Establish The Law

[Clare73]

In Hebrew every letter has a symbolic meaning. Context helps but we need to go way beyond that if we want to properly understand the Word of God. A is the first letter and it represents the Ox or the lead animal in a herd.
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My post is in regard to Greek.

 

[Diamond72]

My post is in regard to Greek.

Other than what Jesus said, we can take everything back to Moses to see what he says about it.

 

[Diamond72]

How am I getting the cart before the horse?

The law does not save us. But if we are saved, we try to live according to the righteous requirements of the law.

 

[Gary K]

The law does not save us. But if we are saved, we try to live according to the righteous requirements of the law.

How does quoting 1Corinthians 1:30 advocate keeping the law to become righteous? It is impossible to take that out of 1Corinthians 1:30.

But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The Greek word translated righteousness means justification. That text means Jesus is our one stop person for all righteousness.

 

[Diamond72]

The Greek word translated righteousness means justification.

This was exactly what I was talking to Paul about. Only it had to do with being right and good. Under grace we can be right before God. Under the law people can be good. Paul quotes David and David uses both words right and good. Justice has to do with Judgement. God impressed it upon me many times that He is a God of absolute justice. Just like the natural laws of the Universe are very exact, precise and can not be broken.

 

[Gary K]

This was exactly what I was talking to Paul about. Only it had to do with being right and good. Under grace we can be right before God. Under the law people can be good. Paul quotes David and David uses both words right and good. Justice has to do with Judgement. God impressed it upon me many times that He is a God of absolute justice. Just like the natural laws of the Universe are very exact, precise and can not be broken.

OK. I understand you now. I just think you have an odd way of expressing ourself. To assume another person knows what you're thinking is a pretty bad mistake to make. But, I've been there and done that.

 

[Clare73]

Other than what Jesus said, we can take everything back to Moses to see what he says about it.

Don't recall Moses having a whole lot to say about
salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works (Eph 2:8-9),
obsolesence of the Mosaic covenant (Heb 8:13).
abolishment of the ceremonial law (Eph 2:15),
admittance of Gentiles into the seed of Abraham, the people of God (Gal 3:29),
the church as the body of Christ in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:30-32),
etc., etc., etc.

 

[Gary K]

Don't recall Moses having a whole lot to say about
salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works (Eph 2:8-9),
obsolesence of the Mosaic covenant (Heb 8:13).
abolishment of the ceremonial law (Eph 2:15),
admittance of Gentiles into the seed of Abraham, the people of God (Gal 3:29),
the church as the body of Christ in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:30-32),
etc., etc., etc.

You're mistaken on some of your assertions.

Exo_12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

There are are a bunch of quotes in the writings of Moses on the above concept. The abolishment of the ceremonial law is implied throughout most of Moses' writings as they pointed forward to the Messiah and were abolished by the death of Jesus. And as the Gentiles were to be as one homeborn if they chose to join the Israselites in worshiping God your last statement as to the enfleshment of the two-in-one marital union is also very strongly implied.

 

[Diamond72]

Don't recall Moses having a whole lot to say about
salvation through faith in Jesus Christ

ONLY and I repeat ONLY Jesus can add to what Moses said. That means the red letters in your New Testiment. Deuteronomy 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him."

 

[Clare73]

ONLY and I repeat ONLY Jesus can add to what Moses said. That means the red letters in your New Testiment. Deuteronomy 18:15 "The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him."

Agreed, and that wasn't one of the things listed about which Moses had nothing to say.

 

[daq]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Establish-[G2476] histemi=set, stand, make stand, establish

Romans 5:
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Romans 10:
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness,
have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Ephesians 6:
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day,
and having done all, to stand.

I presented them as a meditation on the Word of God. That is not something I can do for another. I am not trying to be snarky, let the word study and the verses speak to you personally.

