Escaping the Great Tribulation?

[Linet Kihonge]

I think you are pretty hell-bent that you're not going to go through tribulation? I never said, the LORD will judge people for being scared of GT but our testimonies will be based on if all shall stand the test of that TIME. I think rapture is the Comfort zone of believers, hate to say this, but it ain't gonna happen until the 1st resurrection otherwise, you contradict 1 Thessalonians 4. So if you want to contradict yourselves, go ahead, BUT leave the scriptures CLEAN! I have never read the verses with hopes of finding what I want but with hopes of getting what the LORD SAYS! Now, are you going to tell everyone that they won't undergo suffering because there's something like rapture! What will happen if all the tribulation pass and they are still there??? I would rather assume the worst and get the Good that expect heaven only to get "HELL"

 

[Straightshot]

The two witnesses of Revelation will be mortals sent by the Lord something like the 144000 apostles of Israel who will take the gospel of His kingdom first to Israel, and then to the nations of the Gentiles during the tribulation

The Lord's two prophets will appear in Jerusalem and these will stand in the face of Satan's beast in the human little horn of Daniel's visions .... this king of the northern Middle East invade and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount during the last 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel [I believe that this one will be a Muslim Caliph whom some call the "antichrist"]

The two will even bring down judgments upon the beast and his kingdom which will lead to his own destruction .... but just before he will be allowed to kill the two prophets .... then the Lord will counter and resurrect them for all the world to see as a witness to His authenticity just at then end of the 1260 says

 

[miknik5]

I think you are pretty hell-bent that you're not going to go through tribulation? I never said, the LORD will judge people for being scared of GT but our testimonies will be based on if all shall stand the test of that TIME. I think rapture is the Comfort zone of believers, hate to say this, but it ain't gonna happen until the 1st resurrection otherwise, you contradict 1 Thessalonians 4. So if you want to contradict yourselves, go ahead, BUT leave the scriptures CLEAN! I have never read the verses with hopes of finding what I want but with hopes of getting what the LORD SAYS! Now, are you going to tell everyone that they won't undergo suffering because there's something like rapture! What will happen if all the tribulation pass and they are still there??? I would rather assume the worst and get the Good that expect heaven only to get "HELL"

Yes. Our Hope should be in Him and anyone whose Hope is in Him is receiving the goal of their faith


Even salvation.
That I agree with
Even those who believe in His Name

Let not your heart be troubled
Ye believe in God...believe also in Me


In this world you will have trouble but take heart for I have overcome the world

And who is it who has overcome the world?

The answer is found in 1 John 5

Our work is to remain on Him and not to "go out" from Him

Whatever is lovely think on these things and the peace of God which surpasses all understanding. Shall guard our hearts and minds on Christ Jesus

 

[miknik5]

The two witnesses of Revelation will be mortals sent by the Lord something like the 144000 apostles of Israel who will take the gospel of His kingdom first to Israel, and then to the nations of the Gentiles during the tribulation

The Lord's two prophets will appear in Jerusalem and these will stand in the face of Satan's beast in the human little horn of Daniel's visions .... this king of the northern Middle East invade and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount during the last 1260 days of the 70th week decreed for Israel [I believe that this one will be a Muslim Caliph whom some call the "antichrist"]

The two will even bring down judgments upon the beast and his kingdom which will lead to his own destruction .... but just before he will be allowed to kill the two prophets .... then the Lord will counter and resurrect them for all the world to see as a witness to His authenticity just at then end of the 1260 says

No I do not agree.l

 

[Straightshot]

"I think rapture is the Comfort zone of believers, hate to say this, but it ain't gonna happen until the 1st resurrection otherwise, you contradict"


One last comment about the subject of this thread and your view .... I believe that you are dead wrong .... or wrong dead .... I you know what I mean

I may come back on the subject later for others if they have questions

 

[Straightshot]

"No I do not agree.l"

Good for you

 

[Linet Kihonge]

If I was your doc. I would say, "Hey, I won't lie to you that the Journey ahead will be easy or there won't be harsh times, there will hard times and I would rather you know the truth than go through a lot and not know why?" The LORD is your Doctor, He doesn't say something and then mean the other,

Let's read Daniel 7

[‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. ‘He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.]

The saints will be given to the fourth kingdom and they shall be weared down for 3 and half years.

