Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

Absolute Nonsense , one of the Most Ridiculous things anyone has ever said - no wonder you don't understand - God pours out His wrath on Himself ? Ludicrous to the core is the nicest way to put it , total insanely lack of all sensibility

Jon10
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. 20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”

You seem to subscribe the same as verse 19 ,20

Did Jesus die for your sins? Then he absorbed the wrath unbelievers must absorb themselves. Please read Isaiah 53 and reconsider.

 

[JesusForAll]

If you believe that then go for it , you certainly are not doing anything positive here , being intentionally disrespectful is NOT of Christ !

Well, I do. And my point is concentrate on Jesus rather then looking forward to a vacation in the sky.
If you think my posts are disrespectful then I would be able to claim the same of yours, but I don’t.
This is a FORUM for discussion and points to be laid out, isn’t it?
If your feelings are hurt by someone having a different understanding than yours and stating it, then maybe truth is hitting you square in the face.
The thing is is that I’m sure the pre tribulation is wrong because of any only because of scripture.

 

[Dave L]

You just keep on living with your false assumptions brother, but we all have to answer for how we led others during our lifetimes. Closing your eyes to the facts don't change the facts. I see these types all the time, they can never receive of God because they already understand everything, SADLY.

You are claiming something you cannot prove from scripture. If so, you would have done it by now. There is no pre-trib rapture. Only Paul's rapture that follows the resurrection of the dead.

 

[JesusForAll]

Rapture theory is not a salvation issue. It’s eschatology and theology. Believing in pre tribulation does not save you.

 

[Dave L]

Rapture theory is not a salvation issue. It’s eschatology and theology. Believing in pre tribulation does not save you.

But it tampers with Revelation and adds to it....Big no no.

 

[JesusForAll]

I see at this point there’s no use in talking about “the rapture”. Everyone, including myself, has degraded to a back and forth opinion war.

 

[seventysevens]

Did Jesus die for your sins? Then he absorbed the wrath unbelievers must absorb themselves. Please read Isaiah 53 and reconsider.

That was in no way Gods wrath , from the beginning God knew humankind would sin , and sin cannot exist in the presence of a Holy God , no animal sacrifice can atone for this sin we are born into , only a PURE SINLESS sacrifice can do that , and there would never ever be a human that is PURE SINLESS to make that sacrifice , so the ONLY way that God could redeem His creation made in the image of Himself is to be the sacrificial Lamb - otherwise he would have to destroy humans altogether - which is exactly what satan wants -
you have shown there is Much you simply do not understand of scripture and the reasons for it

 

[JesusForAll]

But it tampers with Revelation and adds to it....Big no no.

I agree that actually adding to or taking away from the book of Revelation is bad. But misunderstanding out of a heart for Christ is not the same thing. I don’t question anyone’s salvation here and I understand different views on non salvation issues are an ignorance thing and not intentional. I was there with the pre trig rapture at one time too but I was still saved.

 

[Andy centek]

Well, I do. And my point is concentrate on Jesus rather then looking forward to a vacation in the sky.
If you think my posts are disrespectful then I would be able to claim the same of yours, but I don’t.
This is a FORUM for discussion and points to be laid out, isn’t it?
If your feelings are hurt by someone having a different understanding than yours and stating it, then maybe truth is hitting you square in the face.
The thing is is that I’m sure the pre tribulation is wrong because of any only because of scripture.

Blessings

Well, I do. And my point is concentrate on Jesus rather then looking forward to a vacation in the sky.
If you think my posts are disrespectful then I would be able to claim the same of yours, but I don’t.
This is a FORUM for discussion and points to be laid out, isn’t it?
If your feelings are hurt by someone having a different understanding than yours and stating it, then maybe truth is hitting you square in the face.
The thing is is that I’m sure the pre tribulation is wrong because of any only because of scripture.

 

[Andy centek]

Rapture theory is not a salvation issue. It’s eschatology and theology. Believing in pre tribulation does not save you.

Blessings Jesus 4 All:

So good to see someone who reads the Bible scriptures and understands what they are telling! Indeed, they are so often read, or used, out of context.
Who did Jesus say He was sent too? Not everyone. Who did Jesus send to the Gentiles, the apostle Paul. So then, they need to take care of what Paul taught and not what Jesus taught to the Jews only. Go not to the Gentiles Jesus told His disciples! Yet all that He told to Israel is being used daily for all.

Andy Centek

 

[συνείδησις]

That was in no way Gods wrath...

If it wasn't GOD's wrath, what was it?

 

[seventysevens]

If it wasn't GOD's wrath, what was it?

Surprising that you do not know this basic fact that as I said ,. animal sacrifices cannot make an atonement for sin that we are born into - that sin that was because of Adam disobeying Gods command , that disobedience caused Adam and Eve to be kicked out of the Garden Eden , before that happened God walked with , in the physical presence with Adam in Eden , but after Adam disobeyed , sin came in and sin cannot exist in the presence of a Holy God , so the only way God can redeem His beloved creation is for the creation to sacrifice a PURE SINLESS human to make that atonement - well because all humans are born into the same of Adam , no human can make the atonement - The SOLE and ONLY purpose that God became a human man(Jesus) was for the purpose to suffer and take on the sins of all humankind upon Himself and He made the atonement for us , because Jesus did this for his beloved creation we can now be saved if we believe in Jesus and His atonement for us at the cross -
if that was not needed , God would not have become a human man and virgin Mary would not have given birth to Jesus--
those who do not believe will not be saved and not spend eternity with Christ in eternity

Wrath is defined as FIERCE ANGER - like what is coming upon the earth in the near future

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God

 

[Douggg]

God poured out his wrath on Jesus in our place on the cross. How do you explain this?

