former Christians who became Muslim what made you turn away from Jesus ?

[smaneck]

I am still wondering which verses of Paul contradicts Christ. None can provide one.

That wasn't your original question. Originally you asked which of Paul's teachings *differed* from Christ. Now that I have pointed out which one you have raised the bar.

 

[smaneck]

It is my believe that God let us control the small things but if we ever divert from God's design too much, God will correct it, and there is nothing humans can do.

So wiping out most of the people on two continents didn't divert from God's plan "too much"?

And where is the love you keep talking about?

 

[dcalling]

That wasn't your original question. Originally you asked which of Paul's teachings *differed* from Christ. Now that I have pointed out which one you have raised the bar.

Ok show me the verses differed from Christ.

 

[dcalling]

So wiping out most of the people on two continents didn't divert from God's plan "too much"?

And where is the love you keep talking about?

That is for God to decide. I can't judge God. I only trust in God.

 

[WoodrowX2]

God told Peter "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
It is not just Paul.

Also by the same token, does Muhammad follow the 613 Mitzvah?


For Act 1, Paul is telling the same as what Jesus said:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

and Matt 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

And Jesus shows himself after resurrection in John/Mark/Luke, not just in Acts. You should know those appearances are not the same as the second coming.

According to what many perhaps most Christians believe is the appearances after the resurrection from the grave were before the ascension of Jesus(as) into heaven on the 40th day.

Paul on the road was long after the biblical ascension to heaven.


This contradicts
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

[smaneck]

Ok show me the verses differed from Christ.

As I have pointed out numerous times, Paul taught Justification by Faith in Jesus Christ alone. Here are all the verses where he refers to this.

Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."
Rom. 3:24, "being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;"
Rom. 3:26, "for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Rom. 4:5, "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,"
Rom. 4:11, "And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,"
Rom. 4:16, "Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all."
Rom. 5:1, "therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,"
Rom. 5:9, "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Rom. 9:30, "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith."
Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
Rom. 10:4, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."
Rom. 10:9-10, "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Gal. 2:16, "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified."
Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Gal.3:5-6, "Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations shall be blessed in you."
Gal. 3:14, "in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Gal. 3:22, "But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe."
Gal. 3:24, "Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith."

Thing is that Jesus never said anything about justification period.

 

[dcalling]

According to what many perhaps most Christians believe is the appearances after the resurrection from the grave were before the ascension of Jesus(as) into heaven on the 40th day.

Paul on the road was long after the biblical ascension to heaven.


This contradicts
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Well, Jesus did go away, what Paul saw is a vision, there is nothing preventing God send visions/holy spirit to any of us.

 

[LoAmmi]

Thing is that Jesus never said anything about justification period.

Also, what Paul claims is never in the Torah itself nor do any of the prophets speak of it. If this was HaShem's plan all along, it comes out of left field and there's no wonder so many Jews don't believe it. The Torah says to keep it forever and then Christianity comes along and makes it temporary.

 

[dcalling]

This is to smaneck, there is no difference or contridiction. Jesus says "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

And also if you read the verse carefully, you will see there is a difference between what you said and what Paul said.

Let me just pick a few verses (feel free to show other verses)
the first one you quoted:
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."

Paul is saying there is no distinction between those who have faith in Jesus Christ (where is the alone part?)

Or this:
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Paul says God is for both Jew and non Jews, and who ever have faith in God will be justified by God.

Read all the verses, it is clear that you added the "alone" part.

 

[WoodrowX2]

This is to smaneck, there is no difference or contridiction. Jesus says "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

And also if you read the verse carefully, you will see there is a difference between what you said and what Paul said.

Let me just pick a few verses (feel free to show other verses)
the first one you quoted:
Rom. 3:22, "even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction."

Paul is saying there is no distinction between those who have faith in Jesus Christ (where is the alone part?)

Or this:
Rom. 3:28-30, "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one."
Paul says God is for both Jew and non Jews, and who ever have faith in God will be justified by God.

Read all the verses, it is clear that you added the "alone" part.

Paul says God is for both Jew and non Jews, and who ever have faith in God will be justified by God.

Interesting. So Paul is essentially saying there is no need to believe Jesus(as) is the Messiah and saviour. That is reasonably close to the teachings of Jesus(as)

 

[dcalling]

Paul says God is for both Jew and non Jews, and who ever have faith in God will be justified by God.

