Entire Sanctification Biblical?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Will they get to a place of nearly or completely perfected holiness and sanctification, especially the 144,000 before Christ returns for His bride?

As Jesus told His disciples: with men this is impossible.
and : if you think you have it made, or think you can accomplish this (salvation, life) on your own, you have failed ALREADY, ....
however,
if you trust the heavenly FATHER to accomplish this (salvation now, today, in this life, and for every day of this life , and in the life to come) THEN it is already done.
And so it is.

Without tremendous intimacy with God having been built up between the Bridegroom and the Bride, it is impossible, and right now we're walking around practically spiritually naked and ashamed, let alone fully clothed in the Holiness of God.

This sounds more emotional than applicable,
or / also, like a true description of the best most people ever get to see or hope for (as GOD SAYS IN HIS WORD)
but as above,
with men it is impossible,
with God it is already done. (and has been all along, since the first century ) God has kept for Himself a testimony in every nation all along, called, chosen and set apart for HImself, by His Doing, as He says in His Word - His Plan. His Purpose. His Salvation. His Doing, His All in All - in Jesus. "Hidden under His Wings" = "willing" instead of like Jerusalem "but ye would not" ....

 

[Hidden In Him]

This sounds more emotional than applicable,

Very interesting statement. Yes, but then I am a very emotional man, and so closeness to God will be expressed through a personality like mine in emotional terms of intimacy. People born with other personalities would express it differently.

or / also, like a true description of the best most people ever get to see or hope for

Not necessarily. This would imply a shortcoming. Actually, by "tremendous intimacy with God having been built up between the Bridegroom and the Bride" I was trying to communicate that this would be the antecedent to the full manifestation of the 144,000. (James 4:8).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Not necessarily.

Most people do not get to see the ekklesia as seen in ACTS,
and today in small assemblies around the world.

The only place they might get to , first, (if it can happen this way)
is in Scripture.

Some(few)(believers AND unbelievers) have already see ekklesia as writtin in the NT, around the world in varied places, placed by God, called and chosen by Him, entirely His Plan, His orchestration, His DOing.

Multitudes of others do not keep looking. They might never look, or they give up before finding.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Most people do not get to see the ekklesia as seen in ACTS, and today in small assemblies around the world. The only place they might get to, first, (if it can happen this way) is in Scripture.

If it could happen exclusively this way, I would be living proof of it. I receive revelation on an almost continual basis for hours sometimes. But again, such moments or time periods are fleeting. What is required is the entire church, i.e. entire congregations operating in the gifts and in the Spirit and in the Word, each sharing as God gave them on a continual basis, so that someone is always ministering the food of God at any given moment, and anyone hungry is receiving. And thus the abiding Presence of the Spirit is always there, ministering and resting upon them all.

Some(few)(believers AND unbelievers) have already see ekklesia as writtin in the NT, around the world in varied places, placed by God, called and chosen by Him, entirely His Plan, His orchestration, His Doing.

Yes, as they hear His voice they are led to such places, as maybe you and I were led here, and many others with us, and many more coming. Will it ever be true NT fellowship in the Spirit? That was a debate for another thread I believe, where I said it would indeed be possible

Multitudes of others do not keep looking. They might never look, or they give up before finding.

Yes, and by not looking, they might never come here if no where else, when this place is just a mouse clicks away.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If it could happen exclusively this way, I would be living proof of it. I receive revelation on an almost continual basis for hours sometimes.

YHWH'S accomplishment is not caused by nor required by nor as if any revelations you get.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, and by not looking, they might never come here if no where else, when this place is just a mouse clicks away.

This doesn't line up with God's Word,
nor does it make sense here, ....
doesn't make any sense at all ...

 

[Hidden In Him]

YHWH'S accomplishment is not caused by nor required by nor as if any revelations you get.

Clarify these words. The ending sounds like you cut short proper explanation by a few.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This doesn't line up with God's Word,
nor does it make sense here, ....
doesn't make any sense at all ...

And why?

 

[Aseyesee]

Is the doctrine of Entire Sanctification a Biblical doctrine?

Entire Sanctification teaches that there is a class of Christians who achieve moral perfection in this life.

There is a kind of elitism in the doctrine of Entire Sanctification, a feeling that those who have achieved moral perfection are somehow greater than other Christians.

