Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

Is that the only reason that you would have children - ?

If you do not seek God's glory in all that you do, whose glory are you seeking?

 

[Davy]

I believe every main eschatology or millennial theory rests on one error. They all teach the Kingdom of God is physical instead of being spiritual. So all try to build a physical kingdom on earth in Christ’s name. This includes Amillennialists, Postmillennialists, and Premillennialists, who look for a physical kingdom of the future that will last 1000 years.


But scripture teaches the Kingdom is here now - spiritually. It is not of this world. And it is everlasting.


The Amillennialists say the kingdom is here now, but it is physical. And this led to the Church and State persecution of innocent people by the Catholics over the centuries, and by the Lutheran and Reformed Church States to a lesser degree.


The Postmillennialists say the same thinking the Church will finally influence and dominate civil laws and magistrates. A sort of "Christianized" world. Some Dominion Postmillennial groups plan a violent takeover of the world.


Premillennialist and Dispensationalists see a physical kingdom ruling the world by force after Jesus returns.


But the common error in all groups is the physical kingdom concept and the comingling of Church and State that Jesus keeps separate when he says his kingdom is not of this world.


Any thoughts or rebuttals appreciated.

Your theory (and it is but a theory) against the Rev.20 event of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, is really a great prop for today's deceived on the globalist plan for a "one world government." The deceived don't want Jesus to return to this earth and take reign over all nations like God's Word emphatically declares.

There will be a physical kingdom established ON this earth with Jesus' future reign. All of God's prophets spoke of it. To deny God's Holy Writ on that is essentially to deny God's Holy Writ and try to replace it with something else. The something else agenda today is the globalist one-world communist-socialist plan for a "one world government".

Are you a Communist or Socialist??

 

[Dave L]

Your theory (and it is but a theory) against the Rev.20 event of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, is really a great prop for today's deceived on the globalist plan for a "one world government." The deceived don't want Jesus to return to this earth and take reign over all nations like God's Word emphatically declares.

There will be a physical kingdom established ON this earth with Jesus' future reign. All of God's prophets spoke of it. To deny God's Holy Writ on that is essentially to deny God's Holy Writ and try to replace it with something else. The something else agenda today is the globalist one-world communist-socialist plan for a "one world government".

Are you a Communist or Socialist??

There are only 2 worlds mentioned in scripture. This present evil world, and the world to come. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. So this rules out world #1. And the world to come is eternal, not 1000 years. It also is free of death and war. But the "millennium" has both.

 

[συνείδησις]

That wouldn't be the reason why I take issue with it though. Jesus is currently set down, not in His own throne, but in His Father's throne. His Father's throne is not the throne of David. But if it is, prove it via other Scriptures.

What do you mean it's not his throne? Everything belongs to the father and he gave the throne of David to Christ. Where he sits is the throne because he is the king.

 

[συνείδησις]

There are only 2 worlds mentioned in scripture. This present evil world, and the world to come. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. So this rules out world #1. And the world to come is eternal, not 1000 years. It also is free of death and war. But the "millennium" has both.

Christ said his disciples were in the world, but not of it. Of heaven doesn't necessitate being in heaven.

 

[seventysevens]

If you do not seek God's glory in all that you do, whose glory are you seeking?

Nothing was said about what people do , you totally missed the point . Did God ever put himself in position where he would suffer torture for the sake of the animal kingdom so they could be saved , or the angels so they could be saved ? No He did no such thing - but He did do it for mankind that he created in the image of Himself - it was not just another thing to create , not just some amusement for Himself cause he was bored - He created man for the purpose of having a family to himself , to share Himself with , to love and be loved by His creation that knows Him personally and has an intimate relationship with Him , not just another creation

 

[Davy]

There are only 2 worlds mentioned in scripture. This present evil world, and the world to come. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. So this rules out world #1. And the world to come is eternal, not 1000 years. It also is free of death and war. But the "millennium" has both.

When my Lord Jesus said His kingdom is not of 'this world', that is exactly right. His Kingdom is of the future world to come, and it will be a physical kingdom established on this earth, as written in God's Old Testament prophets, and in the New Testament.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

2 Tim 4:1
4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom;
KJV

Just a few Scriptures of many that show a literal kingdom yet to come under Jesus Christ.

