Founders: Family Tree within WOF and examining Who Founded WOF in all expressions?

Gxg (G²)

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Shalom :)

Concerning why I made this thread (in light of what was stated elsewhere on founders - including people like William Seymour), I was writing due to seeing if others here would be willing to address the subject of who is - or isn't - foundational to the world of WOF. I ask this due to how it has been brought up a number of times that the only founders in the WOF Movement are those such as Capps, Hagin and Copeland.

Moreover, it has been said by others that those NOT listening solely to those groups are not really seeing what the Faith Movement is about. However, growing up, I was a part of the Faith Movement that did not emphasize those individuals solely. I grew up with others such as T.L Osborn and Creflo Dollar. I also grew up with people like Lester Sumrall (with others under him such as Pastor Jason Kerr of Global Force Ministries....we're actually friends since he came to our youth camps as well as working with Paul and Jan Crouch and Jessie Duplantis and being on TBN on a number of occassions :) - here as an example ). I also grew up with books from others like Jerry Savelle (who wrote "If Satan can't steal your joy" - a read that really blessed my mom when she was single) and I grew around folks like Larry Lea in his focus on prayer and ministries like Jentezen Franklin's (which I learned from friends/family in the Brownsville Revival), T.D Jakes of the Potter's House, Jack Hayford, Tommy Tenny of the book "God Chasers" (when I was in high school) and others such as G.Craig Lewis /the WOF era he's from (in connection with Fredrick Price. Jr) and Fredrick Price/Bill Winston. And as it concerns the issues of how things developed, we tended to emphasize differently than other groups. We were all aware, of course, about other leaders in the movement - but it was never the case that there were battles over who was or wasn't the founders. Others learned from people in one earlier era - but then evolved into a different strain due to the location they were in. Some in the WOF movement ended up working with people who were Catholics - whereas others also worked with groups who were Evangelical and the list goes on....

And for others, they did ecumenical work with a number of differing groups simply by virture of the reality of Network T.V/Media - as TBN was the main place for many in the Faith Movement to share their views and they did so in unison with other ministers who may have disagreed with them on a couple of issues. Many were involved in working with differing fields OUTSIDE of WOF....and sadly, when an opinion is given by others supporting certain camps of WOF, people automatically caricature in thinking "Well, they aren't WOF...."..just like others do when saying someone else isn't American because their experience of America differs from their own sub-culture.


What is interesting is considering how many of those who were considered founders saw the ones they worked alongside as also helping in the beginnings of the WOF movement. In example, it is interesting seeing how Kenneth Hagin preached at 5 AOG's for about 12 years - with the framework from the AOG giving the platform for Hagin to develop his views. And for those liking T.L Osborn, it is interesting that R.W. Schambach was an AOG Pentecostal AND he preached at AoG churches - with him working alongside T.L. Osborn and spending many years holding tent revivals and healing services in various cities and them being seen as a team - JOINTLY spreading the messages that were a part of WOF (in the same way others like Paul and Barnabas or Paul and Silas or John and Peter were seen as duo teams for the Gospel). Thus, it can be odd whenever others seem to assume it has to be only ONE person who gets credit for all things - and even more odd whenever the movements preceding them that shaped them are ignored as if they came up with things entirely on their own.

And although I've disagreed a number of times with the individual, one of my friends from CARM (who grew up in the WOF Movement and Rhema) did do a pretty good job of summarizing a lot of the differing ways that things evolved in the WOF Movement. In his words:

  • Kenneth Hagin lineage = Word Faith
  • Oral Roberts lineage = Seed Faith
  • Lester Sumrall lineage = Bold Faith

Each camp represented a different aspect. Hagin is WoF. The emphasis was on the faith in your words, as you spoke God's written or God inspired through an unction in your spirit words.

Oral taught words are seeds, you plant these seeds by speaking them. But you have to cultivate them, tend and keep them till Harvest.