Isn't Biblical sanctification a LIFELONG PROCESS that is completed only when we go to Heaven??
View attachment 194814

It is but there are no classes. The process is returning to where you are, but in the mind of God, or christ that we are purposed to have, you are complete.

 

[Paidiske]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has had a clean.
Please note and abide by CF rules on flaming and goading.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[mikeforjesus]

You may find yourself hampered by someone who sows tares of despondency. He tries to prevent you from climbing to such heights of holiness by discouraging you with various thoughts. For instance, he will tell you that it is impossible for you to be saved and to keep every single one of God's commandments while you live in this world. When this happens you should sit down in a solitary place by yourself, collect yourself, concentrate your thoughts and give good counsel to your soul, saying: "Why, my soul, are you dejected, and why do you trouble me? Put your hope in God, for I will give thanks to Him; for my salvation lies not in my actions but in God (cf. Ps. 42:5). Who will be vindicated by actions done according to the law (cf. Gal 2:16)? No living person will be vindicated before God (cf. Ps. 143:2). Yet by virtue of my faith in God I hope that in His ineffable mercy He will give me salvation. Get behind me, Satan (cf. Matt. 16:23). I worship the Lord my God (cf. Matt. 4:10) and serve Him from my youth; for He is able to save me simply through His mercy. Go away from me. The God who created me in His image and likeness will reduce you to impotence."

—St. Symeon the New Theologian

Notice impotence God in His mercy can give us a new heart to obey His commandments therefore making satans power impotent. But we must seek it by grace as the persistent widow or friend

1 Peter 5:10 But may[a] the God of all grace, who called us[b] to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Most people do not get to see the ekklesia as seen in ACTS,
and today in small assemblies around the world.

The only place they might get to , first, (if it can happen this way)
is in Scripture.

Some(few)(believers AND unbelievers) have already see ekklesia as writtin in the NT, around the world in varied places, placed by God, called and chosen by Him, entirely His Plan, His orchestration, His DOing.

Multitudes of others do not keep looking. They might never look, or they give up before finding.

Will it ever be true NT fellowship in the Spirit?

It always has been.
Recently though, realizing the end of Malachi, and the letters to the messengers in the 7 'Churches' in the beginning of Revelation ,
it may be less and less,
not more....

If it could happen exclusively this way, I would be living proof of it. I receive revelation on an almost continual basis for hours sometimes. But again, such moments or time periods are fleeting. What is required is the entire church, i.e. entire congregations operating in the gifts and in the Spirit and in the Word, each sharing as God gave them on a continual basis, so that someone is always ministering the food of God at any given moment, and anyone hungry is receiving.

the entire church IS all the ekklesia, being whoever and everyone who is ekklesia. They do share as YHWH gives , as the SHEPHERD JESUS leads, continually, every day.

when this place is just a mouse clicks away.

They are not found via internet. Instead, what is found ? ??? >>> ('accidental' buffer quote) >>>

I don't remember any mantra about self-euthanize.
When did this happen? That would have made headlines around the world.

This last quote is from somewhere else, and was just in the buffer - did not see it until just now. But it is oddly pertinent.
The truth is not in the headlines.... lies instead - deception everywhere
as
written it would be. "the lie is published as truth, the truth is called a lie".....
and
not exactly euthanazia, but certainly the way for death is society mantras over and over and over about many things , worst of all the baby market.... pre-birth and post-birth....

 

[Hidden In Him]

It always has been.
Recently though, realizing the end of Malachi, and the letters to the messengers in the 7 'Churches' in the beginning of Revelation ,
it may be less and less,
not more....

If I understand you correctly, Jeff, then no. The outer court is going to get trampled, yes. But the inner court and especially the Holy of Holies is going to begin to become so filled with the Shekinah Glory of God that greater power will be manifested on earth than ever before in human history... and before the return of Messiah, as a testimony to His Love, the Bride becoming a true manifestation of Oneness with Him.

the entire church IS all the ekklesia, being whoever and everyone who is ekklesia. They do share as YHWH gives, as the SHEPHERD JESUS leads, continually, every day.

Yes, but nowhere near as much as they could be. The true model was 1 Corinthians 14:26-31, i.e. all, or nearly all believers in every church operating in divine utterances as the Spirit led them, and all ministering in the Spirit unto one another continually. I don't see that happening in the church very much today, do you? I'm not ruling out the possibility, and will certainly be excited for you to show me examples of where it is. But again, my point would simply be that it is most certainly not widespread. Just the opposite.

