Fiance masturbates and it causes insecurity for me

[MacNeil, D.]

...I am engaged (since over 1 month ago) to a wonderful man, heart for God and everything.....

Show him this thread, and your fiancé problem will be over.

 

[highlife]

The OP talked about how he was masturbating because they could not have sex (as per scripture) but over the years, in a marriage, there will be other times in which sex is not possible or probable, as in after the birth of a child, when the couple is separated by distance, illness, etc. During those times the issue will arise again and when it does the same old feelings will surface unless the issues surrounding it have indeed been dealt with and healed. IOW's when it comes up again, and it will sooner or later if the cause is not being able to have sex, then the same struggles in the OP will reappear and need dealt with again.

And for all those who want to attack rather than listen (not saying you) it is highly improbable that there will never be a time in marriage when sex cannot be, it is highly probable that children, and/or illness, and/or distance will rule the home at least for a season.

Children should never come before your spouse, that is a recipie for trouble, children dont need to be coddled 24/7 you can take an hour or 2 to take care of your spouse. Yes work stuff comes up but that should be minimized, I dont take jobs that take me away from my wife period. Alternate sex acts can be done if your wife has recently had a kid. Illness is the one sucky one but it has to be pretty serious ot preclude alternate sex acts.

The reason you get attacked is because your insinuating that someone who MB's is living in sin but you cant prove it and the burden of proof is on you and just throwing some scripture out there about love does not not even warrent a rebuttle, the only reason I reply is to protect thoes who might be nieve enough to believe you.

 

[Melethiel]

OK... But how is that different from fasting? You can fast to exercise self-control and increase self-esteem. However, that neither means that you must fast nor that you should never eat. As for your point about the spouse, as I said that depends on what the spouse thinks. Evidence:



---

So you can't find studies about masturbation and prostrate cancer? Those made the news a while back:
Masturbating may protect against prostate cancer. New Scientist 2003; 16 July
Frequent [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] may protect against cancer New Scientist 2004; 06 April

That's not a medical journal; that's a popular magazine that often mischaracterizes the evidence. Now show me the actual study.

 

[KinGjazzblue]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this or not but, we should all be able to agree that lust is a sin. Jesus said that even the mere imagining of someone else but your spouse is lust. So maybe masturbation is not specifically mentioned in the Bible but, lust is. Now what do you imagine when you touch. If it's only your spouse then maybe it's not a sin, but if a single thought of someone else pops in your head while masturbating then it is a sin. It's hard to keep your thoughts together when masturbating, so why take the chance of sining.

 

[highlife]

That's not a medical journal; that's a popular magazine that often mischaracterizes the evidence. Now show me the actual study.

I think we are getting off into the cabbage patch with medical studies, MB does not need to be defended with medical studies, its absense from scripture is all that is needed to defend it. I dont really care if there is a medical journal or not, if I were single I would MB and thats all there is to it, there is no specific prohibition and thats all I need, through Jesus we are free.

 

[highlife]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this or not but, we should all be able to agree that lust is a sin. Jesus said that even the mere imagining of someone else but your spouse is lust. So maybe masturbation is not specifically mentioned in the Bible but, lust is. Now what do you imagine when you touch. If it's only your spouse then maybe it's not a sin, but if a single thought of someone else pops in your head while masturbating then it is a sin. It's hard to keep your thoughts together when masturbating, so why take the chance of sining.

Simply being sexually attracted to a member of the opposite sex and MB is not enough to be considered lust, Jesus said if you lust after a woman that is not your wife, not if you are sexually attracted to her.

It is very important to distinguish between natural sexual attraction and what lust actually is. Lust is a destructive thought pattern and behavior and is WAY outside the scope of finding someone sexually attractive and MB. Now if you are HAPPILY married you should not have a reason to respond that way to other woman but if your single how do you think you find your wife.

 

[KinGjazzblue]

Simply being sexually attracted to a member of the opposite sex and MB is not enough to be considered lust, Jesus said if you lust after a woman that is not your wife, not if you are sexually attracted to her.

It is very important to distinguish between natural sexual attraction and what lust actually is. Lust is a destructive thought pattern and behavior and is WAY outside the scope of finding someone sexually attractive and MB. Now if you are HAPPILY married you should not have a reason to respond that way to other woman but if your single how do you think you find your wife.

