FDA greenlights updated vaccines that better target currently circulating variants

[BPPLEE]

Being unvaccinated is more than twice as not-great.

Not if you have had COVID. The vaccine helps but it shouldn’t be forced on anyone

 

[Pommer]

Not if you have had COVID. The vaccine helps but it shouldn’t be forced on anyone

I agree.
People should be allowed to make their own “healthcare” choices.
(Unless that “healthcare” is abortion, obviously, because that’s different, somehow).

 

[BPPLEE]

I agree.
People should be allowed to make their own “healthcare” choices.
(Unless that “healthcare” is abortion, obviously, because that’s different, somehow).

My body my choice should apply to the vaccine

 

[Pommer]

My body my choice should apply to the vaccine

Yes, we agree again, well done!

 

[BPPLEE]

Yes, we agree again, well done!

There you go being reasonable again. Good job

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Deaths due to covid, not deaths of people who happened to be infected. It's still a serious disease -- more serious than the flu, which also kills tens of thousands of Americans per year.

Some viruses become less virulent with time. Some become more virulent. There is no overall pattern. (Studying natural selection in pathogens happens to be what I spend much of my time doing professionally.)
Will Covid-19 become less dangerous as it evolves?

Where is the breakdown of the "with Covid positive test" from "from Covid"? I don't see that anywhere, and conflation was a big problem the first time around.

2020 Final Death Statistics: COVID-19 as an Underlying Cause of Death vs. Contributing Cause

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It may have saved your life?

OR it may have had exactly ZERO effect. Poster would have had some level of symptoms, recovered, and gotten back to work, protected with natural immunity.

This is constantly stated, once the fiction of being protected from the virus was exposed, that oh well, you probably won't die. But 98% of people without co-morbidities and not over 70 - would have recovered well anyway. So its an entirely specious and unprovable argument to say "oh well, you probably won't die if you take 1,2, + of this new drug with no long term data". We need to be honest about this.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So its an entirely specious and unprovable argument to say

Apart from the data a few posts upthread showing that unvaccinated people had more than twice the death rate from COVID in the 2022 timeframe.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Apart from the data a few posts upthread showing that unvaccinated people had more than twice the death rate from COVID in the 2022 timeframe.

Quote someone's entire statement when context is required. "its" doesn't tell anyone what the actual point is.

And no, unvaccinated people did NOT have "twice the death rate". Early on, the vulnerable died - elderly with co-morbidities- , unvaccinated, mostly. Later on, the vaccinated were getting hard hit. The unvaccinated were just first, like the Amish.

 

[essentialsaltes]

And no, unvaccinated people did NOT have "twice the death rate".

Sure they did. In BPPLEE's link, it shows that 40% of people who died of COVID were unvaccinated (looking April to Aug 2022). But only 20% of people were unvaccinated. So unvaccinated people were dying at twice the rate you would suspect from their prevalence in the population. And vaccinated people were dying at a lower rate than their share of the population would suggest.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Sure they did. In BPPLEE's link, it shows that 40% of people who died of COVID were unvaccinated (looking April to Aug 2022). But only 20% of people were unvaccinated. So unvaccinated people were dying at twice the rate you would suspect from their prevalence in the population. And vaccinated people were dying at a lower rate than their share of the population would suggest.

Had to scroll back to find it. Quote it again if you are responding to it. Take a look at those stats instead of accept the spin.

They cherry-picked one 4 month period in the entire pandemic. And actually read what is said: "In order to be counted as vaccinated, a person must be at least two weeks out from completing their primary series before testing positive (for example, at least 14 days after completing two doses of the mRNA vaccine). Similarly, to be counted as having a booster, a person must be at least two weeks out from their booster or additional dose before testing positive. People who were partially vaccinated are not included in this data.

This permits them to exclude those who actually ARE vaccinated but fall within artificial time constraints and exclude all those who didn't have every available vaccine at the time.

Then there is an admission that well, these people MIGHT have actually have died from other conditions, but the data was INTENDED TO BE LIMITED to those who actually died of Covid. Not that it was limited: it was just an intention:

"Even with these reviews, it may sometimes be hard to determine the primary cause of death for someone with significant underlying health conditions, though these data are intended to be limited to cases where COVID-19 was a significant contributor to the death."

The excess deaths ARE high, but they are high among working age people 18-49: Hmmm. Those aren't the vulnerable though, which are primarily over 70 and with multiple co-morbidities. Something else was clearly at fault.

