Forcing your beliefs on others

[imind]

ok i answered it.

link to other thing (the trap)?

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Isnt Majority rule the way of democracy?

I've posted this a bunch of times, but here it is again.

James Madison, in Federalist paper #51:

It is of great importance in a republic not only to guard the society against the oppression of its rulers, but to guard one part of the society against the injustice of the other part. Different interests necessarily exist in different classes of citizens. If a majority be united by a common interest, the rights of the minority will be insecure.

 

[JesusWalks78]

because 'it hurts' people...why is hurting people wrong?...because you wouldn't want to be hurt, so then you shouldn't hurt others.

which boils down to 'treat others as you would want to be treated'. but is even more poignant when stated as, 'treat others as they would want to be treated'.

Why shouldnt I hurt others if I gain from it? If I can protect myself from being hurt but can exploit others for my benefit?

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

Parading around our religion, how is that different from a Gay Pride Parade?

Bogus.

If they could just be people like everyone else, without being dumped on, preached at, and called names at every turn, do you think there would even be such parades?

 

[imind]

Why shouldnt I hurt others if I gain from it? If I can protect myself from being hurt but can exploit others for my benefit?

again, because you wouldn't want it done to yourself. whether you could be hurt or not is irrelevant.

 

[JesusWalks78]

again, because you wouldn't want it done to yourself. whether you could be hurt or not is irrelevant.

And what if it didnt happen to myself, what if I was for eg a white cotton plantation owner and all the laws protected me..why is it wrong?

 

[JesusWalks78]

Bogus.

If they could just be people like everyone else, without being dumped on, preached at, and called names at every turn, do you think there would even be such parades?

When you stand before God on judgement be sure to ask him.

 

[quatona]

When you stand before God on judgement be sure to ask him.

I said that I was going to suspend my christianity for this conversation.

 

[imind]

And what if it didnt happen to myself, what if I was for eg a white cotton plantation owner and all the laws protected me..why is it wrong?

once again, you wouldn't want it done to yourself. so why would you do it to others?

 

[keltic63]

And what if it didnt happen to myself, what if I was for eg a white cotton plantation owner and all the laws protected me..why is it wrong?

are you now endorsing slavery?

 

[JesusWalks78]

once again, you wouldn't want it done to yourself. so why would you do it to others?

For our benefit.

Ok lets look at it another way.

Lets say that I am of race X, now race X is notthe native race...but there are more scholarships for race X, then Race Y and you are eligable simply for the colour of your skin.

Is it wrong that I use the scholarship to further myself...even if it means I am taking another more suitable canidates place from Race Y?

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

That I dont agree with either, If you say no thank you, then they should move along to the people that are interested in being saved.

They shouldn't even ask. It should be initiated by the target or not at all.

 

[JesusWalks78]

They shouldn't even ask. It should be initiated by the target or not at all.

i dont agree with that either...should someone ask every single persons permission before showing an advertisment on TV?

 

[imind]

For our benefit.

Ok lets look at it another way.

Lets say that I am of race X, now race X is notthe native race...but there are more scholarships for race X, then Race Y and you are eligable simply for the colour of your skin.

Is it wrong that I use the scholarship to further myself...even if it means I am taking another more suitable canidates place from Race Y?

i cannot see why it would be.

 

[JesusWalks78]

i cannot see why it would be.

So should I a member of Race X be able to take slaves from Race Y because I am allowed to (saying I was allowed to).

Both situations put one race in a superior position...why is one acceptable and one not?

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

i dont agree with that either...should someone ask every single persons permission before showing an advertisment on TV?

As a matter of fact, yes. If I need a product, I will seek the retailer out. I dislike advertising almost as much as I dislike evangelism. Both are harrassment.

Advertising is for the benefit of the seller, not the buyer. Evangelism is for the benefit of the evangelist wishing to up his soul count for a fast track to heaven.

 

[fillerbunny]

And what if it didnt happen to myself, what if I was for eg a white cotton plantation owner and all the laws protected me..why is it wrong?

Because you're infringing upon the rights and freedoms of those you make into your slaves. We have laws in place to protect minorities from being taken advantage of in tyranny of the majority situations.

I still don't get where you're attempting to go with this one.

 

[fillerbunny]

As a matter of fact, yes. If I need a product, I will seek the retailer out. I dislike advertising almost as much as I dislike evangelism. Both are harrassment.

Advertising is for the benefit of the seller, not the buyer. Evangelism is for the benefit of the evangelist wishing to up his soul count for a fast track to heaven.

I feel much the same.

Advertisements have convinced me not to purchase a given item far more often than they've persuaded me to go out and buy one.

However, at least I can change the channel when an obnoxious commercial comes on, chuck the flyers that wind up in my mailbox in the recycling bin, leave a store if the salesperson gets pushy, or refuse to answer when caller ID tells me there's a solicitor on the line. Getting those door-to-door religious types to vacate the premises on demand once you've made the mistake of answering the door is darn near impossible.

I've considered mentioning the whole 'lesbian atheist' thing, but I'm afraid it might just make them try harder.

 

[imind]

So should I a member of Race X be able to take slaves from Race Y because I am allowed to (saying I was allowed to).

absolutely not. we've already established that legality and morality do not always go hand in hand.

Both situations put one race in a superior position...why is one acceptable and one not?

the problem with slavery is not simply that one race is in a superior position. its that 'it hurts' (understand this to be a generic statement for a negative situation).

i assumed you were alluding to affirmative action, in which one race is given preference because the other already has a superior position, but i don't see how this situation is comparable to slavery. we've gone from speaking of an individuals pain versus a race's perceived advancement in society, and i'm failing to see a connection.

allowing someone of race 'y' to attend 'b' college, while someone of race 'x' has to attend 'c' college is not the same thing has declaring ownership of someone.

 

[JesusWalks78]

absolutely not. we've already established that legality and morality do not always go hand in hand.

the problem with slavery is not simply that one race is in a superior position. its that 'it hurts' (understand this to be a generic statement for a negative situation).

i assumed you were alluding to affirmative action, in which one race is given preference because the other already has a superior position, but i don't see how this situation is comparable to slavery. we've gone from speaking of an individuals pain versus a race's perceived advancement in society, and i'm failing to see a connection.

allowing someone of race 'y' to attend 'b' college, while someone of race 'x' has to attend 'c' college is not the same thing has declaring ownership of someone.

So would you say that the morality that allows a 60 year old Muslim man to marry a child of 10 wrong and why?