FLAT or ROUND Earth?

d taylor said:

Ok so by using only The Bible (as your reference for interpretation) interpret this account from The Bible.

Click to expand...

We use the science of archaeology and history to better understand the Old Testament. It is rather arbitrary for you to demand we use only the Bible to interpret.

prodromos said:

We use the science of archaeology and history to better understand the Old Testament. It is rather arbitrary for you to demand we use only the Bible to interpret.

Click to expand...

Archeological science is used to reinforce The Bible's statements about civilizations and rulers , etc.. That The Bible mentions in The Tanakh and New Testament. That is not interpreting The Biblical written text.

I personally do not need the science of archeology, to confirm accounts in The Bible are true. As i simply believe God at His written word.

d taylor said:

Ok so by using only The Bible (as your reference for interpretation) interpret this account from The Bible.
Then Joshua spoke to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon;
And Moon, in the Valley of Aijalon.”
So the sun stood still,
And the moon stopped,
Till the people had revenge
Upon their enemies.

Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day. And there has been no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord heeded the voice of a man; for the Lord fought for Israel.

Click to expand...

God can do anything. Doesnt mean the earth is flat.

You interpret God's word to make it out that the earth is flat.

We know that the earth is a sphere/round. The evidence is overwhelming.

Lost4words said:

God can do anything. Doesnt mean the earth is flat.

You interpret God's word to make it out that the earth is flat.

We know that the earth is a sphere/round. The evidence is overwhelming.

Click to expand...

Well it is easy, just show in The Bible where your beliefs are supported by scripture.

d taylor said:

-
​

Well it is easy, just show in The Bible where your beliefs are supported by scripture.

Click to expand...

All our beliefs do not need to be, nor can they be supported by scripture.
Why would you even begin to think that?

Akita Suggagaki said:

All our beliefs do not need to be, nor can they be supported by scripture.
Why would you even begin to think that?

Click to expand...

Pertaining to God, they should be. The Bible is the only truthful source of knowledge about God.

d taylor said:

Pertaining to God, they should be.

Click to expand...

But this thread pertain to earth.

Akita Suggagaki said:

But this thread pertain to earth.

Click to expand...

Which is God's creation. It is like, if Rembrandt was alive today, who are you going to consult about how he painted his paintings. Rembrandt or the university professor, i will consult Rembrandt.

d taylor said:

Which is God's creation. It is like, if Rembrandt was alive today, who are you going to consult about how he painted his paintings. Rembrandt or the university professor, i will consult Rembrandt.

Click to expand...

You are not doing that though. You are reading what someone wrote down on hearing it from Rembrandt about his painting, with all that person's cultural biases. You are not going direct to Rembrandt.

prodromos said:

You are not doing that though. You are reading what someone wrote down on hearing it from Rembrandt about his painting, with all that person's cultural biases. You are not going direct to Rembrandt.

Click to expand...

Not only that, but assuming a literal interpretation when metaphor, poetry, parable and allegory were widely used to make theological points.

prodromos said:

You are not doing that though. You are reading what someone wrote down on hearing it from Rembrandt about his painting, with all that person's cultural biases. You are not going direct to Rembrandt.

Click to expand...

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private (of its own) interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

d taylor said:

-​

The earth God created is not only flat but stationary.

Click to expand...

The Bible doesn't say so.

d taylor said:

Sciences creation version is simply a big ole lie.

Click to expand...

Nah, just based on observation.

d taylor said:

-​

Never said it did, but if it did people still would not believe it.

Click to expand...

Because it isn't. If the Bible said it, it would be wrong, which is why the Bible doesn't say it.

d taylor said:

I mean how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life can not get any plainer than John 6:47. But people do not believe that simple and to the point verse.

Click to expand...

What does that have to do with St. Augustine?

d taylor said:

​

Well it is easy, just show in The Bible where your beliefs are supported by scripture.

Click to expand...

First yuu have to show from the Bible why you think the world is flat.

Jipsah said:

The Bible doesn't say so.


Nah, just based on observation.

Click to expand...

flat
They came upon the breadth of the earth,
stationary
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Jipsah said:

Because it isn't. If the Bible said it, it would be wrong, which is why the Bible doesn't say it.

What does that have to do with St. Augustine?

Click to expand...

Nothing for me, but it was another poster who was using Augustine as a debate tool.

Jipsah said:

First yuu have to show from the Bible why you think the world is flat.

Click to expand...

