Fleeing to Mars not of God

[truthpls]

I think it’s a waste of time anyway. Trying to survive on mars would take a vast amount of resources and we don’t even know how much ice is on mars. Man won’t be able to survive once the ice runs out.

Since God is coming back here and will change the heavens from what we know, being anywhere else would not appeal to me. (except heaven, but from there we return to earth anyhow when He returns)

 

[truthpls]

Was that a yes or no? Didn’t see an answer among the apologetics boilerplate.

Waiting for you to name that elf

 

[truthpls]

One million people? If by envision he meant imagine, then sure. I can imagine that too, but it's unlikely that even one person will be living on the red planet in a sustainable manner by the 2040s. Maybe we'll visit there by then, but it's nearly 2030 and humans have yet to set foot on Mars. Unfortunately, we haven't even revisited the Moon since the 1970s much less established a Moon colony.

You could be right. I think Bezos wants to get a moon colony going. Funny thing how some billionaires tend to not trust in God.

That said, i don't see why a colony on Mars would pose problems with Jesus returning.

Me either. Who said such a thing? How would some people having travelled in a rocket stop Him from returning?

If Jesus is the Word of God, the Logos, then his return would be more a matter of creator returning to creation (nature) than to a specific locale.

No. It is a specific locale and He rules from a specific HQ on earth. (Jerusalem, the city of the great King) Any space travellers will be returned to earth. So why waste the effort going in the first place, I figure?

A Mars colony, or a colony on a planet of a distant star for that matter, will become a part of our world. Much like how people live on different continents.

Not really. Any nest in the stars would be someplace folks would be brought down from. God has a different way of doing things.

Going to Mars isn't a waste, in my opinion. Rather, it might be a waste of our potential if we don't try.

OK, a clear opinion. So when untold billions are spent on that effort, as well as the loss of many lives (like astronauts that died in prototypes etc) and the ignoring of the needs of the poor on earth are no issue for you. Noted

 

[Desk trauma]

Waiting for you to name that elf

You’re not going to answer then, got it.

 

[truthpls]

You’re not going to answer then, got it.

You don't get to compare imaginary elves with reality

 

[Desk trauma]

You don't get to compare imaginary elves with reality

Sure do, get to compare them to your deity as well.

 

[Niels]

You could be right. I think Bezos wants to get a moon colony going. Funny thing how some billionaires tend to not trust in God.

They've made money their god.

Me either. Who said such a thing? How would some people having travelled in a rocket stop Him from returning?

I was referring to the logistics. It looked like you were suggesting that it would somehow be problematic for humans to be elsewhere in the universe.

No. It is a specific locale and He rules from a specific HQ on earth. (Jerusalem, the city of the great King) Any space travellers will be returned to earth. So why waste the effort going in the first place, I figure?

If there is a colony on Mars by the 2040s, the headquarters will be on Earth but Mars is just another location within nature, as is Jerusalem. The miracle of Christ's return is that the creator, the Word of God, is returning to creation (nature).

Not really. Any nest in the stars would be someplace folks would be brought down from. God has a different way of doing things.

Visiting other planets isn't hiding from God or somehow escaping his presence.

OK, a clear opinion. So when untold billions are spent on that effort, as well as the loss of many lives (like astronauts that died in prototypes etc) and the ignoring of the needs of the poor on earth are no issue for you. Noted

You're forgetting the many lives improved by the scientific and technological advancements achieved through these peaceful endeavors. Not to mention the many people employed by the space industry. Those "untold billions" of dollars are paid to individuals and wind up in the hands of construction workers who build the homes, the restaurants where people eat, the clothes they buy, the children who need teachers, etc. Because of the space industry, fewer people are sick and poor.

It's tragic that any test pilots and astronauts have lost their lives. There have been accidents, but engineers work hard to keep that to a minimum.

That said, I oppose billionaires being in bed with government, golden parachutes paid to failed CEOs who earn ridiculously more than their employees, and the like. Putting an end to those things will do more to improve the financial and physical health of the poor than putting the brakes on space programs.

Also, since we're on the topic of waste and destruction, look at the global military industrial complex and wars where people become fodder for the meat grinder. That's much more wasteful and destructive than people working together to go to space.

