For the sake of argument, let's say God exists

[HosannaHM]

Fine, in the sense that you chose to be an aNessiest. which is next to no sense at all. Did you actively choose to be a non-fan of Burmese dance?
Or to ignore the Nessie "controversy"?

Dont you see the difference between an active choice and just not being interested?

To you, choosing god / non god is a vital and active choice. To me it just isnt. if it were, Id have to worry if i got it right between say, Xtian and Islam. See, I dont cover my hair, and Allah says he is gonna hang me by my hair in a fire for that. And i dont worry if a passing flying saucer will snag my hair, either. Call that choosing not to care, if you like.

its pretty meaningless tho.

There's no need to get hateful. I'm not trying to refute your opinions, I guess I just don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and mine lines up with one all powerful God, yours does not. I'm sorry if I don't make sense. I've listened and done my absolute best to discern what your trying to get through to me. If i don't agree, I don't agree and same for you. I think we both understand where we are though. Notice some of the other statements made by the Christians and Non Christians. It sounds condemning on both sides. I just wish we could all see the positives in our difference of opinions.

 

[HosannaHM]

What else kinds of questions are there?

I just meant sometimes its not always good to ask a question. But in this instance, of course it is.

 

[Hespera]

There's no need to get hateful. I'm not trying to refute your opinions, I guess I just don't understand.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and mine lines up with one all powerful God, yours does not. I'm sorry if I don't make sense. I've listened and done my absolute best to discern what your trying to get through to me. If i don't agree, I don't agree and same for you. I think we both understand where we are though. Notice some of the other statements made by the Christians and Non Christians. It sounds condemning on both sides. I just wish we could all see the positives in our difference of opinions.

I am a bit blunt but absolutely not hateful! I gotta go, but push the rest button, there is no hate or hostility!

I like you.

 

[sandwiches]

What's that story about the house that burned down, and the occupants were on the roof; and a man comes by in a boat, but they reject him; then another man in a boat; and they reject him; and finally a helicopter, which they also reject?

If I'm not mistaken, in that story the person ends up in Heaven, though. So, maybe I got a chance. ;P

The thing to ask yourself is this: Do you truly believe that I do not want to live forever in happiness and all that jazz? Heck... I was talking with Tinker Grey about this, just the other day. I would LOVE to live forever and see advances in science and technology, to see my future family becoming larger and larger, to see us meet the first extraterrestrial lifeforms, etc.

If there really was a helicopter that came by, it must have been invisible. Because trust me, I would've jumped on it at the first chance I got.

So, why would I NOT jump on the helicopter? What reason would I have? To be right? Heck, if there was evidence of this helicopter I'd be right AND I'd be going to Heaven!

 

[sandwiches]

Ya, you have --

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

In that case, I have to say that Jesus must certainly be in my house.

 

[Darkeonz]

I only have problems with some christians. The ones that deny evidence and theories simply because it goes against a literal interpretation of the Bible. I know lots of Christians with faith and all of that, who does not take it literal

 

[AV1611VET]

The thing to ask yourself is this: Do you truly believe that I do not want to live forever in happiness and all that jazz?

I pray to God you will -- and yes, I believe you do want to.

Heck... I was talking with Tinker Grey about this, just the other day. I would LOVE to live forever and see advances in science and technology, to see my future family becoming larger and larger, to see us meet the first extraterrestrial lifeforms, etc.

Well, you would find that disappointing -- as the laws of the universe will change dramatically.

Under the New Heaven and New Earth, we will not even have any need of the son, and lions will be herbivorous -- even extracting nutrients from straw!

It will be a very non-evolutionary universe.

 

[keith99]

No other writing is as detailed as the Bible; especially in the area of prophecies.

Take Jesus Christ -- in His first advent, He fulfilled 109 of 333 of them.

Even prophecies that He had no control over were fulfilled: such as His virgin birth, Herod killing the children, the visit of the Wise Men, the piercing of His side, being betrayed with a kiss, crucified on a cross (which wasn't invented until 200 years after the prophecy itself), and so on.

You won't find that in any other writing.

And I love this quote from Adam Clarke's Commentary, concerning King Josiah:

1 Kings 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the LORD, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the LORD; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

Please cite the OT Prophecies you refer to. The ones I am aware of regarding the virgin birth are ones that could just as well be translated maiden as virgin (though that would have a strong connotation of virginity). I am not aware of one regarding Crucifixion, though I do vaguely recall one that could relate to the crown of thorns.

 

[AV1611VET]

In that case, I have to say that Jesus must certainly be in my house.

He's definitely knocking!

Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I just meant sometimes its not always good to ask a question. But in this instance, of course it is.

As I said, it's only good to ask questions if you're are courageous to accept the most reasonable conclusion. As far as opinion goes, some are more informed than others, that's all. Generally speaking, opinions don't impress me, what does impress is a well reasoned, non dogmatic opinion.

All we're asking is if you can positively and reasonably demonstrate the existence of your god.

 

[AV1611VET]

I only have problems with some christians. The ones that deny evidence and theories simply because it goes against a literal interpretation of the Bible. I know lots of Christians with faith and all of that, who does not take it literal

What about the ones who deny evidence and theories based on a figurative interpretation?