"Death certificate data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) show excess deaths increased by more than 40% among Americans 18 to 49 years old during a 12-month period ending in October of 2021, and that COVID caused only about 42% of those deaths."

"The insurance executive rated the extraordinarily high death rate as “the highest … we have seen in the history of this business,” adding the trend is “consistent across every player in that business.”


To further underscore the import of his statements, Davison said, “Just to give you an idea of how bad [40%] is, a … one-in-200 catastrophe would be a 10% increase over pre-pandemic. So 40% is just unheard of.”

Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64

(The Center Square) – The head of Indianapolis-based insurance company OneAmerica said the death rate is up a stunning 40% from pre-pandemic levels among working-age people.

www.thecentersquare.com

The following is a deceptively worded admission that the unvaccinated are not dying at greater numbers from the KFF article:

"The fall in the share of deaths that are among unvaccinated people could also be explained by changes in the unvaccinated population. By this far into the pandemic, it is estimated that many unvaccinated people have had COVID-19 at least once and while hundreds of thousands of unvaccinated people have needlessly died from COVID, those who survived may have gained some immune protection against the virus that can help protect them against severe outcomes when they have subsequent infections. However, this protection from a past infection can also diminish over time, which is why it is still recommended that unvaccinated people with prior COVID-19 infections get vaccinated and stay up-to-date on boosters."

The more honest outlets just EVENTUALLY admitted the widely suspected truth up front:
"Feb. 17, 2023 -- The natural immunity provided by a COVID infection protects a person against severe illness on a par with two doses of mRNA vaccine, a new study says.

People who've been infected with COVID reduced their chances of hospitalization and death by 88% over 10 months compared to somebody who hasn't been infected, says the study, published in The Lancet. (And of course, it hadn't been studied longer than 10 months at the time, but note that the unvaccinated are not getting repeat infections in mass numbers. Nature Journal also established that natural immunity was durable and long lasting - EVERYONE has been exposed by now).

COVID Infection Provides Immunity Equal to Vaccination: Study

The natural immunity provided by COVID-19 infection protects a person against severe illness on a par with two doses of mRNA vaccine, a study published in The Lancet says.

www.webmd.com

 

[NxNW]

And no, unvaccinated people did NOT have "twice the death rate".

You're right; it was much higher.

 

[essentialsaltes]

This is very interesting:

"Feb. 17, 2023 -- The natural immunity provided by a COVID infection protects a person against severe illness on a par with two doses of mRNA vaccine, a new study says."

Even if this were true in general, to get that 'natural' immunity, you have to survive a first encounter with COVID.
From the link:

The findings don't mean people should skip the vaccines and get COVID on purpose, one of the researchers told NBC News.

“The problem of saying 'I'm gonna get infected to get immunity' is you might be one of those people that end up in the hospital or die,” said Christopher Murray, MD, DPhil, director of the IHME. “Why would you take the risk when you can get immunity through vaccination quite safely?”

 

[Pommer]

That's easy, everyone that did not get vaccinated and are still alive made it through their first encounter.

Not everyone has had COVID.

 

[Pommer]

How many have not?

Natural immunity two times more effective than the jab. Wow!

About 42% never have had it.
I art one.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

You're right; it was much higher.

No, it was not.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Even if this were true in general, to get that 'natural' immunity, you have to survive a first encounter with COVID.
From the link:

The findings don't mean people should skip the vaccines and get COVID on purpose, one of the researchers told NBC News.

“The problem of saying 'I'm gonna get infected to get immunity' is you might be one of those people that end up in the hospital or die,” said Christopher Murray, MD, DPhil, director of the IHME. “Why would you take the risk when you can get immunity through vaccination quite safely?”

Virtually EVERYONE did have an encounter with Covid, whether they knew it or not, per the CDC over a year ago. Some never knew. Some got ill. The elderly and those with multiple co-morbidities hid out as they were more vulnerable, which was the way it should have been handled by all.

 

[BPPLEE]

Not everyone has had COVID.

It’s difficult to know how many because some people just thought they had a cold. You only know about confirmed cases.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

About 42% never have had it.
I art one.

Everyone has been exposed. Not everyone gets sick. Unless you haven't left your house and live alone, you were exposed.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

It’s difficult to know how many because some people just thought they had a cold. You only know about confirmed cases.

This is correct; most never tested at all who had mild cold symptoms. Why should they? They thought they had a cold.