They are not found via internet.

I've already found several who operate in genuine spiritual gifts on the internet, and more specifically at this website.

This last quote is from somewhere else, and was just in the buffer - did not see it until just now. But it is oddly pertinent. The truth is not in the headlines.... lies instead - deception everywhere as written it would be. "the lie is published as truth, the truth is called a lie"..... and not exactly euthanazia, but certainly the way for death is society mantras over and over and over about many things , worst of all the baby market.... pre-birth and post-birth....

Jeff, with all due respect, you just left the building entirely with this quote. Try toning it down just a hair and bringing whatever this is down to a level where I can understand it.

Respectfully,
Hidden

 

[Aseyesee]

You may find yourself hampered by someone who sows tares of despondency. He tries to prevent you from climbing to such heights of holiness by discouraging you with various thoughts. For instance, he will tell you that it is impossible for you to be saved and to keep every single one of God's commandments while you live in this world. When this happens you should sit down in a solitary place by yourself, collect yourself, concentrate your thoughts and give good counsel to your soul, saying: "Why, my soul, are you dejected, and why do you trouble me? Put your hope in God, for I will give thanks to Him; for my salvation lies not in my actions but in God (cf. Ps. 42:5). Who will be vindicated by actions done according to the law (cf. Gal 2:16)? No living person will be vindicated before God (cf. Ps. 143:2). Yet by virtue of my faith in God I hope that in His ineffable mercy He will give me salvation. Get behind me, Satan (cf. Matt. 16:23). I worship the Lord my God (cf. Matt. 4:10) and serve Him from my youth; for He is able to save me simply through His mercy. Go away from me. The God who created me in His image and likeness will reduce you to impotence."

—St. Symeon the New Theologian

Notice impotence God in His mercy can give us a new heart to obey His commandments therefore making satans power impotent. But we must seek it by grace as the persistent widow or friend

1 Peter 5:10 But may[a] the God of all grace, who called us[b] to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you

To tend and keep the garden is the same as if your eye is single. Anything can become an issue of blood, mentally.

 

[Hidden In Him]

You may find yourself hampered by someone who sows tares of despondency. He tries to prevent you from climbing to such heights of holiness by discouraging you with various thoughts. For instance, he will tell you that it is impossible for you to be saved and to keep every single one of God's commandments while you live in this world. When this happens you should sit down in a solitary place by yourself, collect yourself, concentrate your thoughts and give good counsel to your soul, saying: "Why, my soul, are you dejected, and why do you trouble me? Put your hope in God, for I will give thanks to Him; for my salvation lies not in my actions but in God (cf. Ps. 42:5). Who will be vindicated by actions done according to the law (cf. Gal 2:16)? No living person will be vindicated before God (cf. Ps. 143:2). Yet by virtue of my faith in God I hope that in His ineffable mercy He will give me salvation. Get behind me, Satan (cf. Matt. 16:23). I worship the Lord my God (cf. Matt. 4:10) and serve Him from my youth; for He is able to save me simply through His mercy. Go away from me. The God who created me in His image and likeness will reduce you to impotence."

—St. Symeon the New Theologian

Nice quote, and adds some credence to what appears to be Jeff's position. But to that let me say this, quoting again his statements:

As Jesus told His disciples: with men this is impossible. And if you think you have it made, or think you can accomplish this (salvation, life) on your own, you have failed ALREADY... However, if you trust the heavenly FATHER to accomplish this (salvation now, today, in this life, and for every day of this life , and in the life to come) THEN it is already done.
And so it is.

For starters Jeff, the subject matter was and has been entire sanctification. For you to interject and interpose the word "salvation" in its place here is making an extremely exclusivist claim, is it not? You're essentially saying no one can be saved without entire sanctification in this life.

As Jesus told His disciples: with men this is impossible. And, if you think you have it made, or think you can accomplish this...

If, however, you are correctly arguing a case merely for the possibility of entire sanctification here, let me just repeat and explain my words as quoted below:

Will they get to a place of nearly or completely perfected holiness and sanctification, especially the 144,000 before Christ returns for His bride? Hmmmm.... possible, but I don't think this matter should be concerning us right now. Without tremendous intimacy with God having been built up between the Bridegroom and the Bride, it is impossible, and right now we're walking around practically spiritually naked and ashamed, let alone fully clothed in the Holiness of God.

