Evolution or the Bible?

[JoeP222w]

"Evolution or the Bible?"

The question is way too opened ended and based in a category error.

The Bible is the word of God. Evolution is not. They are incomparable.

 

[redleghunter]

Is it really? Even scientists wonder what was before that.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

 

[Halbhh]

sorry just trying to figure out inserting quotes . My belief is

We know that creation was started by God and men know that the big bang occured because the universe is expanding . Both are right . Science supports creationism on this one point

Mainstream science is in broad accord with the reality that God created. Normal, mainstream science, not fringe or 'alternative', or 'creationist' 'science' but just the mainstream consensus or leading theories that the majorities of scientists think are likely correct. There aren't even any notable disagreements, but many imagine there are, not knowing one or the other well enough (which admitedly takes a lot of time and faith).

 

[KWCrazy]

Time did not really start until after the fall.
Before that Adam, was immortal.

So why were the six days of creation specifically identified?

 

[Andy centek]

SKYWRITING:
Yes, that is very true, Adam was created in the image of THEM, hence spiritual. As the apostle Paul said: First was spiritual, then the natural. Now, when each ones time is set, and they are walking in Christ Jesus, they will also return to the spiritual realm.
Who will return? The Elect of God; not the ones who say I am saved.

Andy Centek

 

[Andy centek]

So why were the six days of creation specifically identified?

Greetings:

Each day of the creation is given in Genesis 1. HOWEVER, it not usually read correctly, what occurred is assumed by most. This is a very complex subject that takes a lot to explain it properly. When assumption is taken out of the way,the truth starts to appear to those who pray for the understanding.
Each day is not stated as a twenty four hour day. Each day is a creation day. How long that was is not told. To assume that the statement made that says -let there be light-, is not the Sunlight; it is spiritual light. The One which was to become Jesus Christ, the light shined in the darkness!
I will stop here with these hints, for to carry on would require an entire book.

Blessings
Andy centek

 

[SkyWriting]

So why were the six days of creation specifically identified?

They were all part of the perfect symbolism intended only as a story, useful for future orderliness.
Exodus 31:17
"It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."


If it was a PRACTICAL example then the sun would have been
shining starting even before day one. The sun and the spinning earth
is how we define what a day is. Those of us who are limited to
one point on earth define it that way.

 

[DavidFirth]

Greetings:

Each day of the creation is given in Genesis 1. HOWEVER, it not usually read correctly, what occurred is assumed by most. This is a very complex subject that takes a lot to explain it properly. When assumption is taken out of the way,the truth starts to appear to those who pray for the understanding.
Each day is not stated as a twenty four hour day. Each day is a creation day. How long that was is not told. To assume that the statement made that says -let there be light-, is not the Sunlight; it is spiritual light. The One which was to become Jesus Christ, the light shined in the darkness!
I will stop here with these hints, for to carry on would require an entire book.

Blessings
Andy centek

I have read many times that the Hebrew word used in Genesis for 'day' is the Hebrew word that means a 24 hour day. It is elsewhere in the OT and it means 24 hour day.

I believe that if it had taken longer than a day then God would have made it abundantly clear.

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

I have read many times that the Hebrew word used in Genesis for 'day' is the Hebrew word that means a 24 hour day. It is elsewhere in the OT and it means 24 hour day.

I believe that if it had taken longer than a day then God would have made it abundantly clear.

Doesnt scripture say "1 day s like a 1000 years to God ". I don't really think it is necessary to take scripture literally, its not a scientific document . The number 7 is also known as a sacred number to the Jews. Let there be light can refer to the Big Bang , which is scientifically an explosion of light . Besides none of us were around to really know what happened . If God created only Adam and Eve there kids would have had to have sexual relations with each other . God cant contradict himself . Sexual relations, incest , was forbiden in the OT .I think that Christians that do not believe in science ( God is the ultimate scientist), make fools of themselves arguing for only creationism . There are others like, Bio Logos or Hue Ross, offer alternatives . I believe God could have done anything he wanted to ,in any way he wanted . I dont really care, it doesn't affect my salvation .