 

[AV1611VET]

I am not aware of one regarding Crucifixion, though I do vaguely recall one that could relate to the crown of thorns.

Psalm 22 describes a crucifixion in detail.

 

[HosannaHM]

I am a bit blunt but absolutely not hateful! I gotta go, but push the rest button, there is no hate or hostility!

I like you.

Alrighty see ya later! Nice to talk to someone who has different opinions.

Feelings are mutual have a great day.

 

[sandwiches]

I pray to God you will -- and yes, I believe you do want to.

Well, you would find that disappointing -- as the laws of the universe will change dramatically.

Under the New Heaven and New Earth, we will not even have any need of the son, and lions will be herbivorous -- even extracting nutrients from straw!

It will be a very non-evolutionary universe.

I want to do more than believe, AV; I want it to be true.

 

[Darkeonz]

I want to do more than believe, AV; I want it to be true.

"edit"

my bad i misread what you wrote, and i can't figure out how to delete my msg

 

[contango]

I used to be a believer, and was for years, because I was scared I would lose my faith if I examined it objectively. When I eventually looked at the evidence, and the reasons for my faith, it became clear that I was just deluding myself, because I really, really wanted to believe.

Interesting you should say that... I used to be overtly hostile to anything that looked like a faith and desperately wanted it to be demonstrably false. I signed up to another Christian message board and posted in their "seekers" section truly expecting Christianity to crumble in the face of logic. That didn't turn out quite as I expected... I desperately didn't want to believe but what I experienced made it clear that if I didn't then I'd be deluding myself.

 

[contango]

Well, that's fine and dandy but unlike me, the Devil and demons have seen God, the Devil, and hell, at least. They have evidence. I have seen this earth, no God, no Devil, no demons, no angels, no hell, no Heaven.

I keep looking at theories of how everything came into being in the absence of god (small g to denote the term in the most generic sense, meaning one or more eternal beings of some nature).

The way I see it, in the beginning there was either something, or there wasn't. That something we can call god (again, small g), and so we have a simple choice - either god exists or god does not exist. One and only one of those statements can be true.

If god exists, it isn't unreasonable that god created what we see around us. Whether that was through a simple process as a literal Biblical creationist might believe taking precisely 144 hours as we currently understand them, or through a process of guided evolution, is open to discussion.

If god does not exist we need a succession of theories, each of which seems to merely kick the question back a little further. We have theories of evolution but they require something living as a starting point. So then we need to look at the question of abiogenesis, how something not living came to life. If we can explain that we need to figure how that "something not living" came to be around in the first place. Even when we go back to the theory of the Big Bang we still need to ask what caused it.

So on balance I find it easier to believe that god exists than that god does not exist. The next question, which is the point of the OP, is the nature of that god - whether we're talking about the God of the Bible, or Allah, or Vishnu, or Krishna, or any of the assorted other entities that people worship.

 

[Darkeonz]

Interesting you should say that... I used to be overtly hostile to anything that looked like a faith and desperately wanted it to be demonstrably false. I signed up to another Christian message board and posted in their "seekers" section truly expecting Christianity to crumble in the face of logic. That didn't turn out quite as I expected... I desperately didn't want to believe but what I experienced made it clear that if I didn't then I'd be deluding myself.

That just shows you that people are different. You said ealier that you felt like burning down every church there was, and that you fooled around with the ocult. I never felt this anger at all. I'm a very calm person by nature, I don't really have any "deamons" so to speak. I have an awesome life, making good money, having lots of friends. When I grew up, I wasn't raised as an atheist. I wasn't raised as a christian either.... in fact I didn't know if my parents believed in God or not. The first time we even talked about it in my family was like 4-5 months ago.

I remember back in school how important it was to evaluate the sources I used for my assignments. And I think that's a part of why and how I became so skeptical (+ I've met waaay too many people who will exaggerate or even make stuff up, just for attention).

 

[sandwiches]

I keep looking at theories of how everything came into being in the absence of god (small g to denote the term in the most generic sense, meaning one or more eternal beings of some nature).

The way I see it, in the beginning there was either something, or there wasn't. That something we can call god (again, small g), and so we have a simple choice - either god exists or god does not exist. One and only one of those statements can be true.

If god exists, it isn't unreasonable that god created what we see around us. Whether that was through a simple process as a literal Biblical creationist might believe taking precisely 144 hours as we currently understand them, or through a process of guided evolution, is open to discussion.

If god does not exist we need a succession of theories, each of which seems to merely kick the question back a little further. We have theories of evolution but they require something living as a starting point. So then we need to look at the question of abiogenesis, how something not living came to life. If we can explain that we need to figure how that "something not living" came to be around in the first place. Even when we go back to the theory of the Big Bang we still need to ask what caused it.

So on balance I find it easier to believe that god exists than that god does not exist. The next question, which is the point of the OP, is the nature of that god - whether we're talking about the God of the Bible, or Allah, or Vishnu, or Krishna, or any of the assorted other entities that people worship.

Here are the problems I see with this:

1) If there was something, it doesn't have been sentient.
2) If it was sentient, it doesn't have to have been a god.
3) If it was a god, it doesn't have to have been the Biblical God.

 

[AV1611VET]

I want to do more than believe, AV; I want it to be true.

I understand --