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Evolution or the Bible?

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The translators made no mistake. Special Creation of man out of nothing is just ignoring what is written.

I never claimed man was created out of nothing, God created man out of dirt, and He created woman from man. And it is "Special" because God spoke, God created, His personal involvement in Creation makes it special or supernatural.

At some point, God did create out of nothing, the heavens and earth. He brought into existence (caused) that which did not exist previously.
 
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I think some of evolution is true. I believe that some of the Bible is figurative.

There are many instance of figurative language used in Scripture, however I suppose part of the debate, in modern times is over whether or not the Creation account is historical narrative or poetry. One of the issues involved is the importance of whether or not Adam was a historical figure. There are a number of problems involved with reducing the historical Adam to a symbol for mankind, and they extend into the New Testament.
 
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Vicomte13

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I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess

Drew
God created the sky, the land, and everything in them. Evolution is probably how He did it.
 
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mindlight

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I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess.

No poll attached to this as this forum is primarily Christian, so it would not be fair.

And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

Drew

Small scale microevolutionary changes are a fact but are really about Gods flexible design adapting to different circumstances over time. The problem is that evolutionists then generalise from what is observable to posit macroevolutionary theory. However this is inferred rather than empirically verifiable. Things like the lack of fossil precursors to the Cambrian explosion or no direct evidence of chemical evolution mean that the idea of abiogenetic /macroevolutionary origins is an unfounded theory.

The bible, as it was originally given, is inerrant and like direct empirical evidence it is a primary source of information. It is absolutely clear from the genealogies that the first man and woman date from a special creation event about 6000 years ago. Evolution however requires millions of years and has no direct empirical evidence to support it.

In short the bible wins!
 
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Zoii

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The wind blows for a combination of reasons. Firstly the rotation of the earth and secondly the barometric pressure differences that rise between two different points because of parameters such as temperature differences.

The bible is meant as a spiritual guide. Its not a science textbook and was never intended to be one.
 
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NobleMouse

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I might as well ask you "why does the wind blow". Because you do not know.

But give me your best guess.

No poll attached to this as this forum is primarily Christian, so it would not be fair.

And, yes, I do know the answer to this question. But, I will not tell.

Drew
Answer: The Bible. God was actually there (not man) and told us what He did and when, and what He told us does not line up with (macro)evolution. There are many here that will disagree with this, and that is fine. I believe creation was a miraculous event and I believe an all-powerful, omnipotent God can create everything in 6 days.

To expound a little, variation within a 'kind' (Google Baraminology to see how creationist scientists today are identifying and classifying different kinds) is observable in the present and seems to line up with ideas similar to what is called microevolution (small changes over a short period of time). Depending on the intent of the OP question, microevolution seems to not contradict the Bible in that Noah only had to hold 2 of each kind on the Ark and within a few thousand years we can still have the variety of life we see today. In terms of macroevolution (major change to entire taxonomic groups over a long period of time), I don't believe the Bible supports this.
 
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KWCrazy

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The translators made no mistake. Special Creation of man out of nothing is just ignoring what is written.
Quote mine much?
And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Pretending that the Bible can be justified with evolution by conveniently leaving out that everything came into existence in a single day is simply dishonest. I could as easily quote you as saying, "Special Creation of man out of nothing is what is written."
 
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KWCrazy

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In terms of macroevolution (major change to entire taxonomic groups over a long period of time), I don't believe the Bible supports this.
Actually, neither does biology.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Quote mine much?
And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Pretending that the Bible can be justified with evolution by conveniently leaving out that everything came into existence in a single day is simply dishonest. I could as easily quote you as saying, "Special Creation of man out of nothing is what is written."
But time as man knows it did not come until the 4th day...The LORD's Day goes from darkness/Night to light/Day...not 24 hours to a day...nor months and years or seasons...

Not saying I embrace the theory of evolution, but I do refuse to put God in a box. With God all things are possible and what science has uncovered about the precision of the building blocks of life are amazing and testify to miraculous, infinite God who made all things.
 
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GirdYourLoins

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I personally believe that God created in the way ot is depicted in the bible, but an all powerful god could have done it any way He wanted. If God chose to create the universe and everything in it in a few days He is more than capable. If he chose to do it over billiions of year's he is more than capable of doing that as well. Three is no reason that it has to be a one or the other question.

There are everal thories how God could have created an ld earth and it be written as it is in the Bible.
 
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rjs330

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The translators made no mistake. Special Creation of man out of nothing is just ignoring what is written.

New International Version
And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so.

New Living Translation
Then God said, "Let the earth produce every sort of animal, each producing offspring of the same kind--livestock, small animals that scurry along the ground, and wild animals." And that is what happened.

English Standard Version
And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so.

New American Standard Bible
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so.

King James Bible
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Then God said, "Let the earth produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that crawl, and the wildlife of the earth according to their kinds." And it was so.

International Standard Version
Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth each kind of living creature, each kind of livestock and crawling thing, and each kind of earth's animals!" And that is what happened:

NET Bible
God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals, each according to its kind." It was so.