“After these things I looked, and here was an enormous crowd that no one could count, made up of persons from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb dressed in long white robes, and with palm branches in their hands.” (Revelation 7:9)

“Then one of the elders asked me, “These dressed in long white robes—who are they and where have they come from?” So I said to him, “My lord, you know the answer.” Then he said to me, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb!” (Revelation 7:13–14)

Martyred tribulation saints. Them who become Christians after the resurrection/rapture, who refused to worship the beast or his image.

 

[Douggg]

There is no pre tribulational rapture.
When you’re resurrected that’s it, Christ has come. So watch and be ready!

There won’t be a partial coming in the sky and taking the church then he goes back up to work on “Israel”. There won’t be a chance for “Israel” to repent and be saved in some 7 year “tribulation” and on and on and on...

What are doing for Christ now? Because you won’t be hanging out in the air while the crap goes down on earth.

The rapture, the translation of the living, may indeed happen pre-70th week. It is just not mandatory that it has to. The rapture could take place right this second.

 

[keras]

There is no 'rapture to heaven' for anyone. No Bible verse says this will happen.
Those who believe this teaching, have been deceived, however this false belief does not affect their Salvation, but it will make it more difficult for them to cope with all that must happen before Jesus Returns.

What the Prophetic Word does tell us God will do for His people, those who stand firm in their faith; is protection through all that must happen. Dozens of verses state how the Lord will protect His own through fire, Isaiah 43:2 and the 3 men in the furnace, Daniel 3:19-27, are examples.
We are told to Call upon the Name of the Lord and we will be saved. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21.

Then the Lord promises to bless His people, as they fulfil their tasks of being the Lord’s witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and His Light to the nations; Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

 

[συνείδησις]

Wrath is defined as FIERCE ANGER

Wasn't that what GOD, the father, expressed towards Jesus? Beat by Roman soldiers, skin flayed, hair pulled out, mocked and ridiculed, nailed to a cross, hung for hours. Sounds pretty brutal.

 

[seventysevens]

Wasn't that what GOD, the father, expressed towards Jesus? Beat by Roman soldiers, skin flayed, hair pulled out, mocked and ridiculed, nailed to a cross, hung for hours. Sounds pretty brutal.

Geez , how is it that you just don't understand , WRATH is anger - God is Not angry with Jesus at any time , simply put most good parents would rather give their life to save the life of their children so their children can continue to live ,

There are people who would go to prison to keep their loved ones from going to prison =
God became a human for the sole purpose to take the punishment of mans sin - just like a good father that would give his own life to die in order to save the life of his children , God became human to pay the debt of sin for all humans sin because that is the Only way that humans would ever get to be with the Father in heaven

 

[συνείδησις]

Geez , how is it that you just don't understand , WRATH is anger - God is Not angry with Jesus at any time , simply put most good parents would rather give their life to save the life of their children so their children can continue to live ,

You really don't understand the cross, do you?

 

[seventysevens]

You really don't understand the cross, do you?

YES I DO - you obviously have no understanding at all . JESUS IS GOD ! GOD became human for the PURPOSE of sacrifice , without doing so you would never see God in heaven , never , Jesus IS 100% GOD and 100% human at the same time ! to say that God put wrath on Jesus is saying that GOD put wrath on GOD - foolish to the nth degree !
The Holy Trinity is ONE GOD not 3 - Jesus Himself says that HE IS ALMIGHTY GOD THE FIRST AND THE LAST -THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA -JESUS IS THE FATHER -JESUS IS THE SON
The only reason Jesus was on the cross is to save all of mankind that is why it is called Salvation !

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Geez , how is it that you just don't understand , WRATH is anger - God is Not angry with Jesus at any time , simply put most good parents would rather give their life to save the life of their children so their children can continue to live ,

Wrath:

3709. orge or-gay' by implication punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

Luke 21
22 because these are days of vengeance<1557>, to fulfill all things that have been written. [Daniel 12:1]
23 ‘And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days;
for there shall be great distress on the land, and wrath<3709> on this people; [Revelation 11:18]
24 and they shall fall by the mouth of the sword, and shall be led captive to all the nations, [Reve 13:10]
and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by nations, till the times of nations be fulfilled.

Strong's Number G3709 matches the Greek ὀργή (orgē), which occurs 36 times in 34 verses
Used in 5 verses of the Gosples

That exact form of #3709 is used 1 time in Revelation:

Revelation 11
18 and the nations were angry<3710>, and Thine anger/wrath<3709> did come, and the time of the dead, to be judged, and to give the reward to Thy servants, to the prophets, and to the saints,
and to those fearing Thy name, to the small and to the great, and to destroy those who are destroying the land.’

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away. [Luke 21:23]
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.