Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

claninja

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Yes, and it's not going to stop during Christ's Millennium reign. One of the duties of the OT priest was to teach God's Word to the people. That is what Isaiah 29 is pointing to.

The members of the church were priests in peters day, and they were spreading the gospel then:

And you are living stones that God is building into his spiritual temple. What’s more, you are his holy priests. Through the mediation of Jesus Christ, you offer spiritual sacrifices that please God.

But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
1 Peter 2:5,9 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Peter 2:5,9&version=NLT
 
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parousia70

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Today, His Kingdom is not yet manifest on earth in the literal sense, but only in the spiritual, as Satan is still free to roam the earth with wickedness not having stopped yet. When Jesus returns, and Satan locked in his pit prison, wickedness on this earth will have stopped.

So you are saying that one day the unrepentant will share in Christ's Victory over Satan?

Scripture clearly teaches that Man is fully capable of comitting the gravest of sins without ANY satanic influence at all, indeed it explicitly states that the heart of man is wicked and deceitful above ALL ELSE (even Satan) Jeremiah 17:9

Removing Satan from Planet earth will not Keep men from Sinning.
Such a view makes the Cross of Christ null and void.
 
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Tayla

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the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual
The new heavens and new earth in which we live forever in the presence of Christ in resurrected bodies; this is the kingdom of God. It is physical (and spiritual).
 
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Dave L

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I'm not a Dispensationalist, so no changing the subject please just to escape your lack of Biblical support for your theory.

John 5:28-29, which you have yet to admit proves the resurrection of damnation also happens on the day of Jesus' coming, reveals who the nations are which Jesus and His elect will reign over with the "rod of iron", during His future Millennium reign.

Today, His Kingdom is not yet manifest on earth in the literal sense, but only in the spiritual, as Satan is still free to roam the earth with wickedness not having stopped yet. When Jesus returns, and Satan locked in his pit prison, wickedness on this earth will have stopped.
The resurrection of the wicked happens AFTER the 1000 years, not before.
“The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. (Revelation 20:5)

You have Christ ruling over saints in glorified bodies with a rod of iron. And Satan deceiving them and causing them to attack the rest of the saints towards the close of the 1000 years.

You also have a "Night of the Living Dead" situation taking place in heaven instead of hell where the resurrected wicked belong according to all of scripture.
 
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Biblewriter

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Millennialists quoted Revelation to further their cause. Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea and adviser to Constantine published a history of the church up to about 325 AD. He had been alive during part of the pre-Constantine church persecutions before Christianity was legalized. In his "Ecclesiastical History,"
Eusebius published some early church leaders' objections to Revelation indicating it was a forgery not written by the Apostle John, but by an impostor named Cerinthus.
What Eusebius actually reported was the false claims of a few heretics, that the Revelation had been written by Cerenthus.
 
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Biblewriter

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I believe every main eschatology or millennial theory rests on one error. They all teach the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual. So all try to build a physical kingdom on earth in Christ’s name. This includes Amillennialists, Postmillennialists, and Premillennialists, who look for a physical kingdom of the future that will last 1000 years.


But scripture teaches the Kingdom is here now - spiritually. It is not of this world. And it is everlasting.


The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical. And this led to the Church and State persecution of innocent people by the Catholics over the centuries, and by the Lutheran and Reformed Church States to a lesser degree.


The Postmillennialists say the same thinking the Church will finally influence and dominate civil laws and magistrates. A sort of "Christianized" world. Some Dominion Postmillennial groups plan a violent takeover of the world.


Premillennialist and Dispensationalists see a physical kingdom ruling the world by force after Jesus returns.


But the common error in all groups is the physical kingdom concept and the comingling of Church and State that Jesus keeps separate when he says his kingdom is not of this world.


Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.

This is a classical example of using an interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures as an excuse to deny the explicit statements of a literal multitude of other scriptures.

The OP, and its follow-up posts, cite parts of a few scriptures, while ingoring the other parts of the very they scriptures they cite.

