Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

You do have scripture that says that limitation is upon God
Gods ways are not our ways , when people insist to make our ways Gods ways they will always be wrong - just as all the people who think they have calculated the day when Jesus returns or the rapture are always wrong and always will be until Jesus returns
You proclaiming God thinks in aeons reveals your close association to Gnosticism

If you want to make a simple statement into something it is not, I can't change that. But try taking Peter at face value once and see if it doesn't make more sense.

 

[seventysevens]

If you want to make a simple statement into something it is not, I can't change that. But try taking Peter at face value once and see if it doesn't make more sense.

well what you have stated is just the opposite -

Peter made it clear a day is as a thousand years - he was speaking directly of how he views how to asses the time frame of God ,

IF he meant a long time he would have said it that way - being simple that would have been simple

 

[Dave L]

well what you have stated is just the opposite -

Peter made it clear a day is as a thousand years - he was speaking directly of how he views how to asses the time frame of God ,

IF he meant a long time he would have said it that way - being simple that would have been simple

Doesn't it make more sense to think Peter is addressing those who think the Lord is delaying the end of the world by saying 1000 years is like a year to God, even though some count slackness?

Is it good to build far reaching conjectures on such a vague statement as this?

 

[συνείδησις]

I just feel some of you are not thinking some of these things through very well. Or maybe it's me that isn't? Yet I'm the one being logical here though, or it at least it seems so.

Think about it. GOD never wanted an earthly throne. It is something he permitted to accommodate Israel's ungodliness. What sense does it make for GOD to keep something around that he didn't want in the first place?

 

[seventysevens]

Doesn't it make more sense to think Peter is addressing those who think the Lord is delaying the end of the world by saying 1000 years is like a year to God, even though some count slackness?

Is it good to build far reaching conjectures on such a vague statement as this?

While it not be impossible it be highly unlikely when he could have said Gods time is not our time and he will not be slack in his timing , there is no reason to bring into it a numerical number of years when he could have said ' a long time in Gods days compared to mans days ' as that would have prevented any confusion about what he actually meant - most people try to keep it simple and there is no reason to use terms that would cause confusion - and this 1000 years as caused some to be confused because they simply do not want to accept it as it is written

 

[seventysevens]

Think about it. GOD never wanted an earthly throne. It is something he permitted to accommodate Israel's ungodliness. What sense does it make for GOD to keep something around that he didn't want in the first place?

What ? Jesus will have a throne on earth , - don't forget that the reason God is not walking with us today is because of sin - God cannot being around sin without it being destroyed , we will not be able to co-exist with God until we receive the glorified incorruptible body - but when we do receive it we will walk face to face with God , just like Adam could before the fall

 

[Dave L]

Think about it. GOD never wanted an earthly throne. It is something he permitted to accommodate Israel's ungodliness. What sense does it make for GOD to keep something around that he didn't want in the first place?

All of the Old Testament symbolized what is taking place now and in eternity. David's Throne as God's Throne teaches the spiritually minded the basics of the New Covenant and its heavenly and earthly realms. Hebrews and Colossians explores this as types and shadows. Colossians 2:17; Hebrews 11:39–40

 

[ebedmelech]

I think Hebrews 1 settles who's on the throne, and CLEARLY IT IS JESUS. Our Lord will return the reign to the Father after He executes judgment as stated in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28.

Christ is fulfillment of God's promise to David in 2 Samuel 7:8-17!!! Matthew affirms it in Matthew 1:1:
The record of the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham:

In Luke 18:35-43, blind Bartimaeus clearly understood and believed that.

David's throne is synonymous with the throne of God which He transferred to Jesus upon His resurrection.

 

[seventysevens]

seems you forget why GOD gave man the earth

 

[Dave L]

While it not be impossible it be highly unlikely when he could have said Gods time is not our time and he will not be slack in his timing , there is no reason to bring into it a numerical number of years when he could have said ' a long time in Gods days compared to mans days ' as that would have prevented any confusion about what he actually meant - most people try to keep it simple and there is no reason to use terms that would cause confusion - and this 1000 years as caused some to be confused because they simply do not want to accept it as it is written

Let's let Peter speak for himself and try to understand he is not giving us a Rorschach test.

seems you forget why GOD gave man the earth

Please tell why....

 

[συνείδησις]

What ? Jesus will have a throne on earth , - don't forget that the reason God is not walking with us today is because of sin - God cannot being around sin without it being destroyed , we will not be able to co-exist with God until we receive the glorified incorruptible body - but when we do receive it we will walk face to face with God , just like Adam could before the fall

Sure I know that there will be an earthly throne. My point was what is the point of looking for another throne of David (that GOD didn't want in the first place) while ignoring the son of David sitting on a throne in heaven ruling the world from it. It's like some people think it's not the throne of David because it's not on earth.

 

[seventysevens]

Let's let Peter speak for himself and try to understand he is not giving us a Rorschach test.

You don't accept what Peter says outright since you choose to say he said something without acknowledging all that he said - unless it fits your preference

Please tell why....

You really don't know why ?
Do you understand why God created man then gave man the choice to sin and offer His forgiveness - something he did not offer to the angels ?

