Escaping the Great Tribulation?

[Psalm3704]

Jesus will bring the souls of the believers which are in Heaven with Him to be resurrected on the Earth where their body is.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Show us where it say Jesus will bring souls with Him in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

If the marriage supper is in Heaven ,can you explain how the Christians who will still be alive on the Earth will participate ?

Revelation 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

They don't. No such thing as a post-trib rapture. True post-tribbers get left behind and forfeit all rewards.













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[Riberra]

Show us where it say Jesus will bring souls with Him in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

They don't. No such thing as a post-trib rapture. True post-tribbers get left behind and forfeit all rewards.

There is no such thing as a rapture to Heaven before the tribulation.
The text say caught up together to meet the Lord IN THE AIR unto HIS COMING.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


There is a gathering of the elect by the angels mentioned at the Coming of Jesus in
Matthew 24:29-31

 

[Psalm3704]

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Looks like Riberra believes in soul sleep.

There is no such thing as a rapture to Heaven before the tribulation.
The text say caught up together to meet the Lord IN THE AIR unto HIS COMING.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

And His coming is not after the tribulation either.

Plus you're boring as hell and probably setting yourself up for the occasion when Christ returns.







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[Riberra]

Looks like Riberra believes in soul sleep.

The SOUL of the believers when their bodies die return to GOD in HEAVEN.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again,even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

And His coming is not after the tribulation either.

Jesus' Words reported by Matthew:
Matthew 24:29-31

Plus you're boring as hell and probably setting yourself up for the occasion when Christ returns.

You are setting yourself for the prophesied great apostasy when the real stuff will begin and that you will realize that no pre-trib nor mid -tribulation rapture will happen.You will be so discouraged and angry against God that you will fall away from the faith,,,,/EXACTLY what Satan who have invented the pre-tribulation rapture DECEPTION want./

 

[Psalm3704]

The SOUL of the believers when their bodies die return to GOD in HEAVEN.

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Riberra believes in soul sleep.

Jesus' Words reported by Matthew:
Matthew 24:29-31

No, you're the one totally wrong. Matthew 24:29-31 is describing Jesus already on earth after He defeated the a/c and ended the tribulation. Read it carefully! In Matthew 24:29-31, it said He comes on many clouds.

Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In Luke 21:25-28 is when Jesus is coming to earth, during the tribulation at the 6th vial on a cloud to Armageddon. This is not after the tribulation.

Luke 21:25-28 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.”

Jesus is coming to destroy the a/c with the brightness of His coming. How will He do that with any clouds covering Him?

Look at verse 26, it said "men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken." This means the tribulation is not over and the worst part of the tribulation is yet to come.

Look at verse 28, it said "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.” Your redemption draws near means the tribulation is not over but soon.

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It's also confirmed in Revelation 19:11-21 and Isaiah 26:19 - 27:1 when Jesus leaves heaven coming to earth, He goes straight to Armageddon to defeat the a/c and end the war. This is not after the tribulation.

Isaiah 26:19 - 27:1New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Your dead shall live;
Together with my dead body they shall arise.
Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust;
For your dew is like the dew of herbs,
And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.

21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her blood,
And will no more cover her slain.

1 In that day the Lord with His severe sword, great and strong,
Will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent,
Leviathan that twisted serpent;
And He will slay the reptile that is in the sea.


Revelation 19 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 After these things I heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servantsshed by her.” 3 Again they said, “Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!” 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, “Amen! Alleluia!” 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, “Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!”

6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

9 Then he said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!’” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.” 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

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When Jesus leaves heaven coming to earth, He doesn't circle the globe for a cameo appearance for everyone to see Him. He immediately descends down to the Valley of Megiddo where Armageddon will be fought. The rest of the world cannot see Him coming yet. If you're living on the other side of the world, you're not gonna see Him descend upon Armageddon. Only those in the Middle east will see Him coming before the end of the tribulation. That's what Luke 21:25-28 is telling us when He comes on "a" cloud heading to Armageddon.