 

[Desk trauma]

It's tragic that any test pilots and astronauts have lost their lives. There have been accidents, but engineers work hard to keep that to a minimum.

More people die in a month from construction accidents in the US alone than have died in all space related endeavors.

 

[truthpls]

Sure do, get to compare them to your deity as well.

No, sorry. Not with me.

 

[truthpls]

They've made money their god.


I was referring to the logistics. It looked like you were suggesting that it would somehow be problematic for humans to be elsewhere in the universe.

No, must have been a misunderstanding. Whether man gets nowhere or to the moon or to Mars doesn't matter.

If there is a colony on Mars by the 2040s, the headquarters will be on Earth but Mars is just another location within nature, as is Jerusalem. The miracle of Christ's return is that the creator, the Word of God, is returning to creation (nature).

To earth and the mount of Olives specifically. We can't say that when He comes back to rule, that He also will rule some colony on Mars, as we do not even know that the planets will exist.

Visiting other planets isn't hiding from God or somehow escaping his presence.

It is not accepting that He is the only One that will fix it here on earth and will do so. Trying to flee to another world is a declaration of the opposite. Using trillions of dollars in the effort is declaring as I see it, basically 'to hell with the poor and people in the world'

You're forgetting the many lives improved by the scientific and technological advancements achieved through these peaceful endeavors.

Why would that matter to the issue of vast expenditures to flee earth from some doomsday?

Not to mention the many people employed by the space industry. Those "untold billions" of dollars are paid to individuals and wind up in the hands of construction workers who build the homes, the restaurants where people eat, the clothes they buy, the children who need teachers, etc. Because of the space industry, fewer people are sick and poor.

You could say that about nuclear weapons as well. Abortion industry etc. Just because something employs a lot of people does not mean it should be happening. People can otherwise be employed.

It's tragic that any test pilots and astronauts have lost their lives. There have been accidents, but engineers work hard to keep that to a minimum.

They wouldn't have to if they were not doing what they do in the first place.

That said, I oppose billionaires being in bed with government, golden parachutes paid to failed CEOs who earn ridiculously more than their employees, and the like. Putting an end to those things will do more to improve the financial and physical health of the poor than putting the brakes on space programs.

It is true that if men's hearts were right with God, that there are many other things besides trying to flee earth that they could be doing. The problem is sin. The solution is not shuffling corporations or trying to flee the planet like rats.

Also, since we're on the topic of waste and destruction, look at the global military industrial complex and wars where people become fodder for the meat grinder. That's much more wasteful and destructive than people working together to go to space.

They are kind of joined at the hip. Space is the primo military location. There are oodles of weapons there right now.

 

[Desk trauma]

No, sorry. Not with me.

Already have.

 

[truthpls]

Already have.

Good luck with your little elf.

 

[Hans Blaster]

OK that seems clear enough. I agree with the stop wasting money and help mankind bit.

He did pull a chicken little act though and clamoured for evacuation of the planet.

I frankly don't know or care what triggers Musk's panic about a doomsday scenario.

He should be. So should you.

I don't.

Wiki says this

"Musk was raised in the Anglican Church, in which he was baptized."

So he heard about God. He should be concerned about one of the most central themes of Scripture, that Jesus is comin back here.

No one said he hadn't heard of your god. I have too. Even went to a bad church for 25 years. I no longer care about the claims of Christianity, Christians, or their scripture.

Someone brought up in a Christian surrounding should know better. People in false religions that do not know any better are another matter. The idea of having the gospel preached in all the world is that such people also have an opportunity to choose.

I find *all* religions to be false religion. That's what it means to not believe in all gods.

That doesn't matter. Your being aware or not changes nothing.

Most actions. In the topic at hand, the actions of diverting vast fortunes away from people on earth, and ignoring God. Ignoring will change nothing. For example, if some do reach outposts in space, from there they will be taken down.

I spend 24 hours every day ignoring your god, especially when I am on this site.

Yet in a biblical sense I would think whatever the tree produces is called the fruit. If a tree has pretty flowers, I would consider that qualifies as fruits of a tree. The apples that come later or the cherries etc also qualify. If you see a little prickly bush with a label beside it that says 'apple tree' that does not make it one. If anyone doubts that, they simply need to wait and see how the plant turns out and what it produces.

