Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[seventysevens]

Only 2 worlds (ages) mentioned in Scripture. Jesus said his kingdom (millennium) is not of this word (age) and flesh and blood cannot inherit the world (age) to come. = No Physical millennium.

You really ought to stare at that and hopefully you will see the errors of what you said here
1. worlds are not "ages"
2. millennium is not a kingdom
3.flesh and blood are replaced with gloried body like what Jesus had when he rose from the grave - has a physical aspect to it - we know that it looks like and functions like our current bodies , but obviously made from some material that humans are not aware what it is , but it does not matter as we can only have it when Jesus gives it to us - not something man can create - but a physical body that can eat , talk , walk -
4. millennium - simply means 1000 just like centennial means 100

appears there is a lot of bible knowledge you need to acquire and toss theological thinking in file 13

 

[Dave L]

You really ought to stare at that and hopefully you will see the errors of what you said here
1. worlds are not "ages"
2. millennium is not a kingdom
3.flesh and blood are replaced with gloried body like what Jesus had when he rose from the grave - has a physical aspect to it - we know that it looks like and functions like our current bodies , but obviously made from some material that humans are not aware what it is , but it does not matter as we can only have it when Jesus gives it to us - not something man can create - but a physical body that can eat , talk , walk -
4. millennium - simply means 1000 just like centennial means 100

appears there is a lot of bible knowledge you need to acquire and toss theological thinking in file 13

We can bat this around some more if you like. But you still have the problem of Flesh and Blood not inheriting the Millennium (kingdom of God/heaven). And glorified saints attacking glorified saints at the end of the "millennium when Satan is loosed. This is a huge problem that takes care of all your other claims.

 

[seventysevens]

Can you show scripture pertaining to your claim "He created man for the purpose of having a family to himself , to share Himself with , to love and be loved by His creation that knows Him personally and has an intimate relationship with Him , not just another creation"?

i can , but don't have time now , but have you not heard the scripture that says
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

If you put theology aside and think for yourself , there are things that you should see,but when you focus on what someone else tells you to see , you will miss it - do you think 900+ people that followed Jim Jones teaching actually read the bible for themselves and thought God said to commit mass murder suicide ?
when you fail to understand or forget why God created Adam and Gave Adam the earth , you will miss many other important details as well - Did God create the animal kingdom in the image of Himself ?
Did God create the angels in the image of Himself ?
Are angels redeemable when they sin ?

 

[seventysevens]

We can bat this around some more if you like. But you still have the problem of Flesh and Blood not inheriting the Millennium (kingdom of God/heaven). And glorified saints attacking glorified saints at the end of the "millennium when Satan is loosed. This is a huge problem that takes care of all your other claims.

This makes no sense your statement of "And glorified saints attacking glorified saints at the end of the "millennium when Satan is loosed."
this shows you really have no understanding what the scripture really says

 

[BABerean2]

appears there is a lot of bible knowledge you need to acquire and toss theological thinking in file 13

You are the one who thinks Christ is going to rule over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years after the Second Coming.

You do this by ignoring "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18.

You claim the Book of Revelation is in chronological order, even though Christ returns in Revelation 16:15-16 and also in chapter 19.

You ignore the judgment of the living at His Second Coming in Matthew 25:31-46.

You ignore the fact that Christ returns "in flaming fire" in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, which agrees with 2 Peter 3:10-13.
How are your mortals going to survive 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10?

You ignore Christ judging both the living and the dead at His appearing in 2 Timothy 4:1.

You must think Christ will be conducting funeral service for dead mortals during a period of 1,000 years after His Second Coming.
Where will their souls go, since Christ will be on earth?

Yours is a doctrine of ignorance, because you must ignore many passages to make it work.

.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Doesn't Revelation 19 describe the victory of the Word of God, i.e. of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

The Millennium is brought about by the victory of evangelization, converting society to a Christian one (as viewed from the 1st century when the Church was still a fringe movement on the margins of society only).