After the a/c is defeated is when He'll be coming on many clouds to extinguish all the firestorms from the nuclear war in the Middle East. The kind that produces 100 pound hails: the 7th vial.

Now is when the tribulation as He is coming on many clouds.

Hosea 6:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
3 Let us know,
Let us pursue the knowledge of the Lord.
His going forth is established as the morning;
He will come to us like the rain,
Like the latter and former rain to the earth.


Matthew 24:29-31 New King James Version (NKJV)
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

________________________________________

So this nonsense about a post-trib rapture where Jesus descends from heaven and raptures the church after the tribulation just falls apart at the seam as Jesus doesn't come to earth after the tribulation. He comes near the end of the tribulation and ends the war.

Riberra, who do you think defeats the a/c and ends the war if Jesus comes after the tribulation? There be no one left on earth (no flesh saved: Matthew 24:22) if Jesus doesn't come before the end.

________________________________________

By the way Riberra. Do you see a rapture in Revelation 19 when Jesus leaves heaven coming to earth?

You won't find a rapture there because John told us the church is already in heaven celebrating the marriage supper of the lamb in Revelation 19:9.

So was John being complacent or lazy and forgot to mention a rapture or a resurrection? No he did not, John was thorough in detail. He mentioned a resurrection of the dead in-Christ that died during the tribulation in Revelation 20:4.

Bottom line. No post-trib rapture during the second coming.

You are setting yourself for the prophesied great apostasy when the real stuff will begin and that you will realize that no pre-trib nor mid -tribulation rapture will happen.You will be so discouraged and angry against God that you will fall away from the faith,,,,exactly what Satan who have invented the pre-tribulation rapture DECEPTION/ want.

I won't be here during the tribulation. But you will since you're holding onto your post-trib rapture. Post-tribbers get to experience the great apostasy, not us. We get to see Jesus Christ. We get to be in heaven playing with our rewards in our heavenly mansion. You get to see the anti-christ. Who knows, you might even get beheaded for being post-trib.









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[miknik5]

You don't seem to see that the First (massive) resurrection of the believers will happen at the same time that the resurrection of the believers who will be beheaded during the tribulation.
Revelation 20:4-6

Jesus is the firstfruits ;afterward those who are in Christ AT HIS COMING.You have invented a pre-trubulation resurrection of the dead believers who is not mentioned in the Bible.
1 Corinthians 15
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

You missed a lot if the story before revelation 20


Please go back to right before the false Christ and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire and proceed from there

 

[Straightshot]

1 Thessalonians
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


This statement simple tells that the dead in Christ will not be forgotten, but will be made immortal just as those living at the time

Both will be called and made immortal together .... the living will not have time to die physically

The spirits of the dead in Christ will be awakened and the living at the time will be transformed in a moment .... in the twinkling of an eye

The purpose is to reassure the living that the dead in Christ will not be forgotten

In addition there are none of the spirits of the dead in Christ existing as immortals at this time and never have been .... they are all awaiting the Lord's call

The Lord told the thief on the cross that He would be immortal on the day that he died

.... and yet no man has gone to "heaven" except the one that has come down from heaven

How could this be?

It is because the dead know nothing .... are not conscious and aware of time passing

So to the thief his next conscious awareness will be this [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

Therefore, the Lord obviously understood this truth and and told the thief that "today" you will be made immortal .... this is the way that it will seem to the thief

There are none of the Lord's true ecclesia in "heaven" yet and never have been as some false man made religions teach

And this experience will occur for the dead in Christ and those living at the time just before the Lord's coming judgment [Revelation 3:10]

The proof of this pre-tribulation experience is seen as the coming tribulation unfolds on the earth in Revelation's presentation [4:4; 5:1-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 19:1-9; 19:14]

