Florida boss killed for supporting Trump?

LostMarbels

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others act out, blame who they don't like?

And then you silence anyone that dares speak about it. Real life authoritarianism, in all of it's vile, overbearing, and forcible suppression of opposition.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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We have know each other on this forum, and responded to each other for years. We both know where each other stands, and you know full well what that snide remark was meant to imply. Quit the games. Stand for what you post.
I stand by what I post. Trump is clearly bad for politics. That was my point. Your response to me actually exemplifies it.

He is not bringing the country together, he is pushing us further apart. He is degrading social norms and expectations of basic decency. None of that means nor implies that anyone deserves to be killed for supporting him and I think it’s disgusting you would try to twist my words to mean such a thing though, I see that as further proof of my very point that this is what Trump has done.

Read back the words I wrote and explain how you got to your conclusion. I still don’t see where I have ever written that people deserve violence for their views. You won’t find that view expressed anywhere in my posts yet, you went ahead and assigned it to me. Why?
 
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GoldenBoy89

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others act out, blame who they don't like?
I don’t blame Trump for individual acts of violence. I blame him for the clear and obvious degradation of public discourse and politics over the short period he’s been in charge and his failure to address it. I don’t solely blame Trump for this either as I think Obama didn’t help address the division either.
 
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LostMarbels

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I stand by what I post. Trump is clearly bad for politics. That was my point. Your response to me actually exemplifies it.

He is bad for a lot of established norms. That's kinda the point.

He is not bringing the country together, he is pushing us further apart.

Not the ways you veiw it, but yes, I can agree with that. He is completely upending the establishment. And many people are furious over it.

He is degrading social norms and expectations of basic decency. None of that means nor implies that anyone deserves to be killed for supporting him and I think it’s disgusting you would try to twist my words to mean such a thing though, I see that as further proof of my very point that this is what Trump has done.

I am not attempting to twist anything. I get a lot of passive aggressive quips... it is hard to tell sometimes if someone just has a differnt veiw. To my clinical mind:

upload_2020-1-23_7-50-15.png


In this context sounds an awful lot like: "Of course she got raped... look at what she is wearing."

Or:

"Of course he got beat/killed... look who he is supporting."

For me to reiterate there are lots of people in Orlando that will do physical harm to you for supporting Trump, and you stating that Trump might not be a good leader because of that, leads me to believe you are stating that if Trump would just go away the attacks would stop. Again, as if those being attack are responsible because they hold to something someone else doesn't like.

It is an abusers mindset. Their actions are justified because......

Read back the words I wrote and explain how you got to your conclusion. I still don’t see where I have ever written that people deserve violence for their views. You won’t find that view expressed anywhere in my posts yet, you went ahead and assigned it to me. Why?

Because in all honesty I am very distrusting concerning certain aspects of politics. I have become so used to being looked into the eye and lied to. Lied about. That I have a hard time seeing myself not being attacked yet again... from yet another Democrat.

That may be my 'issue'. But it is the truth of how I feel. I do not exspect civility, kindness, or educated discourse. I exspect to be railed against. Mocked, ridiculed, even libeled. It is the common fair.
 
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LostMarbels

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I don’t blame Trump for individual acts of violence. I blame him for the clear and obvious degradation of public discourse and politics

I have to ask... how do you have civil public discourse with a group of individuals set on your destruction? How are the constant unabated attacks on a sitting president not a degradation to politics?
 
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durangodawood

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No all too surprised. As I have said before, Orlando is full of people that will assault Trump supporters. I myself have been assaulted. There are people absolutely losing their minds over trump. Going nuts.
Bernie said he'd pay their legal fees.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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He is bad for a lot of established norms. That's kinda the point.
And it doesn't appear to be having a good effect on the country. That's my point. You don't hire a demolitions expert when what you really need is a surgeon.

Not the ways you veiw it, but yes, I can agree with that. He is completely upending the establishment. And many people are furious over it.
And what do you think that is going to result in? Do you believe tearing down long established norms in politics is supposed to win people over? What is the endgame here? What happens after the establishment is completely upended? What is phase two of this plan?

