former Christians who became Muslim what made you turn away from Jesus ?

[LoAmmi]

Torah is also God's word, and people are willing to give up their lives for the word of God.

People are willing to give up their lives for many things. Giving your life for something does not in any way make that thing true or correct.

 

[dcalling]

There is much truth in the statement "History is made by the historians of today"
To paraphrase George Orwell "He who controls the past, controls today"

Any human can learn the past, but only God controls today and tomorrow.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I don't even think God controls today or tomorrow.

 

[dcalling]

People are willing to give up their lives for many things. Giving your life for something does not in any way make that thing true or correct.

That is true, but think about it, for Paul, there is no other incentive to do so, there is no glories fighting, nor loots/booties, nor sex nor power. He willingly give up his status and let others slap/beat/exile him. He was with people of power, of prestige and he had a cause and was firmly believe in that cause. And all of a sudden he has a 180 degree change. He give up everything, he can't fight back when people beat him, almost to his death, yet there is no anger in him. Only God can do such things.

 

[dcalling]

I don't even think God controls today or tomorrow.

Why?

 

[AskTheFamily]

Why?

Well it depends what you mean by control. If you mean allow nature to do what's in it's laws and everyone to have their free-will, and the world run it's course with everyone deciding with their free-will...then yes God controls. But that's not really God controlling things. If it means God decides what today and tomorrow is going to be every day, like he sets it out...then that to be is absurd because it goes against our free-will or would say the natural order of things is not what is going to occur.

 

[LoAmmi]

That is true, but think about it, for Paul, there is no other incentive to do so, there is no glories fighting, nor loots/booties, nor sex nor power. He willingly give up his status and let others slap/beat/exile him. He was with people of power, of prestige and he had a cause and was firmly believe in that cause. And all of a sudden he has a 180 degree change. He give up everything, he can't fight back when people beat him, almost to his death, yet there is no anger in him. Only God can do such things.

I don't believe his claims about his status, to be honest. A Pharisee who joined with the Sadduces with the express purpose of killing people? No, that doesn't make any sense to me. He seems more like a person very dissatisfied with is faith and when he found a way to kind of keep his faith but get rid of the parts he hated, he jumped on it.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Any human can learn the past, but only God controls today and tomorrow.

Even today we are learning very much how the politicians have and continue to control the future of the masses by altering history.
Look at how the European invaders justifed the 'Manifest Destiny" by altering the history of the Native Americans to portray them as uneducated, uncivilized savages.

 

[WoodrowX2]

People are willing to give up their lives for many things. Giving your life for something does not in any way make that thing true or correct.

Good point.
Not very long ago 17 very misguided fanatics willingly gave up their lives to deliberately fly planes into the WTC.

Would any sane person believe that made their action right and their cause true?

 

[WoodrowX2]

I don't believe his claims about his status, to be honest. A Pharisee who joined with the Sadduces with the express purpose of killing people? No, that doesn't make any sense to me. He seems more like a person very dissatisfied with is faith and when he found a way to kind of keep his faith but get rid of the parts he hated, he jumped on it.

I am very far from being knowledgeable about Judaism. But in reading the writings of Paul, I find it very hard to believe he had any form of Judaic education. I even have doubts he was even Jewish.

Strikes me more like a Greek finding a reason to pass him self off as a Jew, and not doing a very good job at it.

I suspect he preached to the Gentiles because he would not have been able to keep the pretense among Jews.

 

[LoAmmi]

I am very far from being knowledgeable about Judaism. But in reading the writings of Paul, I find it very hard to believe he had any form of Judaic education. I even have doubts he was even Jewish.

Strikes me more like a Greek finding a reason to pass him self off as a Jew, and not doing a very good job at it.

I suspect he preached to the Gentiles because he would not have been able to keep the pretense among Jews.

I will say that there are instances in his writings where he blatantly misquotes scripture to make his point. Misquotes beyond the idea of it being the Greek translation he knows rather than the Hebrew original.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I will say that there are instances in his writings where he blatantly misquotes scripture to make his point. Misquotes beyond the idea of it being the Greek translation he knows rather than the Hebrew original.

I am vaguely familiar with that. During my Christian years I had Jewish friends try to show me that Paul was not Jewish never mind being a Scholar and a Rabbi.

 

[LoAmmi]

I don't really care if he was Jewish or not, but I really don't believe he was a rabbi or scholar.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I don't really care if he was Jewish or not, but I really don't believe he was a rabbi or scholar.

His writings do not show any indication he was an authority on Judaism

 

[smaneck]

His writings do not show any indication he was an authority on Judaism

Acts depicts Paul as a student of one of the Pharisaic scholars. But I'm not sure he ever finished his education. When Paul went to a city, he always preached at the synagogues first. However, the Jews appeared largely disinterested. Those who did express an interest were the gentiles who hung around the synagogues. They were called "god-fearers."

 

[harvester77]

Good point.
Not very long ago 17 very misguided fanatics willingly gave up their lives to deliberately fly planes into the WTC.

Would any sane person believe that made their action right and their cause true?[/QUOTE

To be honest that is a bad comparison. I think many people believe myself included that was not religion or Islam but something more sinister and quite frankly political and for power/ greed. You have to be a right sheeple to believe mainstream media.

 

[WoodrowX2]

Good point.
Not very long ago 17 very misguided fanatics willingly gave up their lives to deliberately fly planes into the WTC.

Would any sane person believe that made their action right and their cause true?[/QUOTE

To be honest that is a bad comparison. I think many people believe myself included that was not religion or Islam but something more sinister and quite frankly political and for power/ greed. You have to be a right sheeple to believe mainstream media.

The point is people die for a cause, religious or other.
Because one will find adherents dieing for a belief is not proof the belief is true.

 

[dcalling]

Even today we are learning very much how the politicians have and continue to control the future of the masses by altering history.
Look at how the European invaders justifed the 'Manifest Destiny" by altering the history of the Native Americans to portray them as uneducated, uncivilized savages.

I am a little bit surprised that you said this. This is more of a JaneTheBane style.

The politicians appears control the future, but we all know the future is in the hands of God.

 

[dcalling]

The point is people die for a cause, religious or other.
Because one will find adherents dieing for a belief is not proof the belief is true.

But it is relatively easy to see if the cause is good or bad.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I am a little bit surprised that you said this. This is more of a JaneTheBane style.

The politicians appears control the future, but we all know the future is in the hands of God.

While God(swt) knows the future and it is through his will it will happen. The choices are of our own doing.
Man is responsible for the future of mankind