Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Douggg]

where did you explain this ?

my post 389 in this thread.

 

[claninja]

When Jesus said that - he implied it to be a reference to him, His Return. The Jews, if by custom say it every year - they are not saying it in regards to embracing Jesus.

I agree it is a reference to his coming.

 

[Revealing Times]

RT, I will try to interpret what you wrote....

Rapture of the Church (pre-70th week).... Then the 70th week begins........then on day 1185 the two witnesses arrive......... then on day 1230 the abomination of desolation takes place.....then on day 1260 the beast conquers Jerusalem. The beast rules Jerusalem the remaining 1260 days of the 70th week.

Which, RT, would mean on your timeline, the two witnesses will be killed (day 1185 + 1260 days for their testimony time) on day 2475, near the end of the great tribulation, long after the Jews have fled to the wilderness, and the world in an apocalyptic state - which you are going to have the world exchanging presents over their deaths celebrating. Not hardly.

That is EXACTLY when they are killed, can't you add brother?

They are killed at the 2nd Woe, which is the 6th Trumpet and that means 7 Seals have come to pass and 5 Trumpets. The 6th Trumpet is the 2nd Woe and that is EXACTLY WHEN THEY DIE, there are three Woes, meaning the 3rd Woe is all Seven if the Vials, thus when the 7th Trump sounds in Rev. 11, its describing the END RESULTS of the 3rd Woe, Jesus takes over, but the actual 7 Vials are shown in Rev. 16, BUT.......They are the same event.

Rev. 11 covers the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry PLUS we are shown the 3rd Woe results after they die, Jesus comes back and TAKES OVER.........But we are given a more detailed account in Rev. ch. 16 because Rev. 11 is only about the Two-witnesses.

So of course the 2nd Woe is close to the end, because the 3rd Woe ends the Judgments !!

In Daniel 11, at that time, the beast will be being attacked from the south, then north, then the kings of the east. The middle east around Jerusalem will be in a state of war.

The King of the SOUTH pushes at (attacks) the King of the NORTH (Anti-Christ) and thus the KOTN Conquers him and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region and Israel. He Conquers them all, there will be no "State of War" for any length of time.

And you have no explanation of why it says 42 months in one verse 11:2 and the very next verse 1260 days in 11:3. Nor why it says 42 months in 13:5. And a time, times, half time in 12:14.

Its all the same, who cares to be honest. Of course they want everyone to know that they used the lunar calendar, thus they made sure to get every measurement in the scriptures to let us know, a MONTH must be 30 days because the said 42 Months and they also said 1260 days and they also said a time, times and half. They only point that needs to be understood is that ts 1260 days, we can call it 126 Bricks if you want as long as it means 1260 days/42 months I don't care.

What is your explanation for it?
42 x 30 = 1260
time = 1 year times = 2 year half a time = 1/2 a year

I think he knows my math is right so hes just trying to conflate things, .

Independent of bible prophecy
42 months x 30 days/month = 1260 days
a time, times, half time = 3 1/2 years

In bible prophecy, however, conversion does not apply because the timeframes are stated different for a reason(s). It is up to the reader the understand why. I have explained why.

Because of the different time expressions, the timeline of events can be put together and known - only in the one way that they can fit together.

I understand these numbers better than any engineer brother, because the Jesus mathematician taught me.... Bank on it brother !!

 

[Douggg]

That is EXACTLY when they are killed, can't you add brother?

The math is not the problem with your timeline, but when you say the two witnesses appear.

Yielding an unplausible scenario that the world will be exchanging gifts near the end of the 7 years, while the middle east is at global war, and humanity on the brink of extinction.

The two witnesses' testimony time will begin when the person first becomes the King of Israel, and ends after their battles with him once he later becomes the beast.

 

[Douggg]

I understand these numbers better than any engineer brother, because the Jesus mathematician taught me.... Bank on it brother !!

Math is not your problem. Understanding why the timeframes are different and not exact equivalents of each other - it hasn't been accepted by you yet.

 

[Douggg]

They are killed at the 2nd Woe, which is the 6th Trumpet and that means 7 Seals have come to pass and 5 Trumpets. The 6th Trumpet is the 2nd Woe and that is EXACTLY WHEN THEY DIE, there are three Woes, meaning the 3rd Woe is all Seven if the Vials, thus when the 7th Trump sounds in Rev. 11, its describing the END RESULTS of the 3rd Woe, Jesus takes over, but the actual 7 Vials are shown in Rev. 16, BUT.......They are the same event.