There will be no believers left upon the earth at the onset of the tribulation

The first fruits saved will be the 144000 of Israel [Revelation 7:1-8; 14:1-7], and these will witness to an unbelieving world of which some will be saved .... the martyrs [Revelation 6:9-11; 13:7; 14:13] and those mortals who will be found believing after the days of the tribulation [Matthew 24:29-31 of Israel], [Matthew 25:31-46 of the Gentile nations]

Those martyred will have to wait for their resurrection at the end of the tribulation

The believing survivors will be gathered and will enter and populate the Lord's millennial kingdom upon the earth as mortals [this gathering is not a resurrection of anyone]

 

[miknik5]

1 Thessalonians
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.


This statement simple tells that the dead in Christ will not be forgotten, but will be made immortal just as those living at the time

Both will be called and made immortal together .... the living will not have time to die physically

The spirits of the dead in Christ will be awakened and the living at the time will be transformed in a moment .... in the twinkling of an eye

The purpose is to reassure the living that the dead in Christ will not be forgotten

In addition there are none of the spirits of the dead in Christ existing as immortals at this time and never have been .... they are all awaiting the Lord's call

The Lord told the thief on the cross that He would be immortal on the day that he died

.... and yet no man has gone to "heaven" except the one that has come down from heaven

How could this be?

It is because the dead know nothing .... are not conscious and aware of time passing

So to the thief his next conscious awareness will be this [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18]

Therefore, the Lord obviously understood this truth and and told the thief that "today" you will be made immortal .... this is the way that it will seem to the thief

There are none of the Lord's true ecclesia in "heaven" yet and never have been as some false man made religions teach

Your last paragraph as I scrolled through the many words popped out at me

You're wrong. In fact. Where oh where do you think Paul is now if absent from the body is present with the Lord. And the thief on the cross, do you think he also may have a white garment since he believed and is also present with the Lord

They may be waiting for glorified resurrected bodies but their soul and their spirit are with the Lord

 

[miknik5]

You shall be with ME in Paradise. And of course flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God

Mortality has to be swallowed up in immortality. Which is why there are on the invisible and spiritual beings in heaven White Garments signifying Jesus' covering

But Jesus is One and before the throne there are many

 

[miknik5]

if we could take a tally and a role call of those before the throne in white Garments who are waiting, I am sure that Paul and that thief are present.
And of course David would be there since he is the one who prophecied the very thing:
That God would not allow His Holy One to see decay nor will He abandon our souls to the grave

 

[Straightshot]

"You're wrong. In fact. Where oh where do you think Paul is now"


He is waiting for the Lord's call to immortalize him .... just like any man

Paul's statement about being absent from the body is the hope of any man which is coming

A man's spirit is returned to His Maker at his physical death for the keeping .... and he awaits for the Lord's calling here [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18] .... at His coming [1 Corinthians 15:20-23]

There are no immortal humans in "heaven" at this time .... and never have been .... only the Lord has demonstrated His own position

 

[miknik5]

"You're wrong. In fact. Where oh where do you think Paul is now"


He is waiting for the Lord's call to immortalize him .... just like any man

Paul's statement about being absent from the body is the hope of any man which is coming

A man's spirit is returned to His Maker at his physical death for the keeping .... and he awaits for the Lord's calling here [1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18] .... at His coming [1 Corinthians 15:20-23]

There are no immortal humans in "heaven" at this time .... and never have been .... only the Lord has demonstrated His own position

You're looking at the flesh (that is the only part of the believer that is not in heaven) which hasn't been changed yet


but the souls under the altar can convey feelings and are heard and understood. And that could only be because of our spirits which are the inner inclinations of the man's heart and mind. These souls do not have flesh. They do not have mouths. But they are heard and understood and they given a white garment (just as all those depicted around the altar have white garments which signify the clean linens of all the saints who held to the testimony of Jesus) and are told to wait because during the time before the false Christ and false prophet are thrown in the lake of fire many just like themselves will be killed

Those in white garments are all those who have a part in the first resurrection

The first resurrection bring that they have already crossed from death to life and are members of His Body

These will reign with him during the 1000 year reign

After this time then all the dead (that is those who did not know h who did not hear his voice before their physical deaths who had no part in the first resuerection( will be raised and judged

ALL the dead who died outside the Lord...as unbelievers

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Hi all. I don't think I've yet seen an explanation for Jesus' comments where he says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days will they see the sign of the son of man in heaven etc...