Very interesting take Highlife. You are true for the most point, and to tell you the truth I am no expert in this subject. However I can share this. When I was single I felt more free (i was not a good Christian back then though) to lust over anyone, because of hormones and well, general Military behavior. I was in the Marines and knew many people including myself that would touch to to the image of a picture or memory from a movie. This was of course wrong because I didn't know if that person was married or taken. In some cases it would have been covering thy neighbors wife. Bad me!

Now I am happily married and have made the personal choice not to touch. Why? In my continual walk with Jesus I find that I am trying to be good and not sin whenever possible. I am afraid that if I do touch I would imagine my wife but some image from my past or a movie I have previously seen might make it's way into my head; and if that's the case (even for a split second) I have committed a sin in the form of adultery (as Jesus said) and let my down. Now my decision is mine in my marriage alone, but I feel it's better for me to not even come close to sinning whenever possible.

 

[KinGjazzblue]

Very interesting take Highlife. You are true for the most point, and to tell you the truth I am no expert in this subject. However I can share this. When I was single I felt more free (i was not a good Christian back then though) to lust over anyone, because of hormones and well, general Military behavior. I was in the Marines and knew many people including myself that would touch to to the image of a picture or memory from a movie. This was of course wrong because I didn't know if that person was married or taken. In some cases it would have been covering thy neighbors wife. Bad me!

Now I am happily married and have made the personal choice not to touch. Why? In my continual walk with Jesus I find that I am trying to be good and not sin whenever possible. I am afraid that if I do touch I would imagine my wife but some image from my past or a movie I have previously seen might make it's way into my head; and if that's the case (even for a split second) I have committed a sin in the form of adultery (as Jesus said) and let my down. Now my decision is mine in my marriage alone, but I feel it's better for me to not even come close to sinning whenever possible.

What I meant to say in paragraph 1 was "coveting thy neighbors wife" and in paragraph 2 " let my wife down". Sorry this iPad keeps changing my words around. Could be my eyes too.

Also I would like include that this subject is really a subject that is great to discuss with your spouse or fiancé. If you feel that your spouse is cheating on you by masturbating then he or she should make the sacrifice for you. It's really not that hard to not touch. Some people get almost addicted to it, but like any addiction; you can break it.

 

[highlife]

Very interesting take Highlife. You are true for the most point, and to tell you the truth I am no expert in this subject. However I can share this. When I was single I felt more free (i was not a good Christian back then though) to lust over anyone, because of hormones and well, general Military behavior. I was in the Marines and knew many people including myself that would touch to to the image of a picture or memory from a movie. This was of course wrong because I didn't know if that person was married or taken. In some cases it would have been covering thy neighbors wife. Bad me!

Now I am happily married and have made the personal choice not to touch. Why? In my continual walk with Jesus I find that I am trying to be good and not sin whenever possible. I am afraid that if I do touch I would imagine my wife but some image from my past or a movie I have previously seen might make it's way into my head; and if that's the case (even for a split second) I have committed a sin in the form of adultery (as Jesus said) and let my down. Now my decision is mine in my marriage alone, but I feel it's better for me to not even come close to sinning whenever possible.

I agree there is a world of difference between a single person MB and a happily married person (I consider a unhappily married person in the same catagory as a single person, they just have some paper work they need to sort out). In the 3 years i have been married I can count on 1 hand how many times I have MB.

However as a single person you dont have a wife to take care of that need for you so that leaves you with MB and possibly porn. Your right you dont know if that other person is married but just getting off to the thought of a sexual act with a member of the opposite sex is pretty far from lust in my mind and even the dictionary definition. Becaues thats really what most of us do when we MB to porn its just an image of some woman doing something hot, your not lusting after that particular porn star.

 

[razzelflabben]

OK... But how is that different from fasting? You can fast to exercise self-control and increase self-esteem. However, that neither means that you must fast nor that you should never eat. As for your point about the spouse, as I said that depends on what the spouse thinks. Evidence:

really, now your going with fasting and masturbation are equal in terms of self control...wow you seem desperate...let's start with the simple fact that fasting is specified in scripture and is never spoken of in such a way as to even question it as being sin...we can move on from there but that alone removes it from this comparison. As to the quote, that is one of the three benefits, abstaining would not cause harm no matter, and you still have two other benefits to deal with....

---

So you can't find studies about masturbation and prostrate cancer? Those made the news a while back:
Masturbating may protect against prostate cancer. New Scientist 2003; 16 July
Frequent [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] may protect against cancer New Scientist 2004; 06 April

please show that publication or some form of web review I'm not the only one who is missing it, see previous poster....