New Heart English Bible
And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, livestock, creeping things, and animals of the earth after their kind." And it was so.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Then God said, "Let the earth produce every type of living creature: every type of domestic animal, crawling animal, and wild animal." And so it was.

JPS Tanakh 1917
And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so.

New American Standard 1977
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living soul after its nature, beasts and serpents and animals of the earth after its nature; and it was so.

King James 2000 Bible
And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kinds, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kinds: and it was so

American King James Version
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

I'm not sure what you mean. Special creation out of nothing is how the heavens and the earth were created. Special creation of man means we we're specially created differently than the rest of creation. The Bible says evolution didn't happen. God created the creatures in the sea first then the birds. This directly contradicts the evolutionary theory. The ground in one day produced or brought forth ground creatures of all kinds. Gid even gave a short list if the creatures created. This contradicts evolution.

I trust what the Bible says happened.
 
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Halbhh

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The Bible says evolution didn't happen. God created the creatures in the sea first then the birds. This directly contradicts the evolutionary theory.

While everyone has a viewpoint, if we know God created this Universe (all that is), then I think we should not get too contentious about various Christian believer views about things not clearly specified in the text. I expect you already agree, but I'm going somewhere with this. We know God could do creation details in any manner He wants, and when God narrates (to Moses who is recieving this vision) "let the Earth bring forth" we can very reasonably take this to mean what it sounds like or some other way, either, so long as we believe in God (because we are not omniscient and don't know all things anyway). To me, I think it means what it sounds like there, that He has made the Earth (and physics and chemistry -- nature) in such a way that His design does support life, and so I also think (my viewpoint) this means the Earth naturally brings forth life, by His design.

But Moses, seeing this vision, wouldn't already know all about what he was seeing. He'd know nothing before the vision. So, God said these very short bits of narration to go with the vision(s).

Notice that verse 11 is the first verse that mentions what we call a living thing, plants.

We know that plants have roots in the soil, and bacteria are down there on the roots, etc., helping the plants.

So, when the text does not say 'let the Earth bring forth bacteria' I think none of us would conclude there were no bacteria at that moment. Right?

So, my guess is He has the bacteria in place with the plants. But, this is trivial really. Right? I think no verse in the chapter discusses the bacteria that go with plants because it is trivial. Do you agree?

We must be cautious not to assign great importance to any viewpoint about details not in the text, because they are not in the text because they are comparitively less important. Well, even trivial in comparison.

So if someone thinks for instance that little or no time passed during verse 1, they should not demand others agree with them. They are free to imagine that. It's not in the text. If I think it was 9 or 10 billion years, that's not in the text. Both could be (either would fit). Neither is crucial for personal faith that saves, not at all. Faith that can save is based on Christ and His words to us (many places, like Acts 4:12, John 3:16). I know you, perhaps every person in the thread too, very likely agree with all of this, but I mention it anyway because in these discussions people sometimes will guess at what others believe. I want to be sure you know what I believe if I also tell you just some mere additional ideas.

In the mainstream evolution theory roughly bacteria happen first, then plant like life (example: Phytoplankton which live on sunlight), likely moss like stuff on the shores, then land plants, etc., then various more significant sea creatures (invertebrates, etc.) and in time fish like creatures, etc., and then more significant land creatures after those, so it happens that mainstream evolution theory broadly (generally) lines up with the Genesis chapter 1 sequence (so long as one understands that plants can grow on a cloudy day when the sun, moon, and stars cannot yet be seen due to overcast skies, as still happens on Earth even today -- with plants growing under always-cloudy or overcast skies in some places).

But....this kind of mere science detail is....sorta beside the ultimate point and purpose of the scripture here..... Because really we should at least sometimes just read without any such theories in mind as we read (any ideas we are bringing, on any side of any debate, any version of creationism or whatever else, including mine and yours and Stanley's, etc) , but instead with a pure reading, with faith, not arguments, and truly listen, and be awed or altered by this amazing and wonderful chapter.

If we do that and thus get the real thing, then later we can casually discuss mere ideas about other details not in the text without tension or anything at stake. Christians need to realize we don't know all things about how God did all things, but only the some of the most amazing and crucial things. That Genesis chapter 1 appears in every detail as I can see it reading it very carefully to also fit mainstream science as I've extensively read through mainstream science from just curiosity, and for some people that don't already know the gospel (not yet) this compatibility is helpful to deciding whether or not to try to read more in the Bible, even while not that important to others, but no believer should worry so long as they are doing Matthew 7:21-27.
 
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KWCrazy

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But time as man knows it did not come until the 4th day...The LORD's Day goes from darkness/Night to light/Day...not 24 hours to a day...nor months and years or seasons...
Wrong. Light was created day one. The sun, moon and stars came from the light source, which is why it is no longer dominating our planet. Evening and morning were the first day. Regardless of where the light source is, a single revolution of the earth still creates an evening and morning.
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm not sure what you mean. Special creation out of nothing is how the heavens and the earth were created. Special creation of man means we we're specially created differently than the rest of creation. The Bible says evolution didn't happen. God created the creatures in the sea first then the birds. This directly contradicts the evolutionary theory. The ground in one day produced or brought forth ground creatures of all kinds. Gid even gave a short list if the creatures created. This contradicts evolution.