Plants are classified according to the science of botany, not religion.

It gets the idea across. Prickle bush, thorn bush, etc etc. If you want to get technical we could use technical names for two trees that are different.

That is not the topic at all. The wasting of fortunes and opposition to god and fearmongering false prophesies etc. Those are the issues. Not the technical methods of how they try to vacate earth

It is far more relevant than all of your talk of your god to the question of if Mars colonization is a good use of resources. Ignorance of the topic does discussion no good.

People that prophesy things opposing Scripture should be taken with a large grain of salt I would say.

Prophets are useless people and should be ignored.

 

[truthpls]

I frankly don't know or care what triggers Musk's panic about a doomsday scenario.

Me either. The thing is that the program is in response to a doomsday scenario

I don't.

No one said he hadn't heard of your god. I have too. Even went to a bad church for 25 years. I no longer care about the claims of Christianity, Christians, or their scripture.

We all have a choice. To act on that choice, such as if we fled to Mars if we could has consequences. One consequence being that He hauls us right back down here again when the time comes. Dead or alive.

I find *all* religions to be false religion. That's what it means to not believe in all gods.

So you are qualified to tell us what is false or true. Thank you Obey Wan

I spend 24 hours every day ignoring your god, especially when I am on this site.

Say it like you mean it

Plants are classified according to the science of botany, not religion.

By some. By others they are classified any way we think God likes.

It is far more relevant than all of your talk of your god to the question of if Mars colonization is a good use of resources. Ignorance of the topic does discussion no good.

OK, so if that is the question, we can weigh in on the answer. I say hell no

Prophets are useless people and should be ignored.

Those who say prophets are useless people should be ignored. So there. People do not get to unilaterally declare people useless. Even if they think their rejection of the spiritual gives them some sort of elevated power or authority.

 

[Niels]

It is not accepting that He is the only One that will fix it here on earth and will do so. Trying to flee to another world is a declaration of the opposite. Using trillions of dollars in the effort is declaring as I see it, basically 'to hell with the poor and people in the world'

Musk has basically said he thinks conditions on Earth will become so bad that we'll have to leave. However, that is just one of many possible reasons for exploring space and colonizing other planets. Earth doesn't need to become decrepit. If we can build a sustainable Mars colony of over a million people, then we can probably also make life better on Earth. We are called to be good stewards of nature, and I'm not aware of any passages in the Bible that say we shouldn't solve problems that we are able to solve.

You could say that about nuclear weapons as well. Abortion industry etc. Just because something employs a lot of people does not mean it should be happening. People can otherwise be employed.

Those are very different things. You criticized the spending involved with space programs. I pointed out that the money isn't wasted.

They wouldn't have to if they were not doing what they do in the first place.

Accidents happen, unfortunately. People die while driving to work and for numerous other reasons. It doesn't mean they should have followed different career paths.

It is true that if men's hearts were right with God, that there are many other things besides trying to flee earth that they could be doing. The problem is sin. The solution is not shuffling corporations or trying to flee the planet like rats.

What we stand to learn and accomplish are arguably bigger motivators for people to become scientists, engineers, astronauts, or otherwise want to work in the space industry. Show me a kid who dreams of building rockets and flying to outerspace who thinks of it as "fleeing like rats".

They are kind of joined at the hip. Space is the primo military location. There are oodles of weapons there right now.

True. My point still stands, however, that we would be better off prioritizing space programs and cutting back a bit on military spending.

 

[truthpls]

Musk has basically said he thinks conditions on Earth will become so bad that we'll have to leave. However, that is just one of many possible reasons for exploring space and colonizing other planets.

It happens to be the one given in the OP

Earth doesn't need to become decrepit. If we can build a sustainable Mars colony of over a million people, then we can probably also make life better on Earth. We are called to be good stewards of nature, and I'm not aware of any passages in the Bible that say we shouldn't solve problems that we are able to solve.

The reason that is given for the main players who want to evacuate earth was doomsday. Now if you want to get into how it is better to spend hundreds of billions or trillions of dollars than to actually help mankind, maybe start a thread on that.