 

[Dave L]

This makes no sense your statement of "And glorified saints attacking glorified saints at the end of the "millennium when Satan is loosed."
this shows you really have no understanding what the scripture really says

Only glorified resurrected and raptured saints occupy the millennium. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom (the Millennium). The rest of the dead did not live until after it. But Satan is released near the end and rallies gog & magog (most of the glorified saints) to attack the rest of the saints. Ridiculous? Yes! But this is what you believe if pressed to the logical conclusion.

 

[Dave L]

i can , but don't have time now , but have you not heard the scripture that says
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name

If you put theology aside and think for yourself , there are things that you should see,but when you focus on what someone else tells you to see , you will miss it - do you think 900+ people that followed Jim Jones teaching actually read the bible for themselves and thought God said to commit mass murder suicide ?
when you fail to understand or forget why God created Adam and Gave Adam the earth , you will miss many other important details as well - Did God create the animal kingdom in the image of Himself ?
Did God create the angels in the image of Himself ?
Are angels redeemable when they sin ?

You are not showing any scripture bearing on why you think God created the world.

 

[DavidPT]

And the world to come is eternal, not 1000 years. It also is free of death and war. But the "millennium" has both.

The way I view the thousand years is not how you are viewing. If the thousand years are meaning when Christ returns, and that the saints have already put on immortality at that point, obviously eternity has then begun. The thousand years are simply the first thousand years of the eternal state. It is used to mark the time of satan's binding and loosing, and to mark the length of time one is reigning with Christ until satan is loosed a little season.

As to war, there is not war during the millennium. Where are you getting that idea from? War is after the millennium during satan's little season. The thousand years and satan's little season are not the same time period. The former precedes the latter, the latter follows the former.

Per the Amil millennium though, there is war during that one, and there is also war after the thousand years are finished, meaning satan's little season. Also during the Amil millennium satan can still deceive people, and he can also deceive people after the millennium, plus he can deceive ppl before the millennium. Per that view it is totally nonsensical as to why he is even in the pit to begin with if he's still doing everything he was already doing when he wasn't in the pit.

Per the Premil millennium, there is no war during that one, nor can satan deceive anyone during it.

Which millennium fits Scripture better in these regards? The Premil proposed one, or the Amil proposed one? Obviously not the latter one in this case.

 

[Dave L]

The way I view the thousand years is not how you are viewing. If the thousand years are meaning when Christ returns, and that the saints have already put on immortality at that point, obviously eternity has then begun. The thousand years are simply the first thousand years of the eternal state. It is used to mark the time of satan's binding and loosing, and to mark the length of time one is reigning with Christ until satan is loosed a little season.

As to war, there is not war during the millennium. Where are you getting that idea from? War is after the millennium during satan's little season. The thousand years and satan's little season are not the same time period. The former precedes the latter, the latter follows the former.

Per the Amil millennium though, there is war during that one, and there is also war after the thousand years are finished, meaning satan's little season. Also during the Amil millennium satan can still deceive people, and he can also deceive people after the millennium, plus he can deceive ppl before the millennium. Per that view it is totally nonsensical as to why he is even in the pit then if he's still doing everything he was already doing when he wasn't in the pit.

Per the Premil millennium, there is no war during that one, nor can satan deceive anyone during it.

Which millennium fits Scripture better in these regards? The Premil proposed one, or the Amil proposed one? Obviously not the latter one in this case.

I don't think you understand my position. I'm pointing out flaws in the premillennial/dispensational systems. Not endorsing them.

 

[DavidPT]

I don't think you understand my position. I'm pointing out flaws in the premillennial/dispensational systems. Not endorsing them.

Where are you getting the idea that I perhaps think you are endorsing the Premil system? I have better sense than that. If you can't even grasp what all I was meaning in that post, especially the fact it was simple enough for a child to follow, wonder what else you might not grasp? As in concerning Scriptures? You are pointing out alleged flaws in the Premil system. I in turn am pointing out alleged flaws in the Amil system. How that equals me thinking you are endorsing the Premil system instead, thus not understanding your position, is then pretty much implying I'm not very bright then, and that I'm incapable of reading comprehension.

Here's an idea though. Why don't you actually address that post, thus set the record straight, where you are claiming the Premil millennium consists of war, where I then concluded otherwise. Prove I am wrong and that you are right. You have to address that post though in order to do it.