The first scripture cited is from John 18:36, where Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world." But it ignores the rest of the statement Jesus made at that time. For Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." John 18:36

The posted ignored one critical word from this statement made by Jesus. And that word, which is indeed critical to its understanding, is "now." "now My kingdom is not from here." Our common English translations do not do justice to the Greek text here, for the actual Greek text is not simply "nun," which literally translates as "now," but "nun de," which literally translates as "now yet."

That is, Jesus was clearly stating that the time for his kingdom to be "of this world" had not yet come, not that it would ever be "of this world."

And the second scripture cited was from Luke 17:2-20-21, where Jesus said "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21

But immediately after saying this, Jesus went on to describe what would happen when He came to set up his physical kingdom on this earth.

The problem with the basic claims of the OP and its supporters, is that they have to pretend that about an entire fifth of the entire Bible simply does not mean what it explicitly says.

While the only place in the entire Bible that states how long the future earthly kingdom will last is Revelation 20, that is only one of a great many passages of scripture that explicitly state that there will be a future physical kingdom on this earth.

And these scriptures do not just state, and explicitly state this, but they also describe this future kingdom in great detail. To deny that this will actually happen, as the Holy Spirit has explicitly told us, is to make God out to be a liar.
 
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Biblewriter

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Where do the "born in the Millennium" come from if all the populace have glorified bodies and do not marry?
No scripture even hints at an idea that in the millennium "all the populace have glorified bodies and do not marry." actually, they explicitly state the very opposite.


1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, "We will eat our own food and wear our own apparel; Only let us be called by your name, To take away our reproach." Isaiah 4:1

5 The streets of the city Shall be full of boys and girls Playing in its streets.' Zechariah 8:5

16 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "If the prince gives a gift of some of his inheritance to any of his sons, it shall belong to his sons; it is their possession by inheritance. 17 But if he gives a gift of some of his inheritance to one of his servants, it shall be his until the year of liberty, after which it shall return to the prince. But his inheritance shall belong to his sons; it shall become theirs. 18 Moreover the prince shall not take any of the people's inheritance by evicting them from their property; he shall provide an inheritance for his sons from his own property, so that none of My people may be scattered from his property." ' " Ezekiel 46:16-18


17 "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing, And her people a joy. 19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem, And joy in My people; The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her, Nor the voice of crying. 20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days, Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days; For the child shall die one hundred years old, But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed. 21 They shall build houses and inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit. 22 They shall not build and another inhabit; They shall not plant and another eat; For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people, And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. 23 They shall not labor in vain, Nor bring forth children for trouble; For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the LORD, And their offspring with them." Isaiah 65:17-23





 
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Biblewriter

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When Jesus returns, the heavens and earth pass away with a loud noise and all is burnt up. This ushers in the New Heaven and Earth. This alone says any "forever" passages in the OT need interpretation.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” (2 Peter 3:10)


“looking for and earnestly desiring the coming of the day of God, by reason of which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? But, according to his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:12–13)

This error comes from interpreting the phrase "the day of the Lord" to mean "when Jesus returns."

The scriptures contain a great amount of explicitly stated detail about what will happen when Jesus returns, and they state a great number of things that will happen between the moment when Jesus arrives and the time when the heavens will pass away.
 
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Biblewriter

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But here's another thought. The pre-tribber knows when the end happens. It is 1007 years from the "rapture". Or the Premillennialist knows too, it is 1000 years from Christ's return. This alone shows how wrong these views are.

Actually, the scriptures only say that end comes after the 1000 years, not immediately after the 1000 years. And the seven years only come after the rapture, not immediately after the rapture. So neither of your arguments have any weight at all.
 
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Biblewriter

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I agree.

But you stated Abraham has not yet inherited the physical land. Scripture states he lived and died in the promise land
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, "In Isaac your seed shall be called," 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense... 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us. Hebrews 11:17-19... 39-40
 
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claninja

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This is a classical example of using an interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures as an excuse to deny the explicit statements of a literal multitude of other scriptures.

Revelation 20 is the only scripture that I can find that mentions 1000 year reign. Is there any other scripture outside of revelation 20 that can back this up? Do any of the epistles teach a literal 1000 year earthly kingdom?
 
