former Christians who became Muslim what made you turn away from Jesus ?

gord44

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I was a Calvinist for a while and while I enjoyed the theology I never really found much peace in the idea that 'God was in control'. I have an easier time believing that aliens keep us from nuclear war, and I dont even believe aliens have visited us. Or have they? Who knows.
 
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FredVB

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There is the possible mistrust that Paul was really truly Jewish from what was written in some of the epistles that are considered to be from Paul. But there might not be the same problem from what is said of Paul in Acts. Considering that, I might expect that some would conclude that the writer of epistles who is considered to be Paul is not the same person Paul shown in Acts.
 
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Well I am trying to study Mohammed and his revelations. He was scared of Gabriel and thought he was possessed at first.

I'd imagine many would be terrified if a loud, booming voice in an otherwise silent cave told them to "Read!" (even though they did not know how to read or write) and then felt something squeeze them.

Another thing God says we must pray 50 times a day then Mohamed says that's too much for humans, as if God does not know and lowers as if mohamed is in control.

1.) Allaah is the All-Knowing and He always intended for it to be 5 times a day of obligatory prayer for the Muslims. As with everything He does, there was hikmah (wisdom) behind the sequence of events. Him ordaining it to be 50 prayers a day at first shows us the extreme importance of prayers. Him lowering it to 5 prayers a day but keeping the reward as the reward of performing those 50 prayers shows us His Mercy for His believing slaves. If there was no other reward for prayer besides the spiritual benefits, that would've been a tremendous reward in itself....but there is even more benefit in prayer than 'just' the effect it has on our souls.

(We're told in a hadeeth that it was called out to the Prophet, "O Muhammad! Indeed My Word does not change; these five prayers will be recorded for you as fifty.")

2.) Consider the story of the creation of the heavens and the earth in Islaam. It took a period of time. Why did it take any time at all if God, the All-Powerful, can say "Be!" and it is? Like I said before, there is wisdom behind everything God does. Al-Qurtubi (d. 1273 CE) mentioned the following as some of the apparent wisdom behind taking time to make the Heavens and the Earth:

He wanted to:

- Teach His slaves kindness and deliberation in their affairs.
- Manifest His power to the angels step by step.
- And there is another reason: He wanted to create it in six days because Allaah has decreed a course for everything, for which reason He He delays the punishment for the sinners, because everything has an appointed time with Him.

Ibn al-Jawzi (d. 1200 CE) wrote this:

(i) He wanted to create something each day to show His power to the angels and those who witnessed it. This was suggested by Ibn al-Anbaari.

(ii) He was preparing things for Adam and his offspring before Adam existed, to emphasize Adam’s high standing before the angels.

(iii) Doing things in a short time is more indicative of power, and deliberation is more indicative of wisdom. Allaah wanted to manifest His wisdom in that, just as He manifested His power when He said, ‘ “Be!” And it is.’

(iv) He taught deliberation to His slaves, because if the One Who does not make mistakes created the universe in a deliberate manner, then it is more appropriate for those who are vulnerable to making mistakes to do things in a deliberate manner.

(v) Creation was accomplished step by step, lest anyone think that this happened as the result of an accident of nature.

Why did Allaah create the heavens and the earth in six days when He is able to have created it in less time? - islamqa.info

3.) If we pray for God to ease our affairs because they are becoming very trying for us and He does ease them, does that mean that He did not know before our prayer that our affairs were difficult? No.

Strange, plus when saying the shadada for a religion that emphasis n strict no association with God, mohameds name should not even be mentioned even as the messenger. Only God should when professing your new faith.

'Amo Woodrowx2 gave an excellent answer when he said that this part of the testimony of faith ensures that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) will not be worshipped by anyone who truly understands the shahadah. The longer version goes like this (in English): "I bear witness that there is no deity worthy of worship except for Allaah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger."

On the flip side, it also ensures that none of the Muslims can seriously claim that the Prophet is not that important in Islaam or that his sunnah is not important. You can't be a Muslim without acknowledging the Prophethood (and its finality) of the Prophet Muhammad.
 