This comes from Matthew 24. The "tribulation of those days" is quantified by Jesus as being something the world has never seen nor will see again, meaning he's talking about a specific period of time, which we would normally call "THE Great Tribulation", though I have heard people disagree about what constitutes the great tribulation, whether there is a difference between tribulation and wrath etc.

But mainly I'd like people to comment on what he means by "after the tribulation of those days will they see the sign of the son of man in heaven etc" because it sounds to me like he's describing his return for the saints who have just passed through the Great Tribulation. He even talks about his angels being sent out to gather his elect at the sound of a trumpet (i.e the last trumpet of the tribulation?).

What's also interesting is that Paul mentions a trumpet, too, in connection with the return of Jesus, except he specifies that it is the LAST trumpet at which Jesus returns. The only series of trumpets which is relevant to end time prophecy (which I know of) are the 7 trumpets of the tribulation, mentioned in the Revelation.

If Jesus returns and we are all caught up and change in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet then that necessarily means we will have needed to pass through the other 6 trumpets, first.

I look forward to hearing what others think.

 

[miknik5]

Hi all. I don't think I've yet seen an explanation for Jesus' comments where he says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days will they see the sign of the son of man in heaven etc...

This comes from Matthew 24. The "tribulation of those days" is quantified by Jesus as being something the world has never seen nor will see again, meaning he's talking about a specific period of time, which we would normally call "THE Great Tribulation", though I have heard people disagree about what constitutes the great tribulation, whether there is a difference between tribulation and wrath etc.

But mainly I'd like people to comment on what he means by "after the tribulation of those days will they see the sign of the son of man in heaven etc" because it sounds to me like he's describing his return for the saints who have just passed through the Great Tribulation. He even talks about his angels being sent out to gather his elect at the sound of a trumpet (i.e the last trumpet of the tribulation?).

What's also interesting is that Paul mentions a trumpet, too, in connection with the return of Jesus, except he specifies that it is the LAST trumpet at which Jesus returns. The only series of trumpets which is relevant to end time prophecy (which I know of) are the 7 trumpets of the tribulation, mentioned in the Revelation.

If Jesus returns and we are all caught up and change in the twinkling of an eye at the last trumpet then that necessarily means we will have needed to pass through the other 6 trumpets, first.

I look forward to hearing what others think.

Lol. No problem here
Thanks for reminding us of that "trumpet"

 

[Charlie24]

The trumpet that Paul speaks of in 1Thes. 4 is not the 7th trumpet of Rev.

John had not written the Revelation of Jesus Christ at this time and the Thes. church would have no knowledge of it. Paul knew through his own revelation from Christ (which he writes about) what would happen in the last days, but not one time did he tell the church they would suffer this wrath. In fact, he told them "for we are not appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1Thes. 5:9

Paul was speaking to the church of what would befall them. The trumpet he speaks of is the closing of the church age when the true church is taken out of the way.

 

[Riberra]

The trumpet that Paul speaks of in 1Thes. 4 is not the 7th trumpet of Rev.

You are right Paul is not talking about the 7 th trumpet of Revelation .It is the trumpet mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 that will sound unto the Glorious Coming of Jesus at the moment that Jesus will send His angels to gather His elect.
Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Ronald]

The "woman clothed with the sun and the moon at her feet" in Rev. 12 is symbolically Israel and the child is Jesus. However, literally, it is also a sign in the heavens. Virgo is a constellation that will appear clothed in the sun with moon at her feet with 12 stars around her head on Sept. 23, 2017. This exact constellation happened when Jesus was born as well, which was figured to be Sept. 11, 3 B.C.E.