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Biblewriter

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The Babylonian empire, the Persian empire, the Greek empire, the Roman Empire. They don’t exist anymore so they? Or have they ended?
12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. Daniel 7:12
 
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claninja

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17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, "In Isaac your seed shall be called," 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense... 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us. Hebrews 11:17-19... 39-40

Correct, abraham did not receive what was promised: the resurrection and the heavenly city.


But according to the Israelites ,he, just one man, gained possession of the entire promised land:

“Son of man, the scattered remnants of Israel living among the ruined cities keep saying, ‘Abraham was only one man, yet he gained possession of the entire land. We are many; surely the land has been given to us as a possession.’
Ezekiel 33:24 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Ezekiel 33:24&version=NLT
 
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Biblewriter

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All of the Old Testament symbolized what is taking place now and in eternity.

Here is the central error of this entire position. If an explicitly stated promise was only symbolical, then the one who made that promise lied. There is no way around this inescapable fact.

The entire thesis makes God out to be a liar.
 
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Biblewriter

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We can bat this around some more if you like. But you still have the problem of Flesh and Blood not inheriting the Millennium (kingdom of God/heaven). And glorified saints attacking glorified saints at the end of the "millennium when Satan is loosed. This is a huge problem that takes care of all your other claims.

No scripture even hints at an idea that flesh and blood do not inherit the millennium. This is again the product of placing greater credence in a personal interpretation of the meaning of a few scriptures than in the explicit statements of a great many more other scriptures.
 
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Biblewriter

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Only glorified resurrected and raptured saints occupy the millennium. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom (the Millennium).

This is 100% contrary to a great many explicitly stated scriptures.
 
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Biblewriter

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Wail just a minute.

You have got much bigger problems to deal with besides the fact that nothing in the New Testament talks about mortals living to great age, after the Second Coming.

The root of this observation is that something has to be stated in the New Testament in order to be true. This is a denial that the entire Bible is inspired by God, and is thus all true.
 
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Biblewriter

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Thanks for clearing this up. The premill system doesn't pan out in several ways. One, you know when the end of the world and Israel's restoration (resurrection) into the New Heavens and earth takes place. But according to scripture, only the Father knows this. More if interested.

This is tied into the erroneous conclusion that Israel's blessing and the millennial state is one of resurrection. It is ineed after the resurrection of the righteous, but they are not the inhabitants of the world at that time. They will be rulers over the world, but their home will be in the "New Jerusalem," not in this world.
 
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BABerean2

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This is a classical example of using an interpretation of the meanings of a few scriptures as an excuse to deny the explicit statements of a literal multitude of other scriptures.

The OP, and its follow-up posts, cite parts of a few scriptures, while ingoring the other parts of the very they scriptures they cite.

The first scripture cited is from John 18:36, where Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world." But it ignores the rest of the statement Jesus made at that time. For Jesus said "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here." John 18:36

The posted ignored one critical word from this statement made by Jesus. And that word, which is indeed critical to its understanding, is "now." "now My kingdom is not from here." Our common English translations do not do justice to the Greek text here, for the actual Greek text is not simply "nun," which literally translates as "now," but "nun de," which literally translates as "now yet."

That is, Jesus was clearly stating that the time for his kingdom to be "of this world" had not yet come, not that it would ever be "of this world."

And the second scripture cited was from Luke 17:2-20-21, where Jesus said "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:20-21

But immediately after saying this, Jesus went on to describe what would happen when He came to set up his physical kingdom on this earth.

The problem with the basic claims of the OP and its supporters, is that they have to pretend that about an entire fifth of the entire Bible simply does not mean what it explicitly says.

While the only place in the entire Bible that states how long the future earthly kingdom will last is Revelation 20, that is only one of a great many passages of scripture that explicitly state that there will be a future physical kingdom on this earth.

And these scriptures do not just state, and explicitly state this, but they also describe this future kingdom in great detail. To deny that this will actually happen, as the Holy Spirit has explicitly told us, is to make God out to be a liar.

Like those who ignore the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8...

When are you going to deal with the above?


Like those who replace the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16...


Like those who ignore Hebrews 11:15-16...


Like those who claim modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church, during a future time...

.
 
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