

    So, if Kenneth E. Hagin is credited as the modern founding father (however one looks at it), then the Apostle Paul would be the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, "grandfather" who (actually founded) Word of Faith from the beginning. Right?
    Romans 10:8
    But what says it? The word is near you, even in your mouth, and in your heart: the Word of Faith which we preach;
    Any thoughts..?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2015
  16. Truthfrees

    Truthfrees Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Well then Jesus is before Paul. :D

    And Jesus only said what the Father told Him to say. ;)
     
  17. now faith

    now faith Veteran Supporter

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    Mark: 11. 22. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.


    The first Word of Faith :thumbsup:
     
  18. hhodgson

    hhodgson Semper-fi Supporter

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    THE WORD OF FAITH

    So there we have it. The founding father of Word of Faith is the FATHER... Himself...​

    And God said... "Let there be light!" (Genesis 1:3) ​

    even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (Romans 4:17)​

     
  19. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Ambassadors

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    [/QUOTE]Concerning what was shared earlier,

    When it comes to patristics, one thing that should always be kept in mind is the fact that not every Church Father was ever held in the same regard. In example, Tatian was one who was Assyrian (i.e. not a part of the Orthodox Church or Byzantine system) and he was actually considered a herectic in his time - despite where his efforts helped the Church. This happens a lot when it comes to differences within the Church - and although Tatian was once a one-time protege of Justin of Martyr, he ended up having a fall-out later on when he started to go into areas which the Early Church found to be very questionable....and later became associated with the Assyrian Church of the East (which was not in agreement with Rome). Specifically, Tatian was reported to have become an Encratite (an ascetic 2nd century sect of Christians who forbade marriage and counselled abstinence from meat) - as Irenaeus makes mention of this Tatian in Against Heresies 1.28.1. Of course, with Tatian, he was very on point (IMHO) when it comes to the subject of free will - as he addressed pagans who blamed everything on “fate" and Tatian answered that our miseries are our own fault - in light of the fact that our own free will brought evil into the world—but our own free will can reject evil. Additionally, as it concerns his connection with the Assyrian Church of the East (if wanting to know more on them), I'd say that One excellent resource is [/url] East Meets East: What East Meets East is about , which focuses on showing the history of interaction and what people can learn on the matter. For them, they've been on their own long before the Great Schism and have experienced many things other parts of the Body have not.








    Being Orthodox, Patristics is one of those topics where you have to always be wise in how to go about it since not every Church Father was always held with the same esteem - whereas others ended up going into A LOT of craziness later on that did harm and others who were accused of mess had to unfortunately deal with a lot of false accusations on people not understanding what they were about. They are all vastly different and some are not known as well - with many within the Protestant world often coming to pick & choose among the fathers and yet not seeing them as a whole for what they were...but the Fathers are amazing and I tend to lean toward the Syriac Fathers myself.



    There's actually an excellent book on the subject which I have greatly enjoyed and found insightful - as seen in the work by Ronald Kydd called Charismatic Gifts in the Early Church: The Gifts of the Spirit in the First 300 Years (more shared here)


    [​IMG]



    He also has another which is really beneficial entitled Healing through the Centuries: Models for Understanding (more shared here).

    Others have spoken on the issue in-depth. As said more in-depth by another who recommended the book (as said for a brief excerpt):

    The presence of Montanism in the early church also provides us with evidence of the continuing operation of the gifts of the Spirit. Aside from the Montanists themselves, numerous church fathers regard the gifts as still valid. For example:

    • Justin Martyr (a.d. 100-165) boasted to the Jewish Trypho "that the prophetic gifts remain with us" (Dialogue with Trypho, 82).

    Irenaeus (a.d. 120-200) also bears witness to the presence of the gifts of the Spirit. He writes:

    • ·"We have heard of many of the brethren who have foreknowledge of the future, visions, and prophetic utterances; others, by laying-on of hands, heal the sick and restore them to health" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).
    • ·"We hear of many members of the church who have prophetic gifts, and, by the Spirit speak with all kinds of tongues, and bring men's secret thoughts to light for their own good, and expound the mysteries of God" (Against Heresies, 5:6,1).
    • ·"It is impossible to enumerate the charisms which throughout the world the church has received from God" (Against Heresies, 2:32,4).
    • Eusebius himself concludes that the charismata were all still in operation down to the time in which Irenaeus lived (Ecclesiastical History, 5:7,6).
    • Apollinarius is quoted by Eusebius as saying that "the prophetic gifts must continue in the church until the final coming, as the apostle insists" (EH, 5:16,7).

    Epiphanius, perhaps the most vocal opponent of the Montanists, did not attack them because they practiced the gifts of the Spirit. Indeed, he declared that "the charism [of prophecy] is not inoperative in the church. Quite the opposite. . . . The holy church of God welcomes the same [charisms] as the Montanists, but ours are real charisms, authenticated for the church by the Holy Spirit" (Panarion, 48).

    Ironically, one of the principal reasons why the church became suspect of the gifts of the Spirit and eventually excluded them from the life of the church is because of their association with Montanism. The Montanist view of prophecy, in which the prophet entered a state of passive ecstasy in order that God might speak directly, was a threat to the church's belief in the finality of the canon of Scripture. Other unappealing aspects of the Montanist lifestyle, as noted above, provoked opposition to the movement and hence to the charismata. In sum, it was largely the Montanist view of the prophetic gift, in which a virtual "Thus saith the Lord" perspective was adopted, that contributed to the increasing absence in church life of the charismata.


    There are others who live out this principle, to be clear. And in example, one can consider others such as Orthodox Evangelist Charles Omuroka (who operates within Africa....more here, here and here) as well as Fr. Eusebius Stephanou of the Brotherhood of St. Symeon the New Theologian

    And for others who've spoken on the issue:


    Good thoughts...:thumbsup:

    Things shift and they merge in so many differing ways....

    And it is truly a puzzle. On the rest of what you said, I definitely agree that Hagin would technically have to see St. Paul as the great, great, great grandfather in regards to WOF​
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  20. Simon the Tanner

    Simon the Tanner Aspiring Apologist / Theoretical Theologian

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    Good topic. I graduated from Rhema in 1984. Although the doctrinal seeds can be found as far back as the 19th century, I think most would consider Kenneth Hagin as the founder of the Word of Faith movement. His radio teaching and writing popularized the message, and when he began his bible school and campmeetings in the 70s the movement ensued. One problem that we have in the WoF is that there is less accountability due to the fact that it's not a denomination. That presents a problem when certain televangelists and high profile ministers say irresponsible things. How do you correct them?
     
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