I am not attempting to twist anything. I get a lot of passive aggressive quips... it is hard to tell sometimes if someone just has a differnt veiw. To my clinical mind:

View attachment 270739

In this context sounds an awful lot like: "Of course she got raped... look at what she is wearing."

Or:

"Of course he got beat/killed... look who he is supporting."
It sounds nothing like what you are twisting it into. Read it just as it is written. Trump is not a good choice for a leader if his intention is to tear things down, upend social norms of politics and incite anger in the populace towards his perceived foes. That's not going to have a positive effect. Indeed, it hasn't.

Can't you tell? Can you not see how quickly politics have degraded while he's been in office?

For me to reiterate there are lots of people in Orlando that will do physical harm to you for supporting Trump, and you stating that Trump might not be a good leader because of that, leads me to believe you are stating that if Trump would just go away the attacks would stop. Again, as if those being attack are responsible because they hold to something someone else doesn't like.
If he's not helping the situation and doing nothing to address the division in the country then I don't see how he can be totally removed from the problem. He tries his absolute best to keep his finger pushed firmly down on the pressure points in our society and the effect is turning violent. A good leader finds ways to bring people together, not push them further apart. That is not to say that anyone deserves what happens as a result of that but to point out that Trump not finding solutions and actually working against the society he was elected to lead is contributing to the problem of division. Not helping it, contributing to it. You might not like the sound of that but that is how about 2/3 of the country feels about this president.

It is an abusers mindset. Their actions are justified because......
No one has said this. Please stop attributing this mindset to me.

Because in all honesty I am very distrusting concerning certain aspects of politics. I have become so used to being looked into the eye and lied to. Lied about. That I have a hard time seeing myself not being attacked yet again... from yet another Democrat.
And so you go on the offensive and make up positions for others they've never expressed? How does that make any sense?!

"I don't like what you guys are doing to me so I'm going to do it to you in return!"

I think there's some old book that might have mentioned something about an eye for an eye.

That may be my 'issue'. But it is the truth of how I feel. I do not exspect civility, kindness, or educated discourse. I exspect to be railed against. Mocked, ridiculed, even libeled. It is the common fair.
I'm really sorry to hear that. Honestly. I try not to approach others with such a pessimistic view of their intentions unless they give me reason to do so. You apparently believe all democrats are violent sociopaths with no concern for the well-being of others they might disagree with politically. I hope someone might come along and change your mind of that someday.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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I have to ask... how do you have civil public discourse with a group of individuals set on your destruction?
Good question. You'd have to identify these individuals for me as I don't know who you are referring to. For example, I don't believe Trump is set on my destruction. I just think he's in way over his head and both he and his supporters are much too proud to admit it to themselves. I don't think he's actively working to destroy the country. I believe it is just an inevitable result of his actions if left unchecked.

How are the constant unabated attacks on a sitting president not a degradation to politics?
They are.

And Trump constantly fighting back instead of accepting it as a reality of his job seems to have an exacerbating effect on the problem. But only one person gets elected president and that person is supposed to have the better sense to not feed into the problem but try to address it. Trump does not have that better sense and these are the results.
 
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Larniavc

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FireDragon76

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Obviously, it's hard to say. Anti-government extremism is also possible (with or without a dose of clinical mental illness). Many anti-government types flocked to Trump as an outsider, but many others didn't. I wonder if that's what ruptured the two friends -- their different takes on Trump, both starting from similar positions before Trump. But this is just speculation at this point.

Could be.
 
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DaisyDay

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I have to ask... how do you have civil public discourse with a group of individuals set on your destruction? How are the constant unabated attacks on a sitting president not a degradation to politics?
Look to Obama - he handled it with good grace and humor.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I have to ask... how do you have civil public discourse with a group of individuals set on your destruction? How are the constant unabated attacks on a sitting president not a degradation to politics?