 

[razzelflabben]

I felt the need to defend myself because you come across in a hostile manner,

try again...you read into my post hostility that was not there, one of the problems with society, the church and this topic is that we have ceased to take personal responsibility....there was no hostility in my post, you may have very well read some into it, and I may or may not have been able to write it better to avoid that reading into of it, but, you read into it what was not there.

that your inturpretation of scripture is it and if I disagree with your inturpretations then im intellectually dishonest, thoes things could also be considered flamming.

except I didn't say those things nor did I suggest them, you read them into the post because you were reacting emotionally.

I do not know what HS is in regards to the only correct intrupretation, what ever it is I dont agree with others making inturpretations for me, as NT christians we are priests unto ourselves we dont need a priest dictating things down to us because we are illiterate peasants.

the early church believed that if there was One Spirit, there could be only ONE interpretation, therefore when there was a disagreement they would fast and pray until there was only one answer given by only one Spirit. This is what I am referring to when I say One interpretation. God, being One God cannot have multiple intended meanings to what HE says, One God means One intended meaning. Period...it goes back to the early church and what they understood and believed.

You come off as self righous and condeming so you should expect pointed stern replys because most intellegent people dont like being talked down to.

I was waiting for this response, especially since another poster who agrees with you, proclaimed loud and clear to be right and everyone else to be wrong and you had no problem with that, but when I speak with the authority of scripture, it is because I am self righteous and condemning....I don't even listen to this argument because it is nothing more than an emotional attack of character to try to make yourself feel better. Which I was under the impression was flaming, though I could be wrong.

If you dont like someones rebuttle then fine,

I can't like or dislike a rebuttal if there is not given. which is what I have a problem with.

you agree to disagree but you dont keep brow beating them that what they are doing is sin since it is not explicitly writen anywhere.

so now, asking for evidence to support your claim is brow beating...wow you really do need to get into a different forum, something without any real substance, something that is just feel good fluff.

Now as for your 1 cor 13 angle, I feel that MB is never nessicary in a happy marriage where a couple is able to come together (ie there is not some work travel issue or military deployment). My whole debate has been MB from a single persons stand point or an unhappy marriage (that is likely leading to divorce anyways). If you MB when you have a happy spouse who is willing to do what ever you need in bed then it is wrong, but only then.

which is your opinion and has nothing at all to do with the discussion of I Cor. 13 and what it says about masturbation.

Now you can say this is a non argument bunk rebuttle and im all wet and thats fine but dont keep insisting that single people that MB are living in sin because you cant really prove it, if there is even a .0001% chance that its not sin you should not be teaching it as sin. There are enough sins that are specificly called out, make sure to start with thoes when teaching new christians and dont drag them down into the minucha of MB and porn debates.

wow, not even a clue what your emotional response is trying to say...I would recommend you go back and reread the arguments and try to rebuttal them without all the emotional stuff, you would do much better.

I am not threatened by such debates but I fear for new christians who are nieve and are having the MB debate forced down their throats otherwise they are told they are living in sin.

If there are new christians here who feel like the MB debate is being forced down their throats, I would have to ask who is forcing them to stay....I mean come on, anyone is free to come and go as they like and if they feel forced, who is forcing them? I'm not, I don't have that kind of forum power

 

[razzelflabben]

Children should never come before your spouse, that is a recipie for trouble,

hummm....after our kids were born, we had to abstain till I was healed..this was true with every single one of the kids and all but two had different drs...has this somehow magically changed since our 11 yr old was born?

children dont need to be coddled 24/7 you can take an hour or 2 to take care of your spouse.

as I said, when our kids were born the Dr. ordered time to heal, I wasn't aware that had changed...can you point me to new research that shows this to be the case...thanks

Yes work stuff comes up but that should be minimized,

I didn't suggest any period of time, only that sooner or later it would be an issue...in fact, I didn't even mention jobs, I just mentioned distance, maybe in caring for a sick relative, traveling for a funeral, work, any of those things and others.

I dont take jobs that take me away from my wife period. Alternate sex acts can be done if your wife has recently had a kid.

oh, so now you agree with me, man I was worried, I thought the healing time was gone...man, I'm glad you clarified, but that means I don't have a clue what you are referring to above with kids.

Illness is the one sucky one but it has to be pretty serious ot preclude alternate sex acts.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that one can abstain, even scripture tells married couples that abstaining for a season when both parties agree is a good thing. But you don't accept that scriptural teaching either apparently...

The reason you get attacked is because your insinuating that someone who MB's is living in sin but you cant prove it and the burden of proof is on you and just throwing some scripture out there about love does not not even warrent a rebuttle, the only reason I reply is to protect thoes who might be nieve enough to believe you.