No, it is the telling about the 2nd woe, - the telling that has passed. In Revelation 11:14, the angel is advising - what the third woe is - is coming soon - and it is in the very next vision in Revelation 12, Satan cast down to earth, because the 7th trumpet sounds signaling the dismantling of Satan and his angel's kingdom dominion over the world.

This is the third woe, RT.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

[BABerean2]

Rev. 11 covers the Two-witnesses 1260 day Ministry PLUS we are shown the 3rd Woe results after they die, Jesus comes back and TAKES OVER.........But we are given a more detailed account in Rev. ch. 16 because Rev. 11 is only about the Two-witnesses.

Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.


Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Did Paul use the two Olive Trees as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite branches and Gentile branches grafted into the same tree in Romans chapter 11?

Did Christ say the candlesticks are a symbol of the churches in Revelation 1:20?

.

 

[Dave L]

Thanks for your response. It is helpful to know your position.

But why do you quote 1Thessalonians4:18 ? There is no encouragement - zero - in your position. It is terribly depressing.

What kind of encouragement do you expect? Would you rather at any moment receive your glorified body and immediately appear in the New Heavens and earth, sin and death free forever? (the biblical view) Or become imprisoned in a physical millennium, in your glorified body, butchering animals to "commemorate" Christ's atonement. With physical carnal delights for the self-righteous along with more sickness and death while Jesus smashes people into submission with his rod of iron? (Dispensationalism/Premillennialism).

 

[seventysevens]

imprisoned in a physical millennium, in your glorified body, butchering animals to "commemorate" Christ's atonement.

With physical carnal delights for the self-righteous along with more sickness and death while Jesus smashes people into submission with his rod of iron?

It is truly sad to see that you have no understanding of scripture and you have fallen victim of foolishness , this post shows that you have a most distorted understanding.
Most bizarre -

 

[Dave L]

It is truly sad to see that you have no understanding of scripture and you have fallen victim of foolishness , this post shows that you have a most distorted understanding.
Most bizarre -

The Premillennial (especially the pre-trib) idea of the end times is a nightmare compared to what scripture says. You think just like the blind Jews who could not see the kingdom when it was right in front of them. This also promotes a false gospel of a future kingdom that Jesus preached as a present reality.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is truly sad to see that you have no understanding of scripture and you have fallen victim of foolishness , this post shows that you have a most distorted understanding.
Most bizarre -

Well, that's eschatology for ya .............

 

[seventysevens]

The Premillennial (especially the pre-trib) idea of the end times is a nightmare compared to what scripture says. You think just like the blind Jews who could not see the kingdom when it was right in front of them. This also promotes a false gospel of a future kingdom that Jesus preached as a present reality.

It is your own foolishness that is at fault - you just don't understand what the plan of God actually is because you follow a false doctrine , it has been proven several times over that the ONLY thing you have done is make false allegations that you cannot prove ... scripture states the restoration of all things ....being made like it was in the beginning ... the beginning made in an eternal way , meaning it will last forever without corruption .. the nonsense that you believe is refusing to accept things as they are written , example if the wife wrote you a memo and said she will go to visit her mother , instead of accepting that is something that she will do in the future , you'd reason that the memo has to be at least a year old because that is when she last visited her mother , you require it to be in the past , to think that the millennium has already started and satan is now in prison , is showing no ability to properly understand what is written as it is written , Jesus often made reference to "It Is Written" meaning that things shall happen as they are written . NOT as it is falsely interpreted by those who want it to be their own way
The Kingdom
The Kingdom being within you because your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit
The Kingdom in heaven that has always existed
Thy Kingdom Come - when Jesus establishes His Kingdom on earth at His Glorious return , Just as Jesus described and the Angels endorsed it

 

[Dave L]