 

[DavidFirth]

Doesnt scripture say "1 day s like a 1000 years to God ". I don't really think it is necessary to take scripture literally, its not a scientific document . The number 7 is also known as a sacred number to the Jews. Let there be light can refer to the Big Bang , which is scientifically an explosion of light . Besides none of us were around to really know what happened . If God created only Adam and Eve there kids would have had to have sexual relations with each other . God cant contradict himself . Sexual relations, insest , was forbiden in the OT .I think that Christians that do not believe in science ( God is the ultimate scientist), make fools of themselves arguing for only creationism . There are others like, Bio Logos or Hue Ross, offer alternatives . I believe God could have done anything he wanted to ,in any way he wanted . I dont really care, it doesn't affect my salvation .

2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.


This just means time has no bearing on God. And the last clause in the verse cancels out any idea that one day=one thousand years.

 

[Ancient of Days]

Evolution or the Bible? The bible. Evolution is a fairy tale. The word of God is the truth.

 

[Darrel Slugoski]

Evolution or the Bible? The bible. Evolution is a fairy tale. The word of God is the truth.

Depends on who is defining truth or what it entails .

 

[rjs330]

Time did not really start until after the fall.
Before that Adam, was immortal.

No time started at creation ordained by God. The evening and the morning were the first day. That is time. Adam was immortal and time was irrelevant. But it still was present. Adam lived a certain number of years. Which would have included his time before the fall.

 

[Halbhh]

I have read many times that the Hebrew word used in Genesis for 'day' is the Hebrew word that means a 24 hour day. It is elsewhere in the OT and it means 24 hour day.

I believe that if it had taken longer than a day then God would have made it abundantly clear.

This also will bring to mind chapter 2, also written down by Moses, and in it verse 4 (and 17) which reads (the ESV is typical):

"These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

Here "in the day" seems to mean 'in the time when'. Especially if we are reading through fully all the chapters.

I'd never worry if a believer thinks 'day' in chapter 1 is different or the same.

I'd not worry if a believer thinks 'day' in chapter 1 is only ever figurative, or only symbolic, or if they think they are 24 hour days and also (not in the text) that the the days have to be without any time gaps (which is supposing, or guessing, really). Nor do I even worry about my own view or yours. Nor should you. I don't worry about any of those so long as that person truly is relying on Christ alone for their salvation.

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

We do have to be cautious out in the world when an atheist seeks to make the argument about Genesis chapter 1, that we don't merely fall into the snare of the enemy (the deciever) and end up merely defending a way of interpreting Genesis chapter 1 as if our interpretation is faith itself! Or even worse, as if no other believers (instead of about 1/2) think any other way, and thus (unintentionally of course) end up misrepresenting what Christianity is, by distraction away from the Gospel, in the view of people that have little idea of what the full story of Christ is, accurately, in the 4 gospels.

Because some of the "young" -- those seeking (even if not aware they are!) -- be caused to stumble by a mere interpretation of Genesis chapter 1, just a mere view among many views.

To avoid that wrong, and the consequence -- Matthew 18:6 -- we'd better confess openly that Christians have a variety of views!

 

[rjs330]

But it do not teach that....my entire point.
Rather than "Flash" out of nothing, scripture belabors the
SLOW creation of all life and the re-fashioning of man
into a spiritual likeness.


21 God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed


created
-to shape, create-
brings about (1), clear (2), create (6),
created (32), creates (1), creating (3),
Creator (4), cut them down (1),
make (2), produced (1).

The Bible does not teach a slow process. It teaches a fast process. One day.