 

[ebedmelech]

More private interpretations

It really doesn't matter if it is 1000 years or 100000 years - point is there are matters that must be fulfilled before the new earth and new heaven come , amils interpretation is like saying the first day of high school is the day they graduate without actually having to go to school for the duration
When Jesus returns he does not destroy the earth until after all that scripture say will be done is done - and that is why amil always look into the past and squeeze the square peg into the round hole to force things that will be done as if they were
when they are not yet

You can call it private interpretations...but the FACT is every passage is scripture and as I said, shows God using 1000 as a symbolic number representing a much longer period of time or a quantity much more than it is. It's called scripture interpreting scripture. Moreover the apostle Peter, the Psalmist, and God are doing the same.

I never said Jesus destroys the earth. I say what He says..."behold I make all things new". The fire will purge the earth

Yes I am amillennial, and I do not look to a "literal 1000 year reign" of Christ when Christ is reigning right now. You're welcome keep looking for it though. The contraption of eschatology you follow is wholly flawed. Keep looking for the 70th week.

There's nothing remaining to be fulfilled except for all that God has given Christ to come to Him. The it's over Christ will judge all.

 

[seventysevens]

There are only 2 worlds mentioned in scripture. This present evil world, and the world to come. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. So this rules out world #1. And the world to come is eternal, not 1000 years. It also is free of death and war. But the "millennium" has both.

lol , Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world- only for that time that he came to die for His creation - then later on he would be King of this world
you a bit mixed up

 

[seventysevens]

You can call it private interpretations...but the FACT is every passage is scripture and as I said, shows God using 1000 as a symbolic number representing a much longer period of time or a quantity much more than it is. It's called scripture interpreting scripture. Moreover the apostle Peter, the Psalmist, and God are doing the same.

I never said Jesus destroys the earth. I say what He says..."behold I make all things new". The fire will purge the earth

Yes I am amillennial, and I do not look to a "literal 1000 year reign" of Christ when Christ is reigning right now. You're welcome keep looking for it though. The contraption of eschatology you follow is wholly flawed. Keep looking for the 70th week.

There's nothing remaining to be fulfilled except for all that God has given Christ to come to Him. The it's over Christ will judge all.

You can say There's nothing remaining to be fulfilled except for all that God has given Christ to come to Him., but that be wrong because there are various things that have to happen before Christ comes to judge - that is what you are refusing

 

[BABerean2]

You can say There's nothing remaining to be fulfilled except for all that God has given Christ to come to Him., but that be wrong because there are various things that have to happen before Christ comes to judge - that is what you are refusing

Lets get out our Scofield Reference Bible and see what they are...

.

 

[Davy]

There are only 2 worlds mentioned in scripture. This present evil world, and the world to come. Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world. So this rules out world #1. And the world to come is eternal, not 1000 years. It also is free of death and war. But the "millennium" has both.

There's 2 separate dimensions shown in God's Word, this earthly one and the heavenly one where God's Abode is, where Paradise (Eden) is, and also where hell is. That is different than the idea of separate world ages.

What you have failed to understand is that the future world to come will end many things of this present world, and the heavenly dimension will be opened for all to see, flesh death being swallowed up:

Isa 25:5-9
5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.

6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, 'Lo, This is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: This is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.'
KJV

For all peoples left on earth on the day of the Lord, the veil God put over today's world will be lifted, the heavenly and earthly dimensions actually joined in the same time and space. The only type of death remaining then will be the "second death" of Rev.20, which is the casting into the future "lake of fire". In that future, Christ's kingdom will not be just a spiritual kingdom like it is today. It will literally... manifest upon this earth after the cleansing of 2 Peter 3:10.

 

[seventysevens]

Lets get out our Scofield Reference Bible and see what they are...
.

Not making sense - believing there is nothing left to be fulfilled is heresy and totally false , all you need is the original Holy Bible to know - not some private interpretations of men you follow

 

[Revealing Times]

I believe Rev 20 provides an overview of the New Covenant era. I also read Revelation not chronologically, but as a series of visions depicting the same world and heavenly conditions throughout the New Covenant era. Some call it the "Recapitulation view."

The key is in finding end of the world scenarios throughout the book. And then beginning a new series of visions leading up to the end again. This I believe forms 7 visions depicting different elements of the same events. Like the gospel provide 4 different views of the same.

True..........Revelation is not in chronological order, but there is an order to it, followed by "Parenthetical Citations".

Rev. 1-3 is the Church Age or 7 Churches.

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church seen in Heaven just before the Seals are opened.

Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9 and 16 are the Seal, Trumpet and Vials of God with chapter 7 showing the Jews (144,000) fleeing Judea and being "SEALED in Petra" for protection. And the Raptured Church is shown in Heaven as having come out of the GREAT TRIBULATION as in 2000>7 as per tribulation.

Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 18 and 19 are Parenthetical Citations so to speak. Things that are covered via the time slots of the Seal, Trumpet and Vial chapters are now brought forth and placed into a greater spotlight, but they have happened already.

For instance the Woman (Israel) in chapter 12 flees at the Middle of the week (1260 Event). The beast Arises out of the Sea in Rev. 13 at the 1260 Event. The Harlot will be destroyed when the Beast arises (Rev. 17's Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION) Rev. 18 is Babylon (The Whole World) being destroyed by the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Plagues so it starts at the 1260 and runs to the 7th Vial.

Rev. 11 covers the full 1260 days of the Two-witnesses Ministry starting at the 1335 Event and going to the 2nd Woe, and even further, it shows Jesus taking back the Kingdoms after the Two-witnesses die.

Then Rev. 14 is the two Harvests the Harvest of the Church via verse 14 and the Harvest of the Wicked TARES who grow with the WHEAT (Israel) until the end, then they are placed into the Wine-press of Gods Wrath.

Rev. 19 is the Church in Heaven Marrying the Lamb and returning for the Battle of Armageddon, we see the Church with White Robes in in chapters 4, 5 and 7 so this must cover the full 7 years the Church is in Heaven.

 

[ebedmelech]

You can say There's nothing remaining to be fulfilled except for all that God has given Christ to come to Him., but that be wrong because there are various things that have to happen before Christ comes to judge - that is what you are refusing

Correction...various things you think must happen. That's why when Christ appears...you will be stunned.

 

[seventysevens]

Correction...various things you think must happen. That's why when Christ appears...you will be stunned.

Wrong again - I look for Jesus to come at any time , but still there are things that will happen before he comes - since you refuse to believe it , it will be you that is stunned

 

[Dave L]

There's 2 separate dimensions shown in God's Word, this earthly one and the heavenly one where God's Abode is, where Paradise (Eden) is, and also where hell is. That is different than the idea of separate world ages.

What you have failed to understand is that the future world to come will end many things of this present world, and the heavenly dimension will be opened for all to see, flesh death being swallowed up:

Isa 25:5-9
5 Thou shalt bring down the noise of strangers, as the heat in a dry place; even the heat with the shadow of a cloud: the branch of the terrible ones shall be brought low.

6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, 'Lo, This is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: This is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.'
KJV

For all peoples left on earth on the day of the Lord, the veil God put over today's world will be lifted, the heavenly and earthly dimensions actually joined in the same time and space. The only type of death remaining then will be the "second death" of Rev.20, which is the casting into the future "lake of fire". In that future, Christ's kingdom will not be just a spiritual kingdom like it is today. It will literally... manifest upon this earth after the cleansing of 2 Peter 3:10.

But flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God/Heaven.

 

[Dave L]

lol , Jesus said his kingdom is not of this world- only for that time that he came to die for His creation - then later on he would be King of this world
you a bit mixed up

Only 2 worlds (ages) mentioned in Scripture. Jesus said his kingdom (millennium) is not of this word (age) and flesh and blood cannot inherit the world (age) to come. = No Physical millennium.

 

[Dave L]

When my Lord Jesus said His kingdom is not of 'this world', that is exactly right. His Kingdom is of the future world to come, and it will be a physical kingdom established on this earth, as written in God's Old Testament prophets, and in the New Testament.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV

Rev 11:15
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever.
KJV

2 Tim 4:1
4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, Who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom;
KJV

Just a few Scriptures of many that show a literal kingdom yet to come under Jesus Christ.

Jesus proved the kingdom was here in the first century. “But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
And the resurrection on the last day is the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ of all time). Physical kingdom after the resurrection?

“Now this is what I am saying, brothers and sisters: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I will tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a moment, in the blinking of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. Now when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will happen, “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”” (1 Corinthians 15:50–54)

 

[Dave L]

Nothing was said about what people do , you totally missed the point . Did God ever put himself in position where he would suffer torture for the sake of the animal kingdom so they could be saved , or the angels so they could be saved ? No He did no such thing - but He did do it for mankind that he created in the image of Himself - it was not just another thing to create , not just some amusement for Himself cause he was bored - He created man for the purpose of having a family to himself , to share Himself with , to love and be loved by His creation that knows Him personally and has an intimate relationship with Him , not just another creation

Can you show scripture pertaining to your claim "He created man for the purpose of having a family to himself , to share Himself with , to love and be loved by His creation that knows Him personally and has an intimate relationship with Him , not just another creation"?