Look to Obama - he handled it with good grace and humor.

Seriously.
 
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LostMarbels

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I'm really sorry to hear that.

And I honestly believe you. I have no doubt you are sincere. Even a good person that doesn't want to hurt others. But in my veiw, that is not what your party represents.

Honestly. I try not to approach others with such a pessimistic view of their intentions unless they give me reason to do so. You apparently believe all democrats are violent sociopaths with no concern for the well-being of others they might disagree with politically. I hope someone might come along and change your mind of that someday.

I do not believe all democrats are violent sociopaths. I do however believe the democrat party as a whole has devolved into something else entirely. They surely are not libertarian anymore. Rights for all? Tolerance?

Regardless of how you wish to speak about what I say, I cannot exspect compassion, understanding or reason. The moment it is realised I support Trump all of that is out of the window. I'm not even human. At that very second of recognition, I am a bigoted racist that hates brown people, and wants to hurt children.

I have to defend from their pessimistic view of me. And they can determine my entire character and ethos from a hat. There is no civil discourse at that point. As Steve97 pointed out: "blind hatred, eliminates all sense of reason and morals."

Good question. You'd have to identify these individuals for me

Well, in continuity of the conversation I would ask how you feel about children beaten into a hospital on school busses for wearing a maga hat or a T shirt. Kids, again children, assaulted while eating in a restaurant.

This is the expected norm within the current political atmosphere. You need to be in fear, and act with caution before you put that hat on. Better censor your speech in public or you will be confronted. What kind of totalitarian crap is that? To have to fear for your own safety, because of your affiliation to the President of the United States.... in America???

This is the point where one justifies actions. I know it's wrong, but.....

They are.

And Trump constantly fighting back instead of accepting it as a reality of his job seems to have an exacerbating effect on the problem. But only one person gets elected president and that person is supposed to have the better sense to not feed into the problem but try to address it. Trump does not have that better sense and these are the results.

He isn't going to roll over. It's not going to happen. What I am hearing in this is: Compiulate or else. Stop fighting back. Just accept that we don't want you.

That above sentiment is part of the problem. We don't want puppets in the white house that will do as they are told anymore. These military experts, businessmen, and even congress are not in control of this nation. The president is. This oligarchy of individuals, and corporations who have been in power for decades, refuse to relent control. That is the fight.

They do not want a real president that actualy uses His own authority. They want a puppet they can control, that will sign off on what they have decided this nation will do.
 
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LostMarbels

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Look to Obama - he handled it with good grace and humor.

Of course he did. He was able to write into law indefinite detention without legal representation, and perform drone strikes on American citizens. His rule was uncontestable, because he was part of the swamp. He had nothing to worry about, HRC was getting into office next, and no one would even look into his presidency.
 
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DaisyDay

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Of course he did.
Well then...it can be done, even you agree.

He was able to write into law indefinite detention without legal representation, and perform drone strikes on American citizens. His rule was uncontestable, because he was part of the swamp. He had nothing to worry about, HRC was getting into office next, and no one would even look into his presidency.
Uncontestable? Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, Eric Cantor and the Tea Party members did their level best to ensure that he would be a one-term president even to the point of causing a government shutdown, causing the US Treasury Department to lose its triple-A rating on its bonds setting back recovery from the Great Recession and generally obstructing recovery acts. The Republican Senate flat out refused to even give Supreme Court Justice nominee Merrick Garland a hearing.

Obama was heavily contested. Donald himself accused him of being an illegal president because of the phony birth certificate scandal.
 
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LostMarbels

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Uncontestable?

Obama signed into law the ability to declare individuals under martial law, and arrested indefinitely without ever receiving representation or due process. ACLU sued him for the unconstitutionality and alarming violations to a person's rights concerning that. But they lost. This is still enacted btw.

Obama ordered drone strikes on American citizens without due process or the knowledge of congress.

Obama ordered thousands of strikes without congressional approval.

Obama used IRS and other federal organizations to target political rivals.

He came out unscathed.
 
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