It is your own foolishness that is at fault - you just don't understand what the plan of God actually is because you follow a false doctrine , it has been proven several times over that the ONLY thing you have done is make false allegations that you cannot prove ... scripture states the restoration of all things ....being made like it was in the beginning ... the beginning made in an eternal way , meaning it will last forever without corruption .. the nonsense that you believe is refusing to accept things as they are written , example if the wife wrote you a memo and said she will go to visit her mother , instead of accepting that is something that she will do in the future , you'd reason that the memo has to be at least a year old because that is when she last visited her mother , you require it to be in the past , to think that the millennium has already started and satan is now in prison , is showing no ability to properly comprehend what is written as it is written , Jesus often made reference to "It Is Written" meaning that things shall happen as they are written . NOT as it is falsely interpreted by those who want it to be their own way

Jesus said: “When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches what was sown in his heart; this is the seed sown along the path.” (Matthew 13:19)

Jesus also said:
“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

 

[seventysevens]

Jesus said: “When anyone hears the word about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches what was sown in his heart; this is the seed sown along the path.” (Matthew 13:19)

Jesus also said:
“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

You now cherry pick scriptures
The Kingdom

The Kingdom being within you because your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit

The Kingdom in heaven that has always existed

Thy Kingdom Come - when Jesus establishes His Kingdom on earth at His Glorious return , Just as Jesus described and the Angels endorsed it

 

[Dave L]

You now cherry pick scriptures
The Kingdom

The Kingdom being within you because your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit

The Kingdom in heaven that has always existed

Thy Kingdom Come - when Jesus establishes His Kingdom on earth at His Glorious return , Just as Jesus described and the Angels endorsed it

You reject the kingdom of faith, instead looking for a kingdom of sight. The same mistake the Pharisees made.

 

[seventysevens]

You reject the kingdom of faith, instead looking for a kingdom of sight. The same mistake the Pharisees made.

You make the mistake of the Pharisees insisting you know better than the scriptures

Isa 2
Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.

Miicah 4
And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths " For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.

Jerimi 3
"At that time they will call Jerusalem 'The Throne of the LORD,' and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

Dan 2
In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

Mark
Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David; Hosanna in the highest!"

Just a few

 

[Dave L]

You make the mistake of the Pharisees insisting you know better than the scriptures

Isa 2
Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.

Miicah 4
And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths " For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.

Jerimi 3
"At that time they will call Jerusalem 'The Throne of the LORD,' and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

Dan 2
In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

Mark
Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David; Hosanna in the highest!"

Jew a few

The problem is that you are reading these passages as the Pharisees did, and not the way Jesus and the Apostles did. ““The law and the prophets were in force until John; since then, the good news of the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is urged to enter it.” (Luke 16:16)

 

[seventysevens]

The problem is that you are reading these passages as the Pharisees did, and not the way Jesus and the Apostles did. ““The law and the prophets were in force until John; since then, the good news of the kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is urged to enter it.” (Luke 16:16)

The Pharisees did not believe that Jesus IS KING - so you wrong again


JESUS WILL ESTABLISH HIS LAW LOL
your foolishness is focused on law
MANY scriptures give details that there will be a KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH !!!
of course your blindness does not allow you to see the truth of scripture as you are unwilling to accept the truth

 

[Dave L]

The Pharisees did not believe that Jesus IS KING - so you wrong again


JESUS WILL ESTABLISH HIS LAW LOL
your foolishness is focused on law
MANY scriptures give details that there will be a KINGDOM OF GOD ON EARTH !!!
of course your blindness does not allow you to see the truth of scripture as you are unwilling to accept the truth

Neither do you. Because his kingdom is now. You think he is a wanna be king of the future.

 

[seventysevens]

Neither do you. Because his kingdom is now. You think he is a wanna be king of the future.

Isa 2
Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it. And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war.

Miicah 4
And it will come about in the last days That the mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains It will be raised above the hills, And the peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD And to the house of the God of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths " For from Zion will go forth the law, Even the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between many peoples And render decisions for mighty, distant nations Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they train for war.

Jerimi 3
"At that time they will call Jerusalem 'The Throne of the LORD,' and all the nations will be gathered to it, to Jerusalem, for the name of the LORD; nor will they walk anymore after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

Dan 2
In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

Mark
Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David; Hosanna in the highest!"

Just a few , there are many more scriptures describing that Jesus will be KING on earth - but you can have your fallacy , have fun being deceived by it

Jesus IS and has always been KING
& will ALWAYS Be King
He will have a Kingdom on earth as well