 

[Dave L]

You don't accept what Peter says outright since you choose to say he said something without acknowledging all that he said - unless it fits your preference
You really don't know why ?
Do you understand why God created man then gave man the choice to sin and offer His forgiveness - something he did not offer to the angels ?

Let's let Peter speak for himself. And not make more out of it than what is written.

Please share your take on why God created us.

 

[seventysevens]

Sure I know that there will be an earthly throne. My point was what is the point of looking for another throne of David (that GOD didn't want in the first place) while ignoring the son of David sitting on a throne in heaven ruling the world from it. It's like some people think it's not the throne of David because it's not on earth.

I don't recall the earthly throne for Jesus being called throne of David, maybe it was and maybe it wasn't - but it will be a throne that Jesus sits while on earth - but that doesn't mean he can't go where ever he pleases - nothing keeps him from going anywhere or doing anything he chooses to do - some people think that just because Jesus will have an earthly throne that he would only reign over earth - He is still God and will reign over all universes he created - Yea He is on the throne now in heaven but nothing will restrict Him from having throne on earth - that would be like telling someone that owns estates all over the world they have to stay in only one of them
I don't recall God saying he did not want a throne on earth - but if he had one before we receive our glorified incorruptible bodies , humans would perish just by God being on earth because of the sin that is within humans

 

[DavidPT]

Sure I know that there will be an earthly throne. My point was what is the point of looking for another throne of David (that GOD didn't want in the first place) while ignoring the son of David sitting on a throne in heaven ruling the world from it. It's like some people think it's not the throne of David because it's not on earth.

That wouldn't be the reason why I take issue with it though. Jesus is currently set down, not in His own throne, but in His Father's throne. His Father's throne is not the throne of David. But if it is, prove it via other Scriptures.

 

[ebedmelech]

Peter's reference is to Psalms 90:4:
4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

This is a comparison of time IN GOD'S sight, which tells us Peter's message here is not a literal 1000 years.

Take a look at Deuteronomy 7:9:
9 Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

There "a thousandth generation" represents eternity.

Again in Psalm 50:10:
10 “For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills.

In this verse "a thousand hills" means all hills

This is how God uses 1000 to represent eternity, or an undetermined number.

This is how John is using Christ reign of a thousand years to represent and undetermined amount of time in which Christ will reign, and that period started after His resurrection.

John uses it differently when it comes to the 144,000 of Revelation 7:4-8, where he sees 12,000 from the tribes of Israel. To see who they are one has to see the pattern visions to John in this prophecy. Throughout Revelation John will hear something, and then he will look at something to describe what that which he saw means.

Revelation 7:9 tells tells us who the 144,00 is:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

So the 144,000 are the Israel of God, they are not fleshly Israel, but spiritual Israel. They have circumcised hearts and are the TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD as well as THE TEMPLE OF GOD built on the apostles and prophets, with our Lord Jesus as the cornerstone!!!

 

[seventysevens]

Let's let Peter speak for himself. And not make more out of it than what is written.

Please share your take on why God created us.

I do let Peter speak for himself and it was you that made more out of it that is written .
God created a family to spend eternity with , which is why He created us in His image - to be likened unto Him , which is why is took on the sins of the world , all people that they may spend eternity with him , and he gave us the planet to reside on

 

[Dave L]

I do let Peter speak for himself and it was you that made more out of it that is written .
God created a family to spend eternity with , which is why He created us in His image - to be likened unto Him , which is why is took on the sins of the world , all people that they may spend eternity with him , and he gave us the planet to reside on

I believe God created all for his good pleasure and for his glory.

 

[seventysevens]

Peter's reference is to Psalms 90:4:
4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.

This is a comparison of time IN GOD'S sight, which tells us Peter's message here is not a literal 1000 years.

Take a look at Deuteronomy 7:9:
9 Know therefore that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

There "a thousandth generation" represents eternity.

Again in Psalm 50:10:
10 “For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills.

In this verse "a thousand hills" means all hills

This is how God uses 1000 to represent eternity, or an undetermined number.

This is how John is using Christ reign of a thousand years to represent and undetermined amount of time in which Christ will reign, and that period started after His resurrection.

John uses it differently when it comes to the 144,000 of Revelation 7:4-8, where he sees 12,000 from the tribes of Israel.

To see who they are one has to see the pattern visions to John in this prophecy. Throughout Revelation John will hear something, and the he will look at something to describe what that which he saw means.

Revelation 7:9 tells tells us who the 144,00 is:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

So the 144,000 are the Israel of God, they are not fleshly Israel, but spiritual Israel. They have circumcised hearts and are the TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD as well as THE TEMPLE OF GOD built on the apostles and prophets, with our Lord Jesus as the cornerstone!!!

More private interpretations

It really doesn't matter if it is 1000 years or 100000 years - point is there are matters that must be fulfilled before the new earth and new heaven come , amils interpretation is like saying the first day of high school is the day they graduate without actually having to go to school for the duration
When Jesus returns he does not destroy the earth until after all that scripture say will be done is done - and that is why amil always look into the past and squeeze the square peg into the round hole to force things that will be done as if they were
when they are not yet

 

[seventysevens]

I believe God created all for his good pleasure and for his glory.

Is that the only reason that you would have children - ?