But even though!

[The kingdom, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the holy ones of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.'"]

These saints will be ordinary Christians who will have to face GT!

 

[miknik5]

If I was your doc. I would say, "Hey, I won't lie to you that the Journey ahead will be easy or there won't be harsh times, there will hard times and I would rather you know the truth than go through a lot and not know why?" The LORD is your Doctor, He doesn't say something and then mean the other,

Let's read Daniel 7

[‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. ‘He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.]

The saints will be given to the fourth kingdom and they shall be weared down for 3 and half years.

But even though!

[The kingdom, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the holy ones of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.'"]

These saints will be ordinary Christians who will have to face GT!

Three and one half years.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

On the other hand, I wish we comforted ourselves that the LORD who promised that he would never leave us nor forsake us will be with us. We are the "scum" to this world Yet we are ever MORE precious than Gold to the one who gave us LIFE. We mean the WORLD to the Great I AM especially if we anchored our hopes and everything else in him. The world may deem us "useless" but the LORD is bigger than all that. What's a good name if it doesn't please our LORD of lords and Master of All things. What's a good reputation if it isn't consistent with his demands? Who are we? We are the Crowns of the Most High King and we can't believe that the WORLD will be tamer because we BELIEVE in what we do, so we need to take on the full armor, for world was never ours but ALWAYS the City of Gold, jasper, precious jewels and purest emeralds!

 

[Douggg]

If I was your doc. I would say, "Hey, I won't lie to you that the Journey ahead will be easy or there won't be harsh times, there will hard times and I would rather you know the truth than go through a lot and not know why?" The LORD is your Doctor, He doesn't say something and then mean the other,

Let's read Daniel 7

[‘The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it. As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings. ‘He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.]

The saints will be given to the fourth kingdom and they shall be weared down for 3 and half years.

But even though!

[The kingdom, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the holy ones of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him.'"]

These saints will be ordinary Christians who will have to face GT!

But that passage doesn't prove that the Rapture doesn't happen before that time of persecution begins.

Yes, the saints are Christians. But when did they become Christians? The Jewish people who now reject Jesus, and will embrace the little horn as their messiah. When he turns on them, they will realize their mistake and embrace Jesus. The two witnesses will be testifying to them during the first 1260 days of the 7 years, against their perceived messiah.

In Revelation 12, the woman is identified as Israel. Some of the Jews will flee into the mountians when the Abomination of Desolation is setup to be worshipped, shortly before Satan is cast down to earth for the time, times, and half times in Revelation 12:14. The ones who don't make it to the mountains in time will be cutoff, and persecuted for the time, times, and half times (of Revelation 12:14 and Daniel 7:25), which are the remanent of the woman (Israel) in Revelation 12:17, who....

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Of course there will be non-Jews who become Christians - after the rapture - as well. So that although there will be Christians persecuted during that time, it is not proof that the Rapture doesn't precede the day of the Lord. Not necessarily pre-70th week, but pre-abomination of desolation, which sets off the great tribulation.

 

[Riberra]

So that although there will be Christians persecuted during that time, it is not proof that the Rapture doesn't precede the day of the Lord. Not necessarily pre-70th week, but pre-abomination of desolation, which sets off the great tribulation.

Paul tell us that our gathering unto Jesus will not be 'pre-abomination of desolation',the church will be there when the abomination of desolation will be set up.

2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Straightshot]

The above scriptures must be rendered correctly

The false teaching of the day was that the day of the Lord had already come and that the tribulation was in process

Paul says no to this false teaching and tells of the things that must be a part of the coming tribulation were not present like the mass falling away and the appearance of Satan's man of lawlessness

The early Thessalonians had been taught that they would be called to immortality by the Lord before the tribulation and related would come [1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 5:1-9]

The gathering that these early believers thought that they had missed because of the false teaching is in fact His call for their immortality that some refer to as the "rapture" [2 Thessalonians 2:1]

Paul sets them straight .... that they had not missed the Lord's call because the tribulation was not yet present but to come

.... and He would tell the same today

The coming tribulation is still pending as we speak .... and just before, He will call His true ecclesa of both the dead in Christ and those living at the time to immortality

 

[Riberra]

The above scriptures must be rendered correctly

The false teaching of the day was that the day of the Lord had already come and that the tribulation was in process

Wrong ,Paul tell us in verse 2 that the false teaching was that the day of the Lord was AT HAND. ie -imminent-
2 Thessalonians 2
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

 

[Charlie24]

Paul tell us that our gathering unto Jesus will not be 'pre-abomination of desolation',the church will be there when the abomination of desolation will be set up.