Yes. With God all things are possible, including the possibility of entire sanctification in this life. But there would be steps He would take to accomplish it, at least unless He wanted to violate our free wills, and I don't see Him as ever interested in doing that. What I mean specifically is that the church, drawing ever deeper into the Holy of Holies is going to gradually begin purifying herself collectively, until it is finally attained in the 144,000. His plan is for it to happen through the collective operation of His people in ever-increasing, evermore intense and powerful manifestations of the gifts. Yes, all things are possible, but at the present time I'd still like to be shown evidence of where.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, all things are possible, but at the present time I'd still like to be shown evidence of where.

The evidence is in the Bible. For with God all things are possible. But people have to believe God's Word by faith. That is where it begins. I believe a few believers already achieved this already. Like Enoch. For he pleased God in such a way that he did not see death. Surely this was not because God was just playing random favorites. Enoch pleased God in the fact that he lived righteously in such a way (unlike others).

What is holding some people back is that they do not want to plainly believe what the Bible says because they do not like the idea of being able to overcome sin in this life. Such an idea is okay for somebody else, but for them, they think it is offensive or impossible. They want proof. Something they can see before they make the move. But God's Word is the proof. For without faith it is impossible to please Him. For if you seen believers walking perfectly around you, you would not need faith. Besides, how can you be aware of whether or not there are certain believers out there somewhere who are walking perfectly without your knowledge? You simply do not know. That is where faith comes in. The Bible plainly says that we are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. The Father is perfect because He is holy and sinless. So we cannot change the meaning of the word with the Greek. Jesus says to "sin no more." to two people. Jesus even said to one of them that if they were to sin again, a worse thing would come upon them. This does not sound like there was any wiggle room in this individual sinning again. Jesus says if a person looks upon a woman in lust, they are in danger of having their whole body being cast into hell fire. Is Jesus into making idle threats? Surely not. Just do a keyword search on the word "perfect" in the Bible and you will see that it is used quite often in reference to the saints. We are told to be a holy and a peculiar people. We are told that without holiness... no man shall see the Lord. The best position or goal on holiness is the belief that one is shooting to overcome sin. For if I said that I wanted to lose weight and yet said it was impossible to keep the weight off, than I would be defeating myself before I even started.

You have to believe.... then you can receive.

...

 

[Daniel Marsh]

There are two simple ways to refute Entire Sanctification some versions are not based on position in Christ --- which may just be one local church I encountered.

1. I John 1:8-10 if you say you have no sin....

2. Ask his wife...

A plain account of Christian perfection / John Wesley
Google

Other authors you can look into are:
A Few Old Books From My Library

for online refutations:
Google

another related term is Holiness Movement

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are two simple ways to refute Entire Sanctification some versions are not based on position in Christ --- which may just be one local church I encountered.

1. I John 1:8-10 if you say you have no sin....

2. Ask his wife...

A plain account of Christian perfection / John Wesley
Google

Other authors you can look into are:
A Few Old Books From My Library

for online refutations:
Google

another related term is Holiness Movement

Does not 1 John 1:8 say that if we have no sin we deceive ourselves?

Answer: Well, what is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at it's immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 moves verse 8 (which is present tense) into a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned at some point in their life (Regardless of whether they are an OSAS believer or a Conditional Salvationist). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their sins are paid for: Past, present, and future by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus paid for it all by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.


….

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Plus, you can check out my 50 points in Scripture that defends Sinless Perfectionism in my post within this thread here. So yes, Sinless Perfectionism is very biblical. To deny it is to deny the plain reading of your own Bible in English.


...

 

[JIMINZ]

Is the doctrine of Entire Sanctification Biblical?

Hi There K.A.C.

I have noticed, after having read a great number of replies to your question.

Everyone is answering your question based upon their own personal beliefs, they give you a verse and then Interpret it for you, this is their own opinion.

Try this for a change, seek God for the answer.

Take the word Sanctification, and define it.

Once you have a full understanding of how Sanctification is used in the New Testament, then you will be able to apply what you have learned to what your question was.

You will at the same time have to, put away what your first impressions are because of the Church you attended.

I will tell you, these words only have (1) Definition for each use.

New Testament
Sanctify - G37
Sanctified - G37
Sanctification - G38)

Old Testament
Sanctify - H6942
Sanctified - H6942

Understand this first, don't go around looking for doctrines you can follow, look first and foremost for your relationship with God.

Be Blessed