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WoodrowX2

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There is the possible mistrust that Paul was really truly Jewish from what was written in some of the epistles that are considered to be from Paul. But there might not be the same problem from what is said of Paul in Acts. Considering that, I might expect that some would conclude that the writer of epistles who is considered to be Paul is not the same person Paul shown in Acts.

" Will the real Paul, please stand up"

A very good reason to doubt the Authenticity of any writings attributed to Paul.
 
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WoodrowX2

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Woodrow is married to a Native American and lives near the Pine Ridge Reservation, one of the most impoverished places in the country.

No longer live as close to Pine Ridge as we did. But still have family and friends there and visit often, weather permitting.

The Lakota, Oglala, and the entire Sioux Nation are very close to our hearts and a large part of our lives. They are my wife's family by birth and my family by marriage.
 
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ebia

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There is much truth in the statement "History is made by the historians of today"
To paraphrase George Orwell "He who controls the past, controls today"

If we are going to apply that hermeneutic of suspicion there is nowhere left to go; you've left no scope for rational discourse.
 
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dcalling

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Woodrow is married to a Native American and lives near the Pine Ridge Reservation, one of the most impoverished places in the country.

I am not talking about the poor, I am talking about God is in control. And since he is a Muslim I would think he agrees.
 
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dcalling

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So is God to blame for wiping about 90% of the Native Americans?

God is always in control. God has shown that God rarely intervens but from the Bible we see God in action.

It is my believe that God let us control the small things but if we ever divert from God's design too much, God will correct it, and there is nothing humans can do.
 
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ebia

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And you are assuming his audience did know. I see no such indication in the text.
The text would hardly say explicitly "you already know"

But if we unravel the arguments being made its clear that Paul is assuming this knowledge. As is common in his writings, the original audience is party to information we don't have or don't have in the same form they had.
 
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ebia

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" Will the real Paul, please stand up"

A very good reason to doubt the Authenticity of any writings attributed to Paul.

No there isn't. Reduced to spreading misleading half-truths.

There is significant argument about the authenticity of a few peripheral letters - the pastorals mostly, and some doubt Ephesians.

The core 7 or so are accepted as authentic by pretty much every expert.
Ephesians is mostly doubted on the basis of accepting romans and Galatians, reading them in a particular way, and struggling to fit Ephesians into that reading. If you don't tie yourself to that reading of romans there's no problem with Ephesians, which is why the consensus is moving from rejecting towards accepting its authenticity. Either way, the core questions here are covered in Corinitians, which nobody serious disputes
 
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gord44

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I am still wondering which verses of Paul contradicts Christ. None can provide one.

When you actually read the New Testament you will find out. It's his entire theology vs Jesus' theology. It can't be summed up by throwing a few verses at you. Do the work and discover it yourself.
 
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I remember sitting in a service a couple of years ago as a very new Christian and being told that the 12 apstles were prepared to die for their faith and never denied Jesus Christ. That was pretty strong for me as I did not see Mohammed or Joseph smith dying. What do you make of that? Are all the apostles liars?

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) engaged in battles, he and his people were persecuted so much in Makkah that they migrated to Madinah, and he was poisoned.

As for his companions, Yasir and Sumayyah (husband and wife) were tortured and killed for being Muslims and not renouncing their faith. They're the first martyrs in Islaam. Ammar, their son, was tortured along with them but he wasn't killed.

Bilaal ibn Rabaah, a slave, was also tortured by being forced to stay under the blazing sun during the hottest part of the day with a large stone sometimes placed on his chest to keep him there. He was told he'd be out there until he died or denied the Messenger Muhammad and worshipped other than Allaah. Bilaal's response to this was to loudly utter words that annoyed his owner the most: "Ahadun, Ahad!" ( One! One! - referring to Allaah's Oneness). He knew this annoyed his owner the most because the torture would increase after he said these words.