Lester taught that your words are only as good as the boldness if your faith. Faith wasn't a force to him, Faith was forceful. It was demanding. It accepted no answer but obedience. It wasn't about words or seeds, but rather forcefulness.

.... Bob C. brought up some good points... who got the WoF message and principles out to the greater Pentecostal/Charismatic movement umbrella... Hagin's appeal went to WoF'ers only. If you're a purist of the movement you classify Hagin as purely the greatest influence on WoF... but capturing the message and teaching... in the purest sense doesn't make one the greatest.

Oral Roberts' Seed Faith theology is so intricately close to Hagin's Word Faith theology that the two marry in nicely within Charismatic circles... and why not, both theologies were influenced by William Branham in the Voice of Healing revivals of the 40's and 50's. At this time, before Pentecostalism broke with the movement over the Latter Rain teachings, Hagin and Roberts were squarely Pentecostal... or more precise Full Gospel. Full Gospel'izers at the time were not known for reading and promoting the works of Dowie, Murray, or Simpson, those who went before them with certain distinctives that would later be adopted into the movement through the personalities of the VoH proponents......

Lester Sumrall and his Bold Faith theology, like Hagin and Roberts, tie neatly with one another. To my knowledge Sumrall has no connection to Branham, to Kenyon, or to the Voice of Healing during the 1940's and 50's. Lester's pedigree stayed much more traditional Full Gospel, with his mentors being Howard Carter and Smith Wigglesworth. He was a pioneer of not only a Bold Faith theology television program, mega church, world evangelist presence, and the printed page... but a large scale short wave radio station and televisions stations that eventually could be considered broadcasting internationally in various places around the world. His LeSEA broadcasting influence in the united states had WIDE appeal with the Pentecostal/Charismatic Full Gospel peoples within the markets his television stations were placed. Unlike TBN these television stations had an emphasis on family programming that included old westerns like the Rifleman, or Bonanza. Also programs like a daily broadcast of the Wonderful World of Disney programs. But mixed in with this format were many WoF ministers broadcasts. Often the selection was very... well select. No John Avanzini types. No Leroy Thompson types. Recognized men like Hagin and the Roberts found a place on there. Broadcasts from the old Healing Revival days of Roberts Big Tent Revival meetings would be broadcast. Benny Hinn DID make it into the format... most often at less than peak time. But the full force of the programming took the form of three men. Les Feldick, Stephen Sumrall, and old Lester Sumrall classroom teachings. He is credited with being a major influence on several first and second tier WoF ministers over the last 50 years. From the likes of Rod Parsley to the lesser spoken of Norvel Hayes.

The scope of influence,acceptability, and credibility of Lester Sumrall's LeSEA broadcasting, and the continued influence of his schools, churches, and ministry outreaches in my opinion makes him the greatest on the bigger picture. Just my opinion.

The point is though, whether we're talking Hagin's empire, Roberts' empire, or Sumrall's empire... the three have blended and converged in such a manner as to be classified by the rank and file of both WoF adherents and critic alike as being the same thing. How did Hagin's Word Faith movement came to be the over arching marketed designation for all things "Faith" based within this realm? Simple... it is the most marketable when it comes to presenting itself as Biblical Faith.

All things considered, I did feel the summary was a noteworthy one - but where you're coming from can make the difference in whether you feel something is good....or choose to hate it. Again, I had family who grew up extensively within the movement. Had a friend YEARS ago go to Rhema Bible school and another I worked with who graduated from Rhema and knew T.L Osborn.

They differed greatly just as Evangelical colleges may have certain things taught - and yet not all look alike or teach the same/cover the same at all points. Of course, when it comes to larger events surrounding things like culture (i.e. Socieoeconomic background, middle class vs lower class, ethnicity, political leanings, etc.), that will always make a difference - and it will always be an issue when seeing how others (such as those in WOF from an Hispanic or Asian background) will not see things the same as those involved in white culture in dominant state.