God said, “Let the earth produce every kind of living thing: livestock, crawling things, and wildlife.” And that’s what happened.God made every kind of wildlife, every kind of livestock, and every kind of creature that crawls on the ground. God saw how good it was.Then God said, “Let us make humanity in our image to resemble us so that they may take charge of the fish of the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the earth, and all the crawling things on earth.” - Genesis 1:24-26 Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1:24-26 - Common English Bible

The earth produced the creatures, livestock, crawling things etc. At God's command. Notice how it divides the different kinds of things that were created in one day. The words "every kind" indicate a myriad of kinds. All at once in one day. It does not include a slow process where all the creatures came from one thing which evolution claims. The Bible teaches man was created distinctly differerently than the ready of creation. Note the timeline of events. "Then God said" indicates he did the creatures first then created man. "Let us create humanity in our image" indicates a unique creation of man. Man did not come out of the animals. He came uniquely created by God. Mankind was created with a special purpose to "take charge" over the rest of creation.

God said, “Let the earth produce every kind of living thing: livestock, crawling things, and wildlife.” And that’s what happened.God created humanity in God’s own image, in the divine image God created them, male and female God created them. - Genesis 1:24,27 Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 1:24, Genesis 1:27 - Common English Bible

See the difference? God created mankind after the other animals in his own image. Not from the animals. Not from the same kind as animals but unique an distinctly differerently in his own image.

And not as a slow process but one that all occurred in one day.

 

[Halbhh]

I estimate 30-60 million souls in the U.S. are prevented from learning about Christ because of hearing that Christians think the Earth is 6,000 some odd years old, proving (in their guess) the whole Bible must be false.

But even 1 would be too many. Like the person you talk to later today.

 

[rjs330]

This also will bring to mind chapter 2, also written down by Moses, and in it verse 4 (and 17) which reads (the ESV is typical):

"These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens."

Here "in the day" seems to mean 'in the time when'. Especially if we are reading through fully all the chapters.

I'd never worry if a believer thinks 'day' in chapter 1 is different or the same.

I'd not worry if a believer thinks 'day' in chapter 1 is only ever figiruative, or only symbolic, or if they think they are 24 hour days and also (not in the text) that the the days have to be without any time gaps (which is supposing, or guessing, really). Nor do I even worry about my own view or yours. Nor should you. I don't worry about any of those so long as that person truly is relying on Christ alone for their salvation.

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

We do have to be cautious out in the world when an atheist seeks to make the argument about Genesis chapter 1, that we don't merely fall into the snare of the enemy (the deciever) and end up merely defending a way of interpreting Genesis chapter 1 as if our interpretation is faith itself! Or even worse, as if no other believers (instead of about 1/2) think any other way, and thus (unintentionally of course) end up misrepresenting what Christianity is, by distraction away from the Gospel, in the view of people that have little idea of what the full story of Christ is, accurately, in the 4 gospels.

Because some of the "young" -- those seeking (even if not aware they are!) -- be caused to stumble by a mere interpretation of Genesis chapter 1, just a mere view among many views.

To avoid that wrong, and the consequence -- Matthew 18:6 -- we'd better confess openly that Christians have a variety of views!

Yes believers have a variety of views. And you are correct that however you view Genesis 1 does not indicate whether you are saved or not. Believing in Christ is the only way to salvation, not a belief in Genesis 1 as literal history. You can believe it is allegory and still be saved because of your faith in Christ.

The challenge of Genesis is a a challenge of Biblical understanding. Do we as believers trust the words of scripture or do we decide to interpret it to mean what we want. Do we as believers trust the words of God when he says

Then God spoke all these words:Remember the Sabbath day and treat it as holy.Six days you may work and do all your tasks,but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Do not do any work on it—not you, your sons or daughters, your male or female servants, your animals, or the immigrant who is living with you.Because the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them in six days, but rested on the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. - Exodus 20:1,8-11 Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20:1, Exodus 20:8-11 - Common English Bible

Sadly many believers choose not to trust in God's words and believe instead the words of finite man. Whos wisdom is foolishness to God. Do we trust what Christ taught us and what the apostles taught us by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or do we trust what man teaches out if his own carnal mind?

It's not a matter of salvation. It's a matter of trust.