As I meditated on "establishing the Torah" the following passage came to mind:

Exodus 22:7-9
7 When a man gives silver or goods to his neighbor to guard, and it is stolen out of the man's house, if the thief is found, he shall repay double.
8 If the thief is not found, then the master of the house shall be brought before haElohim to see whether he has put his hand unto his neighbor's goods.
9 For every matter of transgression, for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for garment, or for whatever is lost which another may claim to be his own, let the matter of both come before haElohim: and whomever Elohim declares wrong shall repay double to his neighbor.

The first two occurrences of Elohim, (in red), have the definite article attached. The third occurrence of Elohim, (in blue), does not have the definite article attached. The first two occurrences, haElohim, speak of the Judges of the people, and thus, the Judges of the people are being called haElohim, "the Elohim", plural, just as Psalm 82:6 confirms and the Master himself repeats in John 10:34-36.

KEY:

How did the Judges of the people decide such judgments in cases such as the above Exodus passage? No doubt they consulted the Torah, and they were to know the Torah like the back of their hand, and therefore the Torah in the above Exodus passage is being called Elohim, (in blue, without the definite article).

The Elohim-Judges are therefore to consult Elohim, that is, the Torah, and whatever Elohim declares, that is the judgment: and this requires LOGOS, the understanding of the reasoning in the Torah and its righteous judgments.

Now therefore we have established the Torah: for the Torah is called Elohim, and cannot be nullified, and the Torah is the Word of the Father, and likewise we understand that the Son is the Word.

 

[Clare73]

As I meditated on "establishing the Torah" the following passage came to mind:

Exodus 22:7-9
7 When a man gives silver or goods to his neighbor to guard, and it is stolen out of the man's house, if the thief is found, he shall repay double.
8 If the thief is not found, then the master of the house shall be brought before haElohim to see whether he has put his hand unto his neighbor's goods.
9 For every matter of transgression, for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for garment, or for whatever is lost which another may claim to be his own, let the matter of both come before haElohim: and whomever Elohim declares wrong shall repay double to his neighbor.

The first two occurrences of Elohim, (in red), have the definite article attached. The third occurrence of Elohim, (in blue), does not have the definite article attached. The first two occurrences, haElohim, speak of the Judges of the people, and thus, the Judges of the people are being called haElohim, "the Elohim", plural, just as Psalm 82:6 confirms and the Master himself repeats in John 10:34-36.

KEY:

How did the Judges of the people decide such judgments in cases such as the above Exodus passage? No doubt they consulted the Torah, and they were to know the Torah like the back of their hand, and therefore the Torah in the above Exodus passage is being called Elohim, (in blue, without the definite article).

The Elohim-Judges are therefore to consult Elohim, that is, the Torah, and whatever Elohim declares, that is the judgment: and this requires LOGOS, the understanding of the reasoning in the Torah and its righteous judgments.

Now therefore we have established the Torah: for the Torah is called Elohim, and cannot be nullified, and the Torah is the Word of the Father, and likewise we understand that the Son is the Word.

Keeping in mind that the Son is the Word who is God, the Son is not the Word of God, the Son is not speech.

Nowhere does Jesus ever refer to himself as the Word of God, and nowhere in NT apostolic teaching is he ever called the Word of God.

 

[Gary K]

Keeping in mind that the Son is the Word who is God, the Son is not the Word of God, the Son is not speech.

Nowhere does Jesus ever refer to himself as the Word of God, and nowhere in NT apostolic teaching is he ever called the Word of God.

Hmmm. John said just the opposite. I could have sworn John was an apostle.

J oh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Edit:

Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

 

[Clare73]

Hmmm. John said just the opposite. I could have sworn John was an apostle.

I dunno'. . .are you sure about that?

J oh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Edit: 1 Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

Good question.

However, "Word" here refers to the gospel, and "Life" refers to Christ; i.e.

"That (life) which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched" = Christ.
"The life appeared, we have seen it, and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life (5:20), which was with the Father and has appeared to us" = Christ.