Actually, all I did was show scripture telling us it is sin, the rest of this is just emotional junk you made up about my posts and will be ignored from now on.

 

[razzelflabben]

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this or not but, we should all be able to agree that lust is a sin. Jesus said that even the mere imagining of someone else but your spouse is lust. So maybe masturbation is not specifically mentioned in the Bible but, lust is. Now what do you imagine when you touch. If it's only your spouse then maybe it's not a sin, but if a single thought of someone else pops in your head while masturbating then it is a sin. It's hard to keep your thoughts together when masturbating, so why take the chance of sining.

Actually lust was brought up but some here think it is something else...also, for a teen kid masturbating which is an argument that some here like to use, how can they be imagining their spouse when they aren't even ready to get married yet, or even narrow down the playing field....?

 

[razzelflabben]

I think we are getting off into the cabbage patch with medical studies, MB does not need to be defended with medical studies, its absense from scripture is all that is needed to defend it. I dont really care if there is a medical journal or not, if I were single I would MB and thats all there is to it, there is no specific prohibition and thats all I need, through Jesus we are free.

so it seems fair to say that your medical claims are false and your lack of scriptural evidence is also an overstatement and therefore your argument is "because I say so"...thanks but not thanks

 

[highlife]

You never pointed to a scripture where it explicitly states MB is sin, if it was such a sin you would think it would be listed in the 10 commandments and there would be no convoluded inturpretation nessicary, but its not. Until you can provide VALID scripture stating its a sin there is no need for the rebuttle you are seeking.

As far as having kids yes you may need to heal but that does not preclude alternate sexual activities like OS on your husband.

 

[razzelflabben]

You never pointed to a scripture where it explicitly states MB is sin, if it was such a sin you would think it would be listed in the 10 commandments and there would be no convoluded inturpretation nessicary, but its not. Until you can provide VALID scripture stating its a sin there is no need for the rebuttle you are seeking.

actually as my husband and I were just discussing it falls under sexual immorality (which covers a lot of things) and is further defined by I Cor. 13 which we have talked at length about and your only argument has been (no, cause I said so)

As far as having kids yes you may need to heal but that does not preclude alternate sexual activities like OS on your husband.

see the previous post dealing with this topic and scripture...

 

[chris4243]

That's not a medical journal; that's a popular magazine that often mischaracterizes the evidence. Now show me the actual study.

How about the study referenced in the article I gave you?
[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] Frequency and Subsequent Risk of Prostate Cancer
Journal of the American Medical Association (vol 291, p 1578)

 

[chris4243]

so it seems fair to say that your medical claims are false and your lack of scriptural evidence is also an overstatement and therefore your argument is "because I say so"...thanks but not thanks

Ha ha. You're funny.

 

[highlife]

actually as my husband and I were just discussing it falls under sexual immorality (which covers a lot of things) and is further defined by I Cor. 13 which we have talked at length about and your only argument has been (no, cause I said so) see the previous post dealing with this topic and scripture...

From what I have learned from my bible studies sexual immoratily is not what people think it is, from what I have read so far sexual immorality is always referenced with temple prostitution, or tied somehow to idol worship. Thats what my studies have shown, just throwing out the term "sexual immorality" is not a slam dunk, there is alot of context, cultural and time period issues there.

 

[chris4243]

really, now your going with fasting and masturbation are equal in terms of self control...wow you seem desperate...let's start with the simple fact that fasting is specified in scripture and is never spoken of in such a way as to even question it as being sin...we can move on from there but that alone removes it from this comparison. As to the quote, that is one of the three benefits, abstaining would not cause harm no matter, and you still have two other benefits to deal with....

You misunderstand me. Fasting is mentioned as a good thing, and is also a way to exercise self-control. Yet, not fasting is not a sin, nor is eating. And yet, gluttony is also a sin. The sin is not in the act, but in the context.

Now, two of your claimed benefits for not masturbating were that they would enhance self-control and self-esteem. But why by abstaining from masturbation rather than by fasting? Or, why would abstaining from masturbation be any different than abstaining from all sex, which would require even more self-control?

The only one you have left is the one I already had mentioned, that your spouse may not be OK with it. On this one part we agree, but most masturbation would presumably occur with someone who has no partner.

As for harm, is there not harm in people being frustrated and grumpy? Is this fair to the people around such a person? Remember, anger is also a sin and your recommendation would lead many to grumpiness.