Those are very different things. You criticized the spending involved with space programs. I pointed out that the money isn't wasted.

I disagree. Perhaps you can explain how that trumps hundreds of millions of starving people? WE already know that countries with space programs have used them for womd. So why would I agree to spend trillions on killing us all and in the meanwhile, letting hundreds of millions of people starve?

Accidents happen, unfortunately. People die while driving to work and for numerous other reasons. It doesn't mean they should have followed different career paths.

Or not.

What we stand to learn and accomplish are arguably bigger motivators for people to become scientists, engineers, astronauts, or otherwise want to work in the space industry. Show me a kid who dreams of building rockets and flying to outerspace who thinks of it as "fleeing like rats".

Show me a teacher that promotes that who thinks womd are good? Space is filled with junk you know. I consider that an insult to God and man.

True. My point still stands, however, that we would be better off prioritizing space programs and cutting back a bit on military spending.

They do not tell us when they sneak weapons in those programs do they? If they had a base on the moon what do you think would be stationed there? How would a base on Mars help the poor, exactly?

 

[Hans Blaster]

Me either. The thing is that the program is in response to a doomsday scenario

We all have a choice. To act on that choice, such as if we fled to Mars if we could has consequences. One consequence being that He hauls us right back down here again when the time comes. Dead or alive.

So you are qualified to tell us what is false or true. Thank you Obey Wan

I told you what I thought, not what is "true". Neither my opinion or yours determines truth. You believe what you do, and I don't need or want your religions.

Say it like you mean it

I do mean it. I don't believe in your god, your religion, your theology, or your scriptures.

By some. By others they are classified any way we think God likes.

OK, so if that is the question, we can weigh in on the answer. I say hell no

Those who say prophets are useless people should be ignored. So there. People do not get to unilaterally declare people useless. Even if they think their rejection of the spiritual gives them some sort of elevated power or authority.

I reject the spiritual because I think it is not real and I have no evidence of it.

This is a rather useless discussion as was the thread from the beginning.

 

[truthpls]

I told you what I thought, not what is "true". Neither my opinion or yours determines truth. You believe what you do, and I don't need or want your religions.

I told you what was true. Not what I thought. Jesus is returning.

I do mean it. I don't believe in your god, your religion, your theology, or your scriptures.

That does not make them go away or be false. The ostrich theory has limited success

I reject the spiritual because I think it is not real and I have no evidence of it.

All history confirms the spiritual. Rejecting it for no particular reason has no value

This is a rather useless discussion as was the thread from the beginning.

Is it your habit of seeking out useless threads and making many posts in them?

 

[Hans Blaster]

I told you what was true. Not what I thought. Jesus is returning.

That is the opinion of your religion. A matter of faith. Maybe it is true, maybe it ain't, but I have zero reason to believe it.

That does not make them go away or be false. The ostrich theory has limited success

All history confirms the spiritual. Rejecting it for no particular reason has no value

It does not. There is no evidence of spirits.

Is it your habit of seeking out useless threads and making many posts in them?

Do you have a habit of making useless threads?

 

[truthpls]

That is the opinion of your religion. A matter of faith. Maybe it is true, maybe it ain't, but I have zero reason to believe it.

So you do not know if it is true or not. OK. Apparently you like to try to spice your sentences with a disdain of faith in God. I do not even go to church, so whatever those 'bad' churches were that you were part of for a quarter century I can't address. It sounds somewhat like there were abusers or something in your church, and this was blamed on God. I don't look at it that way. If some Pharisees got mad about some people being healed on the Sabbath day, I don't blame God for that. If some Pharisees cast people out of society for believing in Jesus, I don't blame God for that. I don't much care what churches do.

It does not. There is no evidence of spirits.

I disagree. My life is evidence. History is evidence. Fulfilled prophesies are evidence. The testimonies of millions of people is evidence. His spirit in our life is evidence. Miracles are evidence.

Do you have a habit of making useless threads?

Looking at the issue of neglecting the poor and needs of humanity, and diverting great resources to trying to flee the planet is useful. It is good to have a position on what is a common thread in modern society.