Forcing your beliefs on others

[imind]

So would you say that the morality that allows a 60 year old Muslim man to marry a child of 10 wrong and why?

i think people should be allowed to marry who they wish. having said that, i don't think a 10 year old is capable of making that decision at such a young age.

i don't understand where this is going.

 

[JesusWalks78]

i think people should be allowed to marry who they wish. having said that, i don't think a 10 year old is capable of making that decision at such a young age.

i don't understand where this is going.

Not an answer is it...do you think it is morally acceptable?

 

[imind]

Not an answer is it...do you think it is morally acceptable?

intuition says no. simply because of what marriage entails.

 

[fillerbunny]

I still don't get where you're attempting to go with all of these questions.

Are you attempting to show that one's beliefs are being forced upon another through the prohibition of underage marriage?

 

[JesusWalks78]

intuition says no. simply because of what marriage entails.

So if it is immoral then why is it morally acceptable, surely as a race of humans we should be able to come to some conclusion about whether it should be legal to sleep with a ten year old when you are sixty.

 

[imind]

So if it is immoral then why is it morally acceptable, surely as a race of humans we should be able to come to some conclusion about whether it should be legal to sleep with a ten year old when you are sixty.

i don't understand your point.

 

[JesusWalks78]

i don't understand your point.

All morals are subjective, that there is no such thing as a moral.

 

[imind]

All morals are subjective, that there is no such thing as a moral.

define moral.

 

[JesusWalks78]

define moral.

Exactly...there is no such thing as a moral.....what is your definition?

 

[imind]

Exactly...there is no such thing as a moral.....what is your definition?

lol. all that for nothing. i agree with you that morality is subjective, and that as christians we simply abide by the morality 'given' to us by god.

this will not prevent me, though, from saying that some things are morally wrong, even if others disagree.

i stand by my earlier statement that we should not treat others as they would not want to be treated. though some may do it, i doubt very much they could justify it. i think the definition of a moral/immoral behavior would have to be justified.

________________________________________
re-reading that, i am saying two different things. maybe an absolute morality could exist, even if others want to disagree. it is not important that they disagree; can they justify their disagreement?

 

[JesusWalks78]

lol. all that for nothing. i agree with you that morality is subjective, and that as christians we simply abide by the morality 'given' to us by god.

this will not prevent me, though, from saying that some things are morally wrong, even if others disagree.

i stand by my earlier statement that we should not treat others as they would not want to be treated. though some may do it, i doubt very much they could justify it. i think the definition of a moral/immoral behavior would have to be justified.

________________________________________
re-reading that, i am saying two different things. maybe an absolute morality could exist, even if others want to disagree. it is not important that they disagree; can they justify their disagreement?

Exactly, thats why I said it had toi be looked at from a non religious perspective..with out God morals do not really exist as concrete....merely subjective thought.

 

[imind]

Exactly, thats why I said it had toi be looked at from a non religious perspective..with out God morals do not really exist as concrete....merely subjective thought.

isn't this simply a clever way around the question?

you had asked at one point about good and bad, and who defines it. i have a question for you that an environmental ethics professor presented to us one day. i'd like your perspective on it.

i do have to sleep now, but consider it this evening and we can pick it up tomorrow. by PM if a mod finds it necessary.

anyway the question is...

imagine a planet identical to our own in every aspect accept that there are no humans on it.

one day an environmental tragedy (meteor strike, volcano, earthquake, whatever, it doesn't matter). this tragedy kills 75% of all life on the planet (plants, animals, insects, etc).

is this good or bad?

i have to go to bed now, but consider it this evening and we can pick it up tomorrow. i'll be checking in to the board from time to time all day. take your time with this if you wish, as its kind of a tricky question.

good night.

 

[quatona]

I fully agree with JesusWalks in that morals are subjective.
Now I wonder how that invalidates statements like "you are forcing people to act upon your religious convictions".

 

[TricksterWolf]

A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

I don't think most Christians force their beliefs on others.

Some do. The ones who get on a pulpit in public and shout obscenities and accusations at passers-by lack my respect. I understand, however, that these are a tiny minority.

Trickster

 

[imind]

I don't think most Christians force their beliefs on others.

gay marriage.

 

[TricksterWolf]

gay marriage.

I think this is more of a social phenomenon than a religious one. Some people defend tradition even if they're not religious.

Trickster

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

A lot people complain that Christians "force their beliefs" on others. I think about what that means and I cannot come up with a clear definition. I do not see how you can force someone to believe what you believe outside of force of logic. If you show them something and they are forced to believe it then all you have done is highlighted reality for them. Maybe someone could clarify exactly what secret mind powers other Christians possess that they are using to force non-Christians to believe things?

As someone else said, "forcing your beliefs on others" does not mean "forcing others to believe what you do", it means "forcing others to live according to your beliefs when they do not share them".

This includes:

1. "family values" legislation

2. closing of topless bars and other adult establishments

3. crusades against porn and other parts of the adult industry

4. marriage amendments

5. assaults on science education, i.e. dumbing down the nation so that it is unable to compete in technology and is the laughingstock of the world

 

[JesusWalks78]

As someone else said, "forcing your beliefs on others" does not mean "forcing others to believe what you do", it means "forcing others to live according to your beliefs when they do not share them".

This includes:

1. "family values" legislation

2. closing of topless bars and other adult establishments

3. crusades against porn and other parts of the adult industry

4. marriage amendments

5. assaults on science education, i.e. dumbing down the nation so that it is unable to compete in technology and is the laughingstock of the world

So if we listen to your way of how these things are to be done...are you not forcing your beliefs on us?

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

So if we listen to your way of how these things are to be done...are you not forcing your beliefs on us?

I am not wanting you to do anything. I am not trying to get you to go to topless bars. I am not trying to get you to watch porn. I am not trying to tell you who you can marry and who you can't. I am not trying to restrict you from doing anything other than trying to restrict me.

In what way am I forcing beliefs on you, other than to ask you not to force beliefs on me?

 

[JesusWalks78]

I am not wanting you to do anything. I am not trying to get you to go to topless bars. I am not trying to get you to watch porn. I am not trying to tell you who you can marry and who you can't. I am not trying to restrict you from doing anything other than trying to restrict me.

In what way am I forcing beliefs on you, other than to ask you not to force beliefs on me?

You are trying to stop me from living in my ideal world that is free of sin and as much temptation to sin and enabling sin as possible...you are forcing that upon me.