 

[Halbhh]

Yes believers have a variety of views. And you are correct that however you view Genesis 1 does not indicate whether you are saved or not. Believing in Christ is the only way to salvation, not a belief in Genesis 1 as literal history. You can believe it is allegory and still be saved because of your faith in Christ.

The challenge of Genesis is a a challenge of Biblical understanding. Do we as believers trust the words of scripture or do we decide to interpret it to mean what we want. Do we as believers trust the words of God when he says

Then God spoke all these words:Remember the Sabbath day and treat it as holy.Six days you may work and do all your tasks,but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. Do not do any work on it—not you, your sons or daughters, your male or female servants, your animals, or the immigrant who is living with you.Because the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and everything that is in them in six days, but rested on the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. - Exodus 20:1,8-11 Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20:1, Exodus 20:8-11 - Common English Bible

Sadly many believers choose not to trust in God's words and believe instead the words of finite man. Whos wisdom is foolishness to God. Do we trust what Christ taught us and what the apostles taught us by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit or do we trust what man teaches out if his own carnal mind?

It's not a matter of salvation. It's a matter of trust.

I'm an interesting case then (one among many), because I have an unusually high level of trust, more than other Christians I meet it seems usually, and I can see that in the Exodus 20 passage above this fits perfectly with either the symbolic interpretation of Genesis 1 or the concrete-no-time-gap version, or other versions like my own (I think Genesis 1 was from a vision from God (see 1 Sam 3:1 -- God uses visions often to give His word to us) with actual brief narration (that in quotes) from God, given to Moses, and Moses just like most who recieve visions in scripture did not understand all of what he was seeing the vision, but God narrated to him enough to make the only important meaning clear -- that all is His creation (not some trivial information about biology, chemistry, physics, mere time duration, etc.). Thus I expect time gaps between the days).

It may help to know I think all the Bible is Truth (with the capital T also), and that for example in chapters 2 and 3 we are told profoundly deep things about life, not mere details of history -- in other words discussing about whether the Garden was at a certain time and place is profoundly off topic to the text in my view (not saying it's uninteresting though!). If we read with openess we get changed by the deeply profound meanings.

 

[rjs330]

I estimate 30-60 million souls in the U.S. are prevented from learning about Christ because of hearing that Christians think the Earth is 6,000 some odd years old, proving (in their guess) the whole Bible must be false.

But even 1 would be too many. Like the person you talk to later today.

Well Jesus did say that few would find salvation. People will find any number of reasons not to believe. They are enslaved by sin and as Christ put it, they love darkness rather that light. Thier thoughts are continuously evil.

Using creation as a reason to disbelieve is no different than having any other excuse to disbelieve. Whether that be the many denominations or the fact that some believe the communion is actually the body and blood of Christ. There are many reasons to not believe. And Satan will use whatever he has to in order to keep people from believing. It is only our job to share the gospel of salvation. The rest of it is between men and God. I've heard it time and time again from athiests. They do not believe in God because they see no evidence of God, not because Christians believe in Genesis.

 

[rjs330]

I'm an interesting case then (one among many), because I have an unusually high level of trust, more than other Christians I meet it seems usually, and I can see that in the Exodus 20 passage above this fits perfectly with either the symbolic interpretation of Genesis 1 or the concrete-no-time-gap version, or other versions like my own (I think Genesis 1 was from a vision from God (see 1 Sam 3:1 -- God uses visions often to give His word to us) with actual brief narration (that in quotes) from God, given to Moses, and Moses just like most who recieve visions in scripture did not understand all of what he was seeing the vision, but God narrated to him enough to make the only important meaning clear -- that all is His creation (not some trivial information about biology, chemistry, physics, mere time duration, etc.). Thus I expect time gaps between the days).

Yes many have that belief. However it is not one supported by Scripture itself. In order to have the belief you hold you must ignore what the scripture says and insert your own belief system into it. It takes a lot of interpretive gymnastics in order to not hold to what scripture actually says. Me, I'm kind of simple minded really. It's a lot easier for me to just accept what it says rather than try and figure out ways to have it say something else.