Well i am not going to post verses. As creation is described in The Bible. The sun, moon and stars are all created lights that move over the earth. The sun is never called a star in The Bible and stars are never called suns. The Bible states several times the earth does not move. The earth is established on a foundation and does not move. That is enough as i have done this, enough times in the past.

d taylor said:

Nothing for me, but it was another poster who was using Augustine as a debate tool.

Click to expand...

And you tried to discredit Augustine as a witness, but only managed to demonstrate your own ignorance.

Halbhh said:

When Galileo was put on trial for pointing out that the Earth moved around the sun (instead of the Sun moving around the Earth), what he was encountering was how people invent cosmologies (in that case that Earth is immobile), and then having their pet theory, invest their egos into that theory...and then insist that their theory is what the Bible says.

And for them, it is in a way -- they often literally cannot see anything else I think.

Click to expand...

This may be a tangent, but I still wish to note it.

It is not really accurate to say Galileo "pointed out" that the Earth moved around the sun. That expression makes it sound as if this was obvious or at least provable and he was just demonstrating it. It wasn't. There was evidence for it, and there was evidence against it at the time. At most someone could say Galileo had done the best job arguing for it, but he hadn't proven it. It was only later on that more evidence was gathered which managed to more fully prove what Galileo was unable to. At the time, and with the evidence available, there were very valid reasons to be skeptical of Galileo's ideas... and other scientists were. Galileo was in the minority scientifically at the time, because the scientific information available at the time hadn't proven his claims yet. Indeed, it should be noted that modern scientific information still hasn't proven his claims, because Galileo claimed that the Sun did not move and everything went around it--which is rejected by modern scientists and heliocentrists. Galileo might have been right about the specific claim of Earth going around the Sun, but his larger claim of the Sun being immobile is not considered true even today.

As for the condemnation of Galileo itself, it should be noted that the claim that the Earth moves around the sun was not by itself what he was specifically condemned for. The 1633 decree against him condemns the claim that the Earth is mobile and that the Sun is immobile as one doctrine, as shown here:

While this page's argument is more strictly aimed at fringe Catholics who try to claim that the church infallibly declared heliocentrism to be a heresy, it nevertheless is of use to us here as it points out that what was condemned was the combined claim that the Sun was immobile and the Earth mobile:

To the extent that it specifically addresses a doctrinal point, the 1633 decree strictly addresses Copernicanism as a unity. Throughout, the decree addresses a singular doctrine/opinion which has two facets, an immobile sun at the center of the universe and a mobile earth:

“the false doctrine [NB: singular] taught by some that the Sun is the center of the world and immovable and that the Earth moves, and also with a diurnal motion”

“the false opinion [NB: singular] of the motion of the Earth and the stability of the Sun”

“the doctrine [NB: singular] of the motion of the Earth and the stability of the Sun is contrary to the Holy Scriptures and therefore cannot be defended or held.”

“the doctrine [NB: singular]—which is false and contrary to the sacred and divine Scriptures—that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from east to west and that the Earth moves and is not the center of the world”

Again, what the 1633 decree actually addresses is a singular doctrine/opinion which includes two points—notice that they are connected with the conjunction “and”, not “or” —viz., that that the sun is the immovable center of the universe and that the earth moves and is not the center of the universe.

Now, had the science proved that the Sun was in fact immobile and the Earth (and everything else) went around it, then the decree could be considered wrong. But the claim by modern science is instead that the Sun and Earth are both mobile. Therefore, what is regarded as the truth nowadays was not what was condemned against Galileo.

d taylor said:

-​

Well the good thing for most people who align with the beliefs (with some) of The Bible. Is that, if you have believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a born again child of God. You will avoid having to hear it from the small minority of born again flat earth creation believers in heaven or the new earth. How wrong your creation beliefs were, when you disbelieved God's creation description's given in The Bible. In favor of the lies of pagan, atheistic science. Because we will no longer have the sin nature and will no longer need to gloat over this creation debate.

Click to expand...

Nowhere does the Bible teach that the world is flat.

Genesis chapter 1 is a literal description step by step of God's creation week and even there it does not teach that the world is a flat disk. It teaches that God created over 6 days and that is all.

Arguing over the flatness or not of the creation gets nobody anywhere when what is really important is that God created over 6 days a few thousand years ago.

it does not matter if God was to plainly state He created a flat stationary earth in The Bible.

Click to expand...

Yes it would, very much. If the words "stationary flat earth' were in the Genesis text would be completely different.
Since he doesn't say that this is a

Titus 3:9​

But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. ​

​

​