 

[Dave L]

Where are you getting the idea that I perhaps think you are endorsing the Premil system? I have better sense than that. If you can't even grasp what all I was meaning in that post, especially the fact it was simple enough for a child to follow, wonder what else you might not grasp? As in concerning Scriptures? You are pointing out alleged flaws in the Premil system. I in turn am pointing out alleged flaws in the Amil system. How that equals me thinking you are endorsing the Premil system instead, thus not understanding your position, is then pretty much implying I'm not very bright then, and that I'm incapable of reading comprehension.

Thanks for clearing this up. The premill system doesn't pan out in several ways. One, you know when the end of the world and Israel's restoration (resurrection) into the New Heavens and earth takes place. But according to scripture, only the Father knows this. More if interested.

 

[claninja]

His Father's throne is not the throne of David. But if it is, prove it via other Scriptures.

Who’s throne did David and Solomon sit on?

Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king in place of David his father. And he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.
1 Chronicles 29:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Chronicles 29:23&version=ESV

 

[Revealing Times]

Only 2 worlds (ages) mentioned in Scripture. Jesus said his kingdom (millennium) is not of this word (age) and flesh and blood cannot inherit the world (age) to come. = No Physical millennium.

Jesus Kingdom is not of this world means the CURRENT FALLEN STATE of the World, not the World to come in which Jesus will reign 1000 years whilst Satan is locked into the bottomless pit.

Its very evident and biblical that Jesus reigns on earth 1000 years, UNLESS you just IGNORE SCRIPTURES.

 

[DavidPT]

You must think Christ will be conducting funeral service for dead mortals during a period of 1,000 years after His Second Coming.
Where will their souls go, since Christ will be on earth?

In this age alone, the one we are currently living in, Adam almost lived an entire thousand years, and that he did that as a mortal. Why then can't mortals live an entire thousand years in the next age if Adam almost lived that amount of years in this age? If all the mortals are dying off before the thousand years expires, who are all of these satan manages to deceive after the time of the thousand years?

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Maybe it's just me, but it sounds like it involves quite a huge number of mortals he ends up deceiving, unless...the number of whom is as the sand of the sea....isn't meant to be understand as a vast amount.

 

[claninja]

Only 2 worlds (ages) mentioned in Scripture. Jesus said his kingdom (millennium) is not of this word (age) and flesh and blood cannot inherit the world (age) to come. = No Physical millennium.

Just as the disciples were in the world (Kosmos) but not of the world, So to is the kingdom of God.

14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
John 17:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 17:14&version=ESV

 

[DavidPT]

Who’s throne did David and Solomon sit on?

Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king in place of David his father. And he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.
1 Chronicles 29:23 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Chronicles 29:23&version=ESV

Why can't it simply mean a throne provided by the Lord in order to fulfill His purposes via it, and not instead meaning literally the throne in Heaven which the Father sits upon?

 

[DavidPT]

Just as the disciples were in the world (Kosmos) but not of the world, So to is the kingdom of God.

14 I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
John 17:14 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 17:14&version=ESV

Good point, though I'm not certain which position you would be taking this to support.

 

[claninja]

Why can't it simply mean a throne provided by the Lord in order to fulfill His purposes via it, and not instead meaning literally the throne in Heaven which the Father sits upon?

Why can’t it just mean what it says it does, that David and Solomon sat on the Lord’s throne as king over Israel?

God was to be king over Israel, but Israel rejected him and demanded a man to be king:

And the Lord said to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.
1 Samuel 8:7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Samuel 8:7&version=ESV

Thus David and Solomon sat on God’s throne over Israel as king.

Are you of a part of the true Israel, the body of Christ?

Is Jesus your king?

If yes, then Christ already sits on the throne as king of Israel.

 

[claninja]

Good point, though I'm not certain which position you would be taking this to support.

The position that says the kingdom is here in the world today, but not of it. It is not a kingdom of food and drink (physical things)

For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Romans 14:17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 14:17&version=ESV

Flesh and blood cannot see or enter this kingdom, but those born again can.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 3:5&version=ESV