The differences seem to extend even to eschatological views. In example, not all in WOF have ever accepted the Rapture view - and while some teach it, others have a POST-TRibulation viewpoint. Some WOF Churches believe that others will be saved during the 1,000yr reign of Christ while others believe no such thing will occur. Some teach children will be born during the time of Christ's return while others do not - and camps evolve as well, just as the way Baptists or Methodists look today is nowhere near the same as it used to be 100yrs ago.

Even within Church history, we see this plainly. It is common for the persecuted to become persecutors once they become the majority or a part of the accepted orthodoxy of the majority. The lineage of groups that are currently regarded as "cults" (using the word in its negative colloquial sense) is easily traceable to various denominations. For example, Jehovah's witnesses drew their theological foundations from Adventism and Presbyterianism. They also received their bible (initially the KJV and then later the ASV and finally the NWT) from Protestantism's 66 book bible. Christadelphians and Oneness Pentecostals also have their roots in denominations that are generally counted as within Protestant orthodoxy.

But how one can understand things to be in the present state of a group will always be connected in seeing their evolution - and knowing the ways that others within a group can even have differences between themselves. And this is a big deal, IMHO, when it comes to the world of WOF. Certain variations of WOF may be more closely connected to certain camps than others - even though we sharply disagree on others when we diverge. A strain within the Faith Movement that leans more so toward what's found in Third Wave circles or Neo-Charismatic circles isn't going to line up with other strains that went more so toward those camps in the extremes of Prosperity Theology - even though both camps have roots within much of what American culture focuses on with economic development and is connected to that


That said, the purpose of this thread is for others to share where they feel others are either NOT FOUNDERS or ARE FOUNDERS. Here are rules I ask for others to respect before joining:

  • Do not simply say someone is a founder or isn't. Please give evidence showing (in quotes) where others claimed themselves to be a founder of WOF
  • Show historically why someone considered themselves a founder
  • If you disagree with someone, please be respectful and do not go into the realm of fighting.

Again, the entire purpose of this thread is historical review - both showing where others interlock and where others feel people left, like roots on a tree. If you feel there are any charts available that explain the evolution of the WOF movement, by all means share:)

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victoryword

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Good discussion topic. I think Joe McIntyre did the best job of anyone of tracing the roots of the Faith Movement to its Holiness, Keswick, and Pentecostal movements.

Long before McIntyre's book, in the early 90s, I started reading all of A. B. Simpson's books. Simpson is the founder of the cm&da churches and one of the primary proponents of the Faith Cure Movement. This is the first Faith Movement. Simpson taught healing, faith confession and all that jazz.

I also read a lot of Andrew Murray and others of the Keswick movement. I was impressed with how close their teachings were to the modern faith teachers. It was Joe McIntyre's book on Kenyon showed me how the Holiness movements tie in to movement.
 
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Truthfrees

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From this site: Voices of the Faith Giants » YOUR SOURCE FOR:

Rev. and Mrs. J.R. Goodwin

1905 - 1994 and 1900 - 1979

The Rev. and Mrs. J.R. Goodwin--or Mom and Dad Goodwin as they were affectionately known--sat in the meetings of Smith Wigglesworth and other early Pentecostals, and served as a bridge to the Word of Faith Move that emerged in the 1970's and 1980's. They took Kenneth Hagin under their wing in 1938 and began teaching him about spiritual gifts. Hagin patterned his prophetic ministry after the flow he saw in the Goodwins. John Osteen--Joel Osteen's father--was filled with the Spirit in the Goodwins' living room, and preached his first Charismatic sermons from their pulpit. The Goodwins had a very strong prophetic and pastoral ministry. They mentored Kenneth Hagin, John Osteen, Marilyn Hickey, Don and Beverly Davis, Joe Jordan, Billye Brim, Elizabeth Pruitt-Sloan, Mel Montgomery, and others.​
 
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Truthfrees

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From the same site:
F. F. Bosworth

1877 - 1958

F. F. Bosworth was filled with the Spirit under Charles Parham's ministry. He visited the Azusa Street Revival, and had a powerful healing ministry in the 1920's and 1930's. He wrote the classic "Christ the Healer." During the Healing Revival of the 1940's and 1950's, Bosworth came out of retirement to mentor and minister with a young Oral Roberts and T.L. Osborn.

