For those who argue for the omnibenevolence of God…

[Hammster]

You seem to be the one assuming the gods of other religions must be real, actual beings. Do you believe the Eastern Bunny or Tooth Fairy are also real?

The assumption that non-Christian gods are demons is a theological opinion by some church fathers, but I think it's an open question how Christianity relates to other religions, and we needn't assume every Hindu is a demonolater just because they have different ideas about a Supreme Being. That's not rational or charitable.

I can actually assume that. It’s Christ or chaos. There’s no neutral ground.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yeah. I suppose you can ignore all the verses that say otherwise.

It's all a question of hermeneutics and historical theology.

 

[FireDragon76]

I can actually assume that. It’s Christ or chaos. There’s no neutral ground.

I have lived long enough to realize not everything is so clear cut. God knows his own, and it is his place to judge.

I just noticed the Rushdoony quote. Are you aware of what kind of life the man lived? He was chased out of several Presbyterian bodies, even conservative ones, because he was quarrelsome, disagreeable, and refused to submit to sound discipline. He also treated his family terribly. I wouldn't use him as a role model of a Christian, and wouldn't give his ideas the time of day (a bad tree doesn't bear good fruit). Stick with somebody like Tim Keller, if you want a conservative Reformed voice, not Rushdoony.

 

[Divide]

But thou hast mercy upon all, because thou canst do all things, and overlookest the sins of men for the sake of repentance.

for the sake of repentance.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

You seem to be the one assuming the gods of other religions must be real, actual beings. Do you believe the Eastern Bunny or Tooth Fairy are also real?

Does the Eastern Bunny shows up a week after the Easter Bunny? (or in 2024 five weeks later!)

 

[FireDragon76]

.

Does the Eastern Bunny shows up a week after the Easter Bunny? (or in 2024 five weeks later!)

Do the Orthodox have an inside scoop on the Eastern Bunny? Is that where all those baskets really come from?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

for the sake of repentance.

Protestants miss out on so much by excluding 7 books from their bibles.

 

[Hammster]

It's all a question of hermeneutics and historical theology.

And some very clear statements about His substitutionary atonement.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So the Lord said to me, “Do not pray for the welfare of this people. When they fast, I am not going to listen to their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I am not going to accept them. Rather I am going to make an end of them by the sword, famine and pestilence.”
— Jeremiah 14:11-12

God commanded Jeremiah to not pray for the people. That violates what I’ve seen some argue as God being all-loving.

They were being punished because they refused to repent. Their refusal to repent was the cause, and the effect was God’s wrath upon them. Jeremiah was told not to go to them but he was allowed to accept those who came to him.

“I will winnow them with a winnowing fork At the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy My people; They did not repent of their ways.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭15‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, thus says the Lord, “If you return, then I will restore you— Before Me you will stand; And if you extract the precious from the worthless, You will become My spokesman. They for their part may turn to you, But as for you, you must not turn to them. Then I will make you to this people A fortified wall of bronze; And though they fight against you, They will not prevail over you; For I am with you to save you And deliver you,” declares the Lord. “So I will deliver you from the hand of the wicked, And I will redeem you from the grasp of the violent.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭15‬:‭19‬-‭21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The passage gives no indication that these people were incapable of repentance.

 

[Hammster]

I have lived long enough to realize not everything is so clear cut. God knows his own, and it is his place to judge.

Our inability to always make clear distinctions is not indicative of the fact that there are actually clear distinctions, and some of them are obvious, such as Christ is ruling and reigning.

I just noticed the Rushdoony quote. Are you aware of what kind of life the man lived?

He was chased out of several Presbyterian bodies, even conservative ones, because he was quarrelsome, disagreeable, and refused to submit to sound discipline.

What does that have to do with the quote?

He also treated his family terribly. I wouldn't use him as a role model of a Christian, and wouldn't give his ideas the time of day (a bad tree doesn't bear good fruit).

What does that have to do with the quote?

Stick with somebody like Tim Keller, if you want a conservative Reformed voice, not Rushdoony.

He was a false teacher, so that’s a hard pass.

 

[Hammster]

Protestants miss out on so much by excluding 7 books from their bibles.

Lol. No.

 

[Hammster]

They were being punished because they refused to repent. Their refusal to repent was the cause, and the effect was God’s wrath upon them. Jeremiah was told not to go to them but he was allowed to accept those who came to him.

“I will winnow them with a winnowing fork At the gates of the land; I will bereave them of children, I will destroy My people; They did not repent of their ways.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭15‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, thus says the Lord, “If you return, then I will restore you— Before Me you will stand; And if you extract the precious from the worthless, You will become My spokesman. They for their part may turn to you, But as for you, you must not turn to them. Then I will make you to this people A fortified wall of bronze; And though they fight against you, They will not prevail over you; For I am with you to save you And deliver you,” declares the Lord. “So I will deliver you from the hand of the wicked, And I will redeem you from the grasp of the violent.””
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭15‬:‭19‬-‭21‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The passage gives no indication that these people were incapable of repentance.

I never made an argument that said they couldn’t repent. The argument being made is a historical one that shows God to not be omnibenevolent, as some have claimed.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I never made an argument that said they couldn’t repent. The argument being made is a historical one that shows God to not be omnibenevolent, as some have claimed.

i have to disagree because His expectation of them to repent shows His benevolence towards them. If He had no benevolence towards them He wouldn’t care if they repented or not.

 

[Hammster]

i have to disagree because His expectation of them to repent shows His benevolence towards them. If He had no benevolence towards them He wouldn’t care if they repented or not.

He destroyed many of them. That’s not benevolent.

 

[bling]

He destroyed many of them. That’s not benevolent.

Allowing people to go on hurting themselves and other people is not benevolent to them, but is allowed to help others. When such people reach the point at which there is nothing more that can be done for them to change and their “witness” of being a bad person to be avoided and not someone a good person wants to be like, they are destroyed.

 

[Hammster]

Allowing people to go on hurting themselves and other people is not benevolent to them, but is allowed to help others. When such people reach the point at which there is nothing more that can be done for them to change and their “witness” of being a bad person to be avoided and not someone a good person wants to be like, they are destroyed.

You’re saying that some destruction is benevolent.

 

[bling]

You’re saying that some destruction is benevolent.

Death can be best for a truly demon possessed evil person.

 

[Hammster]

Death can be best for a truly demon possessed evil person.

I guess God’s omnibenevolent love doesn’t extend that far.

 

[bling]

I guess God’s omnibenevolent love doesn’t extend that far.

God Loves all free will persons, but those, who refuse His help to the point they would never, of their own free will, accept God's help, a person, who is never going to humbly accepting of God's help as pure charity, can't be helped. God is not going to go against their free will and force His help on them (it is not "Loving" to force Love on a person, nor would the love received be Godly type Love). What is God to do with such a person? God can use them, also against their will, as an example to help others to accept.
God can and will eventually take free will away from these truly evil people, but that is part of their destruction as a person.

 

[Hammster]

it is not "Loving" to force Love on a person,

It’s the most loving thing you can do, to love someone who rejects your love.