[Abu Bakr passed by him while he was being tortured and bought him. Abu Bakr was told by Bilaal's former owner that he would've sold Bilaal for just an ounce of gold (insinuating that Abu Bakr paid too much for Bilaal) to which Abu Bakr replied that even if he had asked for 100 oz. of gold, Abu Bakr would have paid it for Bilaal. Abu Bakr then freed Bilaal.]

Al-Khabbab ibn al-Arrat was also tortured in a similar manner for his belief in Islaam. He was tortured in various ways, one of which was to be forced to lie down on burning coals with a heavy stone placed on him.

This was early on in Islaamic history when Muslims were tortured the most (especially the weakest of society: the slaves). But even after the Prophet had died, there were cases of Muslims being tortured for their beliefs. An example of this is 'Abdullah ibn Hudhafah and his Muslim companions who were captured by the Romans. 'Abdullah was offered half the kingdom and the king's daughters in marriage if he abandoned Islaam. 'Abdullah refused and was then crucified. That did not make him give up Islaam, so then a pot with boiling liquid was brought and a Muslim was thrown in. That did not make him give up Islaam. Then the king threatened 'Abdullah with being thrown into the pot of boiling liquid which is when 'Abdullah started crying. The king, thinking he had broken 'Abdullah's resolve, was greatly pleased but then 'Abdullah told him that he was only crying because he had only one soul with which to die for Allaah and he wished that he could die many more times for the sake of God. The king eventually released 'Abdullah and the rest of the Muslims.



So....there you have it. Examples of just some of the companions of the Prophet tortured and/or killed for their beliefs. May Allaah be pleased with them all.
 
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WoodrowX2

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I am still wondering which verses of Paul contradicts Christ. None can provide one.

I see it as "What teachings of Paul support the teachings of Jesus(as).
Paul completely removed Judaism from the teachings of Jesus(as) it was Paul who removed:
Circumcission
The dietary laws
The 613 Mitzvah

It is quite difficult to find where Paul taught anything that Jesus(as) taught.

Just for starters:

read Acts 1

Jesus Taken Up Into Heaven

1 In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. 3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with[a] water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”

6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Now see if you can find anything Jesus(as) said that supports any of that

.Paul also presents another problem.

Paul did not appear on the scene until long after Jesus(as) had been lifted up to heaven. Not to return until the last days and to rule for 1000 years.

Yet, Paul claims Jesus(as) came to him on the road to Damascus. That does not correspond very well with what Jesus(as) taught about his return.
 
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LoAmmi

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The text would hardly say explicitly "you already know"

But if we unravel the arguments being made its clear that Paul is assuming this knowledge. As is common in his writings, the original audience is party to information we don't have or don't have in the same form they had.

It says he passed on the knowledge to them. It doesn't say anything about the people being there, able to be talked to, or anything else like that. Just the claim that 500 people saw it and many were still alive.

Again, 1000 people saw me fly.
 
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ebia

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It says he passed on the knowledge to them. It doesn't say anything about the people being there, able to be talked to, or anything else like that. Just the claim that 500 people saw it and many were still alive.

Again, 1000 people saw me fly.
Not too hot at understanding an argument and then working out what is being assumed in the argument?
 
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dcalling

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I see it as "What teachings of Paul support the teachings of Jesus(as).
Paul completely removed Judaism from the teachings of Jesus(as) it was Paul who removed:
Circumcission
The dietary laws
The 613 Mitzvah

God told Peter "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
It is not just Paul.

Also by the same token, does Muhammad follow the 613 Mitzvah?

It is quite difficult to find where Paul taught anything that Jesus(as) taught.

Just for starters:

read Acts 1


Now see if you can find anything Jesus(as) said that supports any of that

.Paul also presents another problem.

Paul did not appear on the scene until long after Jesus(as) had been lifted up to heaven. Not to return until the last days and to rule for 1000 years.

Yet, Paul claims Jesus(as) came to him on the road to Damascus. That does not correspond very well with what Jesus(as) taught about his return.
For Act 1, Paul is telling the same as what Jesus said:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

and Matt 24:36
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

And Jesus shows himself after resurrection in John/Mark/Luke, not just in Acts. You should know those appearances are not the same as the second coming.
 
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