I mention Bosworth because he influenced Copeland indirectly through Oral Roberts.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Good discussion topic. I think Joe McIntyre did the best job of anyone of tracing the roots of the Faith Movement to its Holiness, Keswick, and Pentecostal movements.

Long before McIntyre's book, in the early 90s, I started reading all of A. B. Simpson's books. Simpson is the founder of the cm&da churches and one of the primary proponents of the Faith Cure Movement. This is the first Faith Movement. Simpson taught healing, faith confession and all that jazz.

I also read a lot of Andrew Murray and others of the Keswick movement. I was impressed with how close their teachings were to the modern faith teachers. It was Joe McIntyre's book on Kenyon showed me how the Holiness movements tie in to movement.
I thought what Simpson had to say on the issue of the Faith Cure Movement was very brilliant when showing the beginnings of the Faith Movement - although I would argue that the concepts of healing would go back further than Simpson, all the way to William Seymour...and George Washington Carver as well, as he did healing revivals. Andrew Murray is another interesting character when it comes to what he advocated.

On Joe McIntyre, wasn't he against the Faith Movement?
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Joe McIntyre wrote a book refuting the lies told on Kenyon and traced the moment back to its holiness, faith cure, and Pentecostal roots.
:doh:'

My bad - as it has been a long time since reviewing that book and the name. But I remember back in 2008 going over it now and seeing your review on the work. It was very good in content and tracing roots and I've seen Joe's church - interesting. Thanks for that :)

Concerning Kenyon, I'm aware of how he became a popular evangelist, preaching, for example, in the churches of A. B. Simpson
(a leading and radical advocate of the “faith-cure” message and the founder of the Christian & Missionary Alliance) and Aimee Semple McPherson (founder of the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel, one of the major Pentecostal denomination) - with his influence widespread. Moreover, the movement grew rapidly in the 1970s, in large part through the promotion of Word-Faith preachers by the Trinity Broadcasting Network founded by Paul Crouch in 1973. What cannot be disputed is that the WOF movement had partial origins in Holiness/Pentecostalism and 19th century American revivalism. Because of the early beginnings of the movement having so many intersections throughout the Pentecostal and the Charismatic movements, it can be hard to narrow down - although there are others I think do a great job tracing things down. I appreciated the review of Derek E. Vreeland in Reconstructing Word of Faith. Additionally, others do a great job showing the global origins of the Word-Faith movement when it comes to differing cultures - such as Allan Heaton Anderson of To the Ends of the Earth: Pentecostalism and the Transformation of World Christianity

I also appreciate, as it concerns tracing the origins of the WOF movement to other leaders such as John G. Lake (often quoted by Hagin) when it comes to the concepts of faith expressed - as said best in Spirit Cure: A History of Pentecostal Healing

Additionally, as it concerns the reality of how experiences for African-Americans and Blacks in general often differed from whites in the WOF Movement (due to the larger over-arching influence of racial lack of integration and understanding that was present in earlier parts of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movements....examples being Seymour vs. Charles Parham) and others like Dr.Fred Price brought WOF to the African American community, I thought some of the best reads on the matter were Black Fire: One Hundred Years of African American Pentecostalism by Estrelda Alexander and Righteous Riches : The Word of Faith Movement in Contemporary African American Religion
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Gxg (G²);66817213 said:
Shalom :)

Concerning why I made this thread, I was writing due to seeing if others here would be willing to address the subject of who is - or isn't - foundational to the world of WOF. I ask this due to how it has been brought up a number of times that the only founders in the WOF Movement are those such as Capps, Hagin and Copeland.

...