Interesting. So Paul is essentially saying there is no need to believe Jesus(as) is the Messiah and saviour. That is reasonably close to the teachings of Jesus(as)

Jesus himself said he is the way truth life and no one goes to God except through him. Paul agrees with him.

 

[smaneck]

Jesus himself said he is the way truth life and no one goes to God except through him. Paul agrees with him.

So it doesn't matter whether you have the law of God written on your heart?

 

[smaneck]

Also, what Paul claims is never in the Torah itself nor do any of the prophets speak of it. If this was HaShem's plan all along, it comes out of left field and there's no wonder so many Jews don't believe it. The Torah says to keep it forever and then Christianity comes along and makes it temporary.

Habakkuk states that the righteous live by their faithfulness but Paul translated it as the righteous live by their faith. Not exactly the same thing.

 

[LoAmmi]

Habakkuk states that the righteous live by their faithfulness but Paul translated it as the righteous live by their faith. Not exactly the same thing.

Paul likes to play the switcharoo game. Let's look at four verses and I'm going to use Christian translations:

Isaiah 59:20-21
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and to them that turn from transgression in Jacob, said the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, said the LORD; My spirit that is on you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, nor out of the mouth of your seed, nor out of the mouth of your seed's seed, said the LORD, from now on and for ever.


Romans 11:26-27
and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Now, look at how Paul has modified the original to suit his purpose. The redeemer will come to Zion not to the people that have turned from transgressions but to turn the people from transgression. He also adds this "when I take away their sins" part for.. uh.. reasons?

Subtle, but it completely changes the words of Isaiah into something they are not.

 

[smaneck]

Now, look at how Paul has modified the original to suit his purpose. The redeemer will come to Zion not to the people that have turned from transgressions but to turn the people from transgression.

LOL. This reminds me of something in my own religion. There is a Tablet where Baha'u'llah writes: "Call out to Zion, O Carmel and announce the joyful tidings . . . " but in a song based on this Tablet we sing "Cry out O Zion" which turns the verse on its head. But I doubt if this was intentional.

 

[LoAmmi]

LOL. This reminds me of something in my own religion. There is a Tablet where Baha'u'llah writes: "Call out to Zion, O Carmel and announce the joyful tidings . . . " but in a song based on this Tablet we sing "Cry out O Zion" which turns the verse on its head. But I doubt if this was intentional.

I think Paul's was intentional and yours probably wasn't.

 

[dcalling]

So it doesn't matter whether you have the law of God written on your heart?

The law is always in our heart I think.

 

[dcalling]

LOL. This reminds me of something in my own religion. There is a Tablet where Baha'u'llah writes: "Call out to Zion, O Carmel and announce the joyful tidings . . . " but in a song based on this Tablet we sing "Cry out O Zion" which turns the verse on its head. But I doubt if this was intentional.

Call out to Zion? So you guys diverted from the Islam path. I believe Muhammad said that once Constantinoble fall, there will be 80k Jews storm out and the Muslims will kill them where they are.

 

[dcalling]

Paul likes to play the switcharoo game. Let's look at four verses and I'm going to use Christian translations:

Isaiah 59:20-21
And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and to them that turn from transgression in Jacob, said the LORD. As for me, this is my covenant with them, said the LORD; My spirit that is on you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, nor out of the mouth of your seed, nor out of the mouth of your seed's seed, said the LORD, from now on and for ever.


Romans 11:26-27
and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins."

Now, look at how Paul has modified the original to suit his purpose. The redeemer will come to Zion not to the people that have turned from transgressions but to turn the people from transgression. He also adds this "when I take away their sins" part for.. uh.. reasons?

Subtle, but it completely changes the words of Isaiah into something they are not.

Wow I checked, it is a misquote!!! Amazing!

I will definitely check on that. Kind of funny when all those others keep saying Paul is wrong but got no evidence, and the only one can truly spot something is our Jewish friend. Thanks again!

 

[smaneck]

Call out to Zion? So you guys diverted from the Islam path. I believe Muhammad said that once Constantinoble fall, there will be 80k Jews storm out and the Muslims will kill them where they are.

You believe Muhammad once said this?

I believe he said no such thing!

For your information it was Muslims who allowed Jews to return to Jerusalem whereas under the Byzantines they weren't allowed to live there. Indeed when Muslims first began moving against the Byzantine Empire, Jews arose to support them.

In any case, there were only about 2000 Jews living in Constantinople during the middle ages.