You have given a synopsis of what you have been told about special creation.
What you have not been told, is that it's not from scripture.

There is no "Special Creation" of any living things in scripture out of nothing.
All of scripture says that all living things come from the earth or from red dust.
And the words for "Create" or "made" are not "Special Creation" even hinting at that.
You can check for yourself. Click on the words in question, in blue, on the right.

21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the watersswarmed

25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything

Then click on the appropriate phrase.
created
-to shape, create-
brings about (1), clear (2), create (6), created (32), creates (1), creating (3), Creator (4), cut them down (1), make (2), produced (1).

"made"
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6213a.htm
 
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SkyWriting

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21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

I read "God created", "God made", to attribute those acts to evolutionary processes would be the equivalent of saying evolution is God, which would not only diminish the glory of God in creation, but His personal care and touch in the creation of everything. However, I do realize no TE would be so careless as to substitute God for evolution, but the words "God created" and "God made" are glossed over in a real sense for interpretive purposes of bringing modern Science into the ancient text.

We can look into that as well. The ancient text does not even hint at special creation rather it shows changes to what already exists.

21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed

25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything

Then click on the appropriate phrase.
created
-to shape, create-
brings about (1), clear (2), create (6), created (32), creates (1), creating (3), Creator (4), cut them down (1), make (2), produced (1).

"made"
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6213a.htm
 
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SkyWriting

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I'm not sure what you mean. Special creation out of nothing is how the heavens and the earth were created. Special creation of man means we we're specially created differently than the rest of creation. The Bible says evolution didn't happen.

And yet it does just that.

King James Bible
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,


You don't believe the text, just as it reads?

Genesis 2:19
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them:

Scripture says that God used the land to create all living things.
 
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dreadnought

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There are many instance of figurative language used in Scripture, however I suppose part of the debate, in modern times is over whether or not the Creation account is historical narrative or poetry. One of the issues involved is the importance of whether or not Adam was a historical figure. There are a number of problems involved with reducing the historical Adam to a symbol for mankind, and they extend into the New Testament.
It seems to me to be a difficult issue to fathom, though not an important one. The Lord leads me through my life, solving all my problems for me. My faith is secure - I'm not going
There are many instance of figurative language used in Scripture, however I suppose part of the debate, in modern times is over whether or not the Creation account is historical narrative or poetry. One of the issues involved is the importance of whether or not Adam was a historical figure. There are a number of problems involved with reducing the historical Adam to a symbol for mankind, and they extend into the New Testament.
It is an interesting issue. You don't want to demonize science, because science does a lot of good things for us. On the other hand, the Lord is the life-giver, and I don't think science teaches that.
 
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NobleMouse

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Wrong. Light was created day one. The sun, moon and stars came from the light source, which is why it is no longer dominating our planet. Evening and morning were the first day. Regardless of where the light source is, a single revolution of the earth still creates an evening and morning.
I agree! I would add too that another difficulty for ToE in light of the Bible is that evolution (macro) occurs primarily as the result of random mutation and natural selection (there may be some other factors as well, but it is may lay understanding that these are the primary driving forces). When we read God's word we see the following in Genesis 1:24:

"And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so."

At first blush it would seem that this could (maybe), in effect, be hinting at evolution; however, if we read on to the next verse (25):

"And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds and the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that creeps on the ground according to its kind."

Here it is clear that God made life. We are not left to guess... God spoke (v 24) and God made (v 25). This is evidence that this was a miraculous event (God speaking) and that it was God-directed (not random). Of the elements naturally occurring on Earth, about a dozen are what primarily makes up life. This later fact lines up with v 24 that God used elements found in the earth to 'bring forth living creatures according to their kinds'.

As others have stated here, science is great for many discoveries and technological advancements, but it cannot explain miraculous events (ex. Jesus being born of a virgin, Jesus calming the storm and the waves, Jesus raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, healing the sick, Jesus raising from the dead himself, etc...). These are all real events that happened and affected reality, had power over matter, power over life (and power over death) - all without scientific explanation and transcends to a deeper truth that all of creation is supported upon.
 
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rjs330

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You have given a synopsis of what you have been told about special creation.
What you have not been told, is that it's not from scripture.

There is no "Special Creation" of any living things in scripture out of nothing.
All of scripture says that all living things come from the earth or from red dust.
And the words for "Create" or "made" are not "Special Creation" even hinting at that.
You can check for yourself. Click on the words in question, in blue, on the right.

21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the watersswarmed

25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything

Then click on the appropriate phrase.
created
-to shape, create-
brings about (1), clear (2), create (6), created (32), creates (1), creating (3), Creator (4), cut them down (1), make (2), produced (1).

"made"
http://biblehub.com/hebrew/6213a.htm
Sorry I don't get your point. The term special creation isn't in the Bible. We just made it up to describe the uniqueness of the creation of man. That's all it means. Just like we use the word Trinity which isn't in the Bible either. It's just a word that we use to describe what the Bible teaches.

It's not a big deal, unless you are trying to say man was not created unique from the animals.
 
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