That said, the purpose of this thread is for others to share where they feel others are either NOT FOUNDERS or ARE FOUNDERS. Here are rules I ask for others to respect before joining:

  • Do not simply say someone is a founder or isn't. Please give evidence showing (in quotes) where others claimed themselves to be a founder of WOF
  • Show historically why someone considered themselves a founder
  • If you disagree with someone, please be respectful and do not go into the realm of fighting
.

Well Gxg, it could be that the timing around Christmas slowed this down - although I doubt it since other threads exploded quite nicely.

This should be a really nice study, especially when we get past just naming names and bring in the historical context of what beliefs were embraced and propagated through the history of this movement.

Thanks to all who turned the key to start this car, but let's get it up to freeway speeds. I, for one, have a lot to learn here.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Well Gxg, it could be that the timing around Christmas slowed this down - although I doubt it since other threads exploded quite nicely.

This should be a really nice study, especially when we get past just naming names and bring in the historical context of what beliefs were embraced and propagated through the history of this movement.

Thanks to all who turned the key to start this car, but let's get it up to freeway speeds. I, for one, have a lot to learn here.
I feel you, ABM

Hoping that others join in and share their thoughts as the history is explored more...
 
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hhodgson

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Well Gxg, it could be that the timing around Christmas slowed this down - although I doubt it since other threads exploded quite nicely.

This should be a really nice study, especially when we get past just naming names and bring in the historical context of what beliefs were embraced and propagated through the history of this movement.

Thanks to all who turned the key to start this car, but let's get it up to freeway speeds. I, for one, have a lot to learn here.

You are not alone. There is a lot to absorb for sure. My head is still spinning
smiley68251_zpsojqm3etv.gif
with all the info. No complaints at all. Everyone keep it coming. My library is definitely filling up...





 
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Gxg (G²)

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You are not alone. There is a lot to absorb for sure. My head is still spinning
smiley68251_zpsojqm3etv.gif
with all the info. No complaints at all. Everyone keep it coming. My library is definitely filling up...





:)^_^
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Well Gxg, it could be that the timing around Christmas slowed this down - although I doubt it since other threads exploded quite nicely.

This should be a really nice study, especially when we get past just naming names and bring in the historical context of what beliefs were embraced and propagated through the history of this movement.

Thanks to all who turned the key to start this car, but let's get it up to freeway speeds. I, for one, have a lot to learn here.
If you have any you can think of who you would qualify as founders, I'd love to hear :)
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Gxg (G²);66836055 said:
If you have any you can think of who you would qualify as founders, I'd love to hear :)

I think a definition of "founder" is in line.

I think men like Smith Wigglesworth and William Seymour qualify as part-founders. We simply wouldn't be here without men such as these. They helped to move the power of the Holy Spirit to the front of man's consciousness.

I do feel, as I've said to Troy, that the foundation of Word of Faith was in place in the sixties, perhaps early seventies. So, of course, men like Hagin, Robert and Sumrall certainly need to be listed, with Hagin being the one who embodied the whole of Word/Faith.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I think a definition of "founder" is in line.

I think men like Smith Wigglesworth and William Seymour qualify as part-founders. We simply wouldn't be here without men such as these. They helped to move the power of the Holy Spirit to the front of man's consciousness.

I do feel, as I've said to Troy, that the foundation of Word of Faith was in place in the sixties, perhaps early seventies. So, of course, men like Hagin, Robert and Sumrall certainly need to be listed, with Hagin being the one who embodied the whole of Word/Faith.
I think a better description for others such as Wigglesworth (or John G. Lake) or Seymour (rather than founders) would be forefathers - or more specifically, the forefathers of the founding fathers ....if believing WOF began in the 60s/70s in its specific presentation. The forefathers had the architecture shaped in their time for the WOF movement to bloom in its time - and thus, indeed, they would part-founders.

Pentecostal healing evangelists who promoted faith as an active force bringing inevitable success/healing also served to set the stage for WOF - and thus, part of seeing the origins of the Faith movement would be to examine the extensive list of Pentecostal healing evangelists who spoke on faith.