2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The church will not be here when the anti-christ sits in the temple showing himself that he is God.

Paul said there will be a "falling away" before the anti-christ is revealed.

That "falling away" is a "he." The falling away into apostasy is not a"he." It's a person, and this person is a restrainer of wickedness and sin. When this restrainer is taken out of the way (the falling away) vs. 8 says, and then shall the anti-christ be revealed.

The person of the Holy Spirit is the only power on earth that can hold back the power of satan.

When the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way for the anti-christ to run wild, He takes the true church with Him. This is the pre-trib rapture.

If you notice John 14:16-17, Jesus made a promise to all believers.
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

The Holy Spirit will be with the believer forever. He's not going to leave us.

The church will not be here for the wrath of God my friends. What may come to pass for believers before the rapture is another story.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

RB not to worry, pre-tribulationists seem to be stuck in Sand castles!
1 Thessalonians 4

NIV [According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.]

NLT [We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.]

ESV [For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.]

BSB [By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.]

BLB [For this we declare to you in the word of the Lord, that we the living, remaining unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those having fallen asleep,]

NET [For we tell you this by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not go ahead of those who have fallen asleep.]

So where will you be going and there's no scripture that says, you will go ahead of those who've fallen asleep? Rapture came as a result of being spooked by the changing times and barely, scriptural in any way. It's a fallacy and a dream in wonderland though no one will judge you for keeping such wishes but SNAP OUT OF IT!

 

[Charlie24]

RB not to worry, pre-tribulationists seem to be stuck in Sand castles!
1 Thessalonians 4

NIV [According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.]

NLT [We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.]

ESV [For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.]

BSB [By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.]

BLB [For this we declare to you in the word of the Lord, that we the living, remaining unto the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those having fallen asleep,]

NET [For we tell you this by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not go ahead of those who have fallen asleep.]

So where will you be going and there's no scripture that says, you will go ahead of those who've fallen asleep? Rapture came as a result of being spooked by the changing times and barely, scriptural in any way. It's a fallacy and a dream in wonderland though no one will judge you for keeping such wishes but SNAP OUT OF IT!

Where will we go? Do you not understand what Paul said?

1Thessalonians 4:15-18

It's pretty clear you are the one who needs to "snap out of it."

 

[Riberra]

The church will not be here when the anti-christ sits in the temple showing himself that he is God.

Paul said there will be a "falling away" before the anti-christ is revealed.

That "falling away" is a "he." The falling away into apostasy is not a"he." It's a person, and this person is a restrainer of wickedness and sin. When this restrainer is taken out of the way (the falling away) vs. 8 says, and then shall the anti-christ be revealed.

The falling away means falling away from the faith.ie Apostasy.
There will be a falling away from the faith among the Christians FIRST ,AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The restrainer will let the man of sin be revealed because of the falling away from the Faith in the Church.

Do you have any idea why there will be a falling away from the faith among the Christians who believed that they will be rapture before the tribulation ?
2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(of our gathering unto Jesus at His Coming -verse 1-) shall not come, except there come a falling away FIRST, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Revelation 14
[A second angel followed and said, “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’a which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”

A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.]

The GT starts at 6, Please, the angels wouldn't have asked Christians of patient endurance, if they had been RAPTURED! As I say, let's keep Hope alive that despite what lies ahead He will be with us and His Holy Spirit will give us much Joy and grace till it's done. By the way, the Holy Spirit will still be with believers, may be the times will be too harsh for normal endurance but not too much for the One who called us to be of his Kind!!!

 

[Linet Kihonge]

Yes, and I'm worried because if the Epistles indicated that the GT will still be there despite the existence of Christians, the first people to fall to this wickedness or deceptive works of miracles would be "raptured Church"

 

[Linet Kihonge]

We keep feeling sorry for the last book as if it was the meanest thing that would happen to believer and the LORD promised you, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" it may look like it but I KNOW with 100% assurance that He won't leave us to misery or wallow in harshness of the times. He will keep his fire burning so hard that even the persecutions will seem like a thing of the past