Hi all. My friends and I just released a video. It takes a post-tribulation positoin and it's a little under 5 minutes in length, so not too long. I look forward to hearing what others think.

Your interpretation is wrong. The Woman in Rev. 12 is symbolic for Israel and the child, Jesus. It is the Jews who will get saved. Scripture explains it clearing when it describes 144,000 male virgins from the 12 tribes of Israel. As many virgin women will be saved. These are the ones along with a remnant (1/3) of the Jews in Israel who will be saved and protected during the time of the tribulation. Romans 11 clearly says that they have been blinded for our sake but the veil of will soon be removed from their eyes.
I've studied Revelation for many years and it is not easy to understand. After 20 years, I've just discovered another nuance to this particular passage. The great sign in the heavens is spoken of is a physical sign. Remember in Genesis, that the sun, moon and stars were made for signs as well.

 

[Charlie24]

You are right Paul is not talking about the 7 th trumpet of Revelation .It is the trumpet mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 that will sound unto the Glorious Coming of Jesus at the moment that Jesus will send His angels to gather the elect.
Matthew 24
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Finally we agree on something!

Here's the key to understanding what Paul wrote to the churchs at Thess, and Corinth, and what Jesus said in Matt. 24.

Paul is addressing the believing church and only the church. Jesus is addressing unbelieving Israel and only Israel.

Many believe "the thief in the night" refers to the rapture, it is not! Paul wrote of it, Peter and John wrote of it, and it always refers to the nation of Israel. It is always used in reference to the second coming. At the second coming Israel will be delivered from the anti-christ and will see their Messiah, this when "all of Israel will be saved" as Paul wrote. It will be a total and complete surpise for Israel when Christ delivers his chosen people. It will be as a thief in the night, unexpected.

Paul is speaking to the chuch and what will become of the church. The Thess. church thought the "Day of Christ" the second coming, was about to take place. This came from false doctrine. Paul assures them that certain things must take place before this can happen.

If it were meant for the church to go through the tribulation Paul would have told them. But what does he say? He says, we (the church) are not appointed to wrath, then he tells them to comfort one another with these words.

 

[Riberra]

Paul is speaking to the chuch and what will become of the church. The Thess. church thought the "Day of Christ" the second coming, was about to take place. This came from false doctrine. Paul assures them that certain things must take place before this can happen.


If it were meant for the church to go through the tribulation Paul would have told them. But what does he say? He says, we (the church) are not appointed to wrath, then he tells them to comfort one another with these words.

Paul told them in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 that our gathering unto Jesus is tied to the Coming of Jesus ,and than that day of the Coming of Jesus and our gathering unto him WILL NOT COME except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,
THAT mean that the CHURCH will be on the EARTH WHEN the MAN of SIN will be revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,

 

[miknik5]

The trumpet that Paul speaks of in 1Thes. 4 is not the 7th trumpet of Rev.

John had not written the Revelation of Jesus Christ at this time and the Thes. church would have no knowledge of it. Paul knew through his own revelation from Christ (which he writes about) what would happen in the last days, but not one time did he tell the church they would suffer this wrath. In fact, he told them "for we are not appointed to wrath, but to obtain salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1Thes. 5:9

Paul was speaking to the church of what would befall them. The trumpet he speaks of is the closing of the church age when the true church is taken out of the way.

It is not Gods wrath that these will suffer sir which is why Christ forewarned HIS body to "overcome" by remaining faithful and not to "go out"

All things are under His Sivereign control and all things are working out for the good of those who love HIM and are called according to HIS purpose

We may suffer at the hands of wicked men but it isn't by Gods hand which is why it is important to wait and keep our garments with us and to not "go out"


Not by power or by might Sayeth the Lord but by My Spirit

That means we have to trust that all things are under His sovereign control even when and while things look so out of control