I would say, of course, that the foundation of WOF was earlier than the 60s. It happened to bloom in the Post-Depression era and the economics of the day were a big factor in why certain thoughts came about. For the message was greatly attractive in post-Depression America - and Hagin himself was a product of the era. That opens the door for discussing the ways that others whom Hagin learned from and saw as inspirations (including those in the secular world) were also a factor in shaping things as they are. Brother dbkwarrior and I partially disucssed the matter as seen here:


I have often thought that this is one of the reasons that the prosperity message caught on with such vigour among the African American church. Historically, this community has been economically disadvantaged. The message of a God who empowers His people to prosper is a powerful draw to those that know what it means to truly struggle financially day to day.

I would note also, that the so-called father of the modern WOF movement, Kenneth Hagin, did not come from the affluent coastal areas of the United States, where white wealth is/was concentrated. He came from the poor areas of the southern midwest, where poeple of all colors by and large lived in rather abject poverty, from the time of the dust bowl. This is the crucible of struggle that produced the faith message, and motivated this man to believe God for His promises to be manifested in His life.

In either case, whether in the inception of the modern faith movement in the predominately white southern midwest; or its populaity among the centers of predominately African American city populations; or its utter explosion among the peoples of the third world; the message of faith, and prosperity, believing God for His promises to be manifested in ones life, whether white or black, or red or yellow or brown; the fact is, that the promises of God empower people to reach beyond their circumstance, for something better, in the belief that God desires the best for them, not the worst, and that He cares about their physical estate, and not just their spiritual state.

Peace...
Gxg (G²);60809661 said:
On the fascinating point you brought up concerning how Hagin came from poor areas growing up, something that came to my mind was how it seems interesting that people in the Charismatic movement/its many branches all have differing responses to economic situations. For there are many others who came from the same backgrounds as Hagin did....and yet their emotional/spiritual responses were radically different than others.

For more information, did you hear recently of the minister who was killed in a snake handling church? For more, one can go to 'Serpent-Handling' West Virginia Pastor Dies From Snake Bite


Seeing it, it made me think that there are times you see people do certain things and wonder "No surprise as to why alot of folks think Christians are tripping"....for after I heard this story from my sister, I don't know who I feel more sorry for: The victim or the snake who'll be demonized/take the fall when folks should have known the snake was probably warning folks he was not cool before he snapped.



But when processing the situation, I wanted to see first hand why people did as they did...and it was interesting to see how for them it was always a matter of wanting to demonstrate faith in the Lord.

For more on sharing why others handle snakes the way they do:






Obvious is the case that the Lord would not support what they did ...for while Jesus was in the wilderness (Matthew 4), he was tempted by Satan to display his power as the Son of God in various ways so that the people might believe. But Jesus rejected the method of tempting God by doing outrageous things to attract attention, like falling off the highest point of the Temple and having angels catch him...and the same would go for snake handling, as the verse in Mark 16:16-17 that snake handlers often cite was prophecy that was fulfilled in Acts 28:3 when the Apostle Paul was bitten by a poisonous snake and was miraculously spared (as he wasn't trying to be like the Crocodile Hunter and get bitten intentionally :) ).

Moreover, as there wasn't as much access to medical technology as is present today, having to rely more so on the Power of the Lord when only that was available gives more reason as to why picking up snakes/not being harmed had more relevance for believers then. If on the Mission field where similar circumstances occur, of course, that's another matter....
smile.png


And for others to assume that ALL Cases of handling snakes without fear is akin to the extremes found in churches doing so frequently would be error.....(in the same way people assume the extremes done in the name of Biblical prosperity are reflective of all in WOF and therefore conclude all in WOF teaching prosperity need to be condemned).​

But even for churches supporting snake handling despite what the scriptures said, I thought back on something I studied from one of my classes on Anthropology....for it was mentioned that one of the key reasons behind snake handling, crazy as it is, is the economics.​