Word of life = the gospel of Christ.

 

[Gary K]

Good question.

However, "Word" here refers to the gospel, and "Life" refers to Christ.

"That (life) which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched" = Christ.
"The life appeared, we have seen it, and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life (5:20), which was with the Father and has appeared to us" = Christ.

Word of life = the gospel of Christ.

I disagree with you on 1st John. It is a direct reference to Jesus. How you can say it is "only" a reference to the gospel makes no sense for John's writings outside of Revelation are all about Jesus.

So the 1st chapter of John talking about Jesus is meaningless?

 

[Clare73]

I dunno'. . .are you sure about that?
Good question.
However, "Word" here refers to the gospel, and "Life" refers to Christ; i.e.

"That (life) which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched" = Christ.
"The life appeared, we have seen it, and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life (5:20), which was with the Father and has appeared to us" = Christ.

Word of life = the gospel of Christ.

I disagree with you on 1st John. It is a direct reference to Jesus. How you can say it is "only" a reference to the gospel makes no sense for John's writings outside of Revelation are all about Jesus.

So the 1st chapter of John talking about Jesus is meaningless?

Then you need to examine the demonstration from the text itself which I presented above.

 

[Gary K]

Then you need to examine the demonstration from the text itself which I presented above.

I did when I read it. How is John talking about physically handling Jesus have anything to do with your assertion?

 

[daq]

Keeping in mind that the Son is the Word who is God, the Son is not the Word of God, the Son is not speech.

Nowhere does Jesus ever refer to himself as the Word of God, and nowhere in NT apostolic teaching is he ever called the Word of God.

You saw my words but did you perceive and understand? Hearing, you did not hear? Logos cannot be seen with the natural physical eyes of man: only the letter may be seen with physical eyes. Thus there are multiple ways to see, and one is physical and ocular while the other is supernal and inward, that is, perception and understanding, and the same goes for hearing.

Acts 7:38
38 ουτος εστιν ο γενομενος εν τη εκκλησια εν τη ερημω μετα του αγγελου του λαλουντος αυτω εν τω ορει σινα και των πατερων ημων ος εδεξατο λογια ζωντα δουναι υμιν

λογια ζωντα = Living Oracles (Sayings)

Was Stephen full of the Holy Spirit according to this passage text? Of course the answer is affirmative, and therefore, this is the N/T teaching of the Apostolic writers:

Acts 7:37-38
37 This is that Mosheh who said unto the children of Yisrael, A prophet shall Elohim raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me.
38 This is he that was with the congregation in the wilderness with the Messenger who spoke to him in Mount Sinai, and with our fathers: who received Living Oracles to give unto us:

Logia is oracles or sayings, a plural form of logion, which comes from logos. Clearly therefore, according to the above text and the Apostolic writers, the Torah contains the Living Oracles of Elohim.

However, without the understanding, which is logos-reason and reasoning, (the reason for the sayings and words written with the letters), the spiritually deaf and blind hearer and reader has no more than the letter which kills: for he or she can see the letter with the natural eyes of the natural man, but the natural mind cannot perceive or understand the Living Logos within the Living Logia of the Torah.

Anyone who reads the Psalm I referenced should be able to perceive that the Psalm speaks in regards to the Judges, (Psalms 82:1-8), and therefore it should not be not difficult to perceive and understand, (at least after having been shown in my previous post), that Psalm 82:6 is referring the reader or hearer back to the passage I also quoted from Exodus 22:7-9.

This is WHY the Master himself quotes the Psalm and says that the scripture cannot be broken: and why? because the statement is referring back to the Torah-Instruction in the Exodus 22 passage where the Judges are called haElohim.