Christian serpent handling, also known as the holiness movement, found a genesis in the founder of it, George Went Hensley...a man who began to practice the handling of snakes while still in the Church of God in Cleveland, Tennessee around 1909. The Church became aware of his practices and they repudiated him, taking steps to make sure that snake handling was prohibited in their church. Hensley then started his own holiness movement church in the 1920s. Other related serpent handling churches followed. What's interesting to consider is how many in anthropology have noted that those often into snake handling are located in areas where there is IMMENSE poverty. The people who joined the holiness churches early on were mostly rural coal miners, mill workers, factory workers and farmers of Scottish, Irish and English descent.​

Due to the poverty levels and extremes others live in---alongside having a lack of access to Biblical education---people may turn to snake handling and drinking poison as a means of making themselves feel confident in handling harsh situations. Their faith has been unshaken even when bitten, in fact they consider this an opportunity to prove that God is with them if they survive the bite. Many who used to do so actually walked away from it all in time as they were able to find jobs and grow in their economic status.......being able to go outside of where they were once limited to. For displacement from rural values and economic devestation may lead to differing behavioral patterns.​

Of course, it's not always the case that people for snake handling come from poor backgrounds. As said best in Snake Handlers Hang On in Appalachian Churches:
Serpent handling is always controversial and in many areas illegal, yet it shows no signs of disappearing from its traditional home in Appalachia, the mountainous regions of the Southeastern United States stretching from Georgia to Pennsylvani Junior G. McCormick is a serpent-handling pastor from Georgia. He explains that, for him, handling snakes is simply following the gospel to the letter. "Other folks don't do this because their churches don't believe, or it's just something they're scared of," he said. "They come to that scripture but want to jump over that part because it's a deadly thing."


(Practitioners, or self-described sign-followers, prefer the term serpent-handling to snake-handling noting that they incorporate poisonous reptiles not common snakes into religious worship.)

The practice began in the early 1900s. Its popularity has waxed and waned through the years. According to Ralph Hood, a professor of social psychology and the psychology of religion at the University of Tennessee, Chattanooga, serpent handling is currently at a fairly low ebb of popularity. Such fluctuations are characteristic of a faith that persists throughout Appalachia.

The perception that communities that practice serpent-handling church services are poor, isolated rural areas is simply no longer accurate, according to Hood.

"Historically that's where it emerged, but that's no longer the case," said Hood. "Some of these churches are near cities like Atlanta, Georgia, or Middlesboro, Kentucky—and the middle Appalachian region itself is less rural than it used to be. Serpent handling is no longer restricted to miners."
While a number of churches with small congregations around a dozen members survive throughout the heart of Appalachia, the faith is also practiced in adjacent states of Ohio and Alabama.
For places to go for understanding as to why people do as they do, one can go here to the following:​

That said, the way that Hagin sought to handle himself...as well as handling those who took what the Lord gave him and went to extremes with it....it's interesting that his background in impoverishment didn't cause him to try expressing faith in ways that were damaging like others did. He was about seeking to be prosperous, yet he understood ways to go about it in a reasonable manner....and even with others who took what he did the wrong way, part of being compassionate is recognizing why it may be that others can respond wrongly as they may when doing many things that are not necessary.​

Hope that made sense as to what I was trying to convey.​

That said, with Hagin, I don't see how he was the full embodiment of the Faith Message when others were doing the same as him and more LONG before. This is why I go back to Lester Sumrall - and of course, Fredrick Price in what his impact was in taking Hagin in his message and further developing it for Blacks in ways that Hagin did not seem to consider.
 
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Hagin himself had spoken of a Baptist Preacher of 37 years who moved to full Gospel.
Hagin qouted him as dad.. [the name slipped my mind] as the story goes the Baptist Preacher was healed by faith from the book of James.
This man as well received the gift of healing and continued in the ministry,after leaving the Baptist.

Dad Hagins service to the Lord spanned 69 years,his influence was undeniably great in the Faith movement.

When we look at the lives of great men of God Billy Graham for instance, their influences are immeasurable.

So many great ministries can be attributed to these faith giants.

Jessie Duplantis found the Lord from a Billy Graham broadcast,so you could say Billy Graham contributed to the Word of Faith movement.
 
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Gxg (G²);66841842 said:
I think a better description for others such as Wigglesworth (or John G. Lake) or Seymour (rather than founders) would be forefathers - or more specifically, the forefathers of the founding fathers ....if believing WOF began in the 60s/70s in its specific presentation. The forefathers had the architecture shaped in their time for the WOF movement to bloom in its time - and thus, indeed, they would part-founders.

Pentecostal healing evangelists who promoted faith as an active force bringing inevitable success/healing also served to set the stage for WOF - and thus, part of seeing the origins of the Faith movement would be to examine the extensive list of Pentecostal healing evangelists who spoke on faith.

I would say, of course, that the foundation of WOF was earlier than the 60s. It happened to bloom in the Post-Depression era and the economics of the day were a big factor in why certain thoughts came about. For the message was greatly attractive in post-Depression America - and Hagin himself was a product of the era. That opens the door for discussing the ways that others whom Hagin learned from and saw as inspirations (including those in the secular world) were also a factor in shaping things as they are. Brother dbkwarrior and I partially disucssed the matter as seen here:



That said, with Hagin, I don't see how he was the full embodiment of the Faith Message when others were doing the same as him and more LONG before. This is why I go back to Lester Sumrall - and of course, Fredrick Price in what his impact was in taking Hagin in his message and further developing it for Blacks in ways that Hagin did not seem to consider.

I do not see any color in teaching of God's Word.

I do see poverty as a curse,and the motive for teaching Bibical principles of prosperity.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I do not see any color in teaching of God's Word.

I do see poverty as a curse,and the motive for teaching Bibical principles of prosperity.
Saying one doesn't see "color" in teaching God's Word is true on some levels but not on others. For it's akin to saying "I'm color blind" when it comes to recognizing where others have differing experiences due to their backgrounds/ethnicities - it's like saying you don't see a tiger with its stripes. With God's Word, contexualization is what I am talking about and others such as Fredrick Price made the messages in the Faith Movement of relevance to Black communities and the issues they were dealing with - Hagin, however, did not introduce his message to Black communities.
 
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Hagin himself had spoken of a Baptist Preacher of 37 years who moved to full Gospel.
Hagin qouted him as dad.. [the name slipped my mind] as the story goes the Baptist Preacher was healed by faith from the book of James.
This man as well received the gift of healing and continued in the ministry,after leaving the Baptist.

Dad Hagins service to the Lord spanned 69 years,his influence was undeniably great in the Faith movement.

When we look at the lives of great men of God Billy Graham for instance, their influences are immeasurable.

So many great ministries can be attributed to these faith giants.

Jessie Duplantis found the Lord from a Billy Graham broadcast,so you could say Billy Graham contributed to the Word of Faith movement.
Interesting to learn :)
 
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When we look at the lives of great men of God Billy Graham for instance, their influences are immeasurable.

So many great ministries can be attributed to these faith giants.

Jessie Duplantis found the Lord from a Billy Graham broadcast,so you could say Billy Graham contributed to the Word of Faith movement.
The analogy that comes to mind is that we're not individual trees that all began on our own and have no connections - for our roots are interconnected with each other just as it is with other trees in their root systems. As one ecologist noted, "Tree roots can leak out sugars and other compounds into the soil. Those sugars are then sucked up by neighboring roots...." as it concerns the concept of tree neighborhoods since the underground root systems of plants and trees center on transferring carbon and nitrogen back and forth between each other

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRSPy3ZwpBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSGPNm3bFmQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLU9EPo1iwQ

In the same way that differing trees are networked together, it seems that many within the Faith Movement who were present in its development are like those being part of trees which were nurtured by other trees (spiritual giants or movements preceding them). And thus, when it comes to the Body of Christ, we have to give thanks for those coming before us :)
 
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