HEAR therefore what the Master himself says about these Judges:

John 10:34-36 KJV
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? [Psalm 82:6]
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word [logos] of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Herein we have logos, the Logos-Word of Elohim, and the statement concerns those to whom the Logos of Elohim had come, and the statement concerns the Judges of Exodus 22:7-9 wherein they are called haElohim, and the scripture cannot be broken. There is therefore only one principle conclusion to be had concerning this statement:

The Logos-Word of Elohim had come to the Elohim-Judges, and therefore they are called haElohim: and therefore the Torah is the Logos-Word of Elohim, and by the testimony of Stephen in Acts 7:38, being full of the Holy Spirit, the Torah is full of the Living Oracles of Elohim.

In this manner, indeed, the one who truly understands the Torah, and walks in it according to the new Way expounded in the Testimony of the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts, surely establishes the Torah.

 

[Minister Monardo]

As I meditated on "establishing the Torah" the following passage came to mind:

Exodus 22:7-9
7 When a man gives silver or goods to his neighbor to guard, and it is stolen out of the man's house, if the thief is found, he shall repay double.
8 If the thief is not found, then the master of the house shall be brought before haElohim to see whether he has put his hand unto his neighbor's goods.
9 For every matter of transgression, for ox, for donkey, for sheep, for garment, or for whatever is lost which another may claim to be his own, let the matter of both come before haElohim: and whomever Elohim declares wrong shall repay double to his neighbor.

The first two occurrences of Elohim, (in red), have the definite article attached. The third occurrence of Elohim, (in blue), does not have the definite article attached. The first two occurrences, haElohim, speak of the Judges of the people, and thus, the Judges of the people are being called haElohim, "the Elohim", plural, just as Psalm 82:6 confirms and the Master himself repeats in John 10:34-36.

KEY:

How did the Judges of the people decide such judgments in cases such as the above Exodus passage? No doubt they consulted the Torah, and they were to know the Torah like the back of their hand, and therefore the Torah in the above Exodus passage is being called Elohim, (in blue, without the definite article).

The Elohim-Judges are therefore to consult Elohim, that is, the Torah, and whatever Elohim declares, that is the judgment: and this requires LOGOS, the understanding of the reasoning in the Torah and its righteous judgments.

Now therefore we have established the Torah: for the Torah is called Elohim, and cannot be nullified, and the Torah is the Word of the Father, and likewise we understand that the Son is the Wor

However, without the understanding, which is logos-reason and reasoning, (the reason for the sayings and words written with the letters),

Excellent posting!
Herein lies the distinction from the Word recorded:
Psalm 68:11 The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it.
and the Logos, as the Holy Spirit conveyed to me,
The scriptures record what the Lord spoke, the Logos provide what He intended.
Reason is also good, as in>
1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense
to everyone who asks you a reason (logos) for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear.
This is most evident with the word spoken by Yeshua:
"You have heard it said ... but I say to you..." Matthew 5

 

[Minister Monardo]

Anyone who reads the Psalm I referenced should be able to perceive that the Psalm speaks in regards to the Judges, (Psalms 82:1-8), and therefore it should not be not difficult to perceive and understand, (at least after having been shown in my previous post), that Psalm 82:6 is referring the reader or hearer back to the passage I also quoted from Exodus 22:7-9.

Here is another interesting reference from a study of elohim
Psalm 8:
5 For You have made him a little lower than the elohim,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
Tradition translates 'angels' and Hebrews 2 carries this forward.
But when was Yeshua ever placed below angels? He was casting
out demons and ordering them not to speak of Him as the Son of God,
for He was demonstrating the authority of the Son of man, an authority
He bestows on His disciples. The angels are identified as "ministering spirits",
which they provided to the Lord in the wilderness, and as He assured Nathaniel
"you will see angels ascending and descending upon the Son of man" John 1
However, He did set Himself below the elohim, as you have rightly identified as
the highest judges, who sit in Moses seat.
Luke 12:
13 Then one from the crowd said to Him,
“Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.”
14 But He said to him, “Man, who made Me a judge or an arbitrator over you?”
John 12:
47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him;
for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.
48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—
the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.