Eliyahu ben David

[yedida]

Just my 2cents here, I have nothing invested in this man, thank God. I would advise each and every one of you to not look for ways that this "ministry" can be restored, it seriously looks like it was fradulent and unscriptural from go-get. Yeshua never taught exclusivity except where He himself was concerned. Hashem does not share his glory with man. All praise, glory, honor and strength go to Hashem and no one else. Anyone trying to share in these things is a false shepherd.
Pull the pieces of yourselves that you have left together, clean them up, give 'em a good shine and put them back in place. There is much left of each of you and the Lord can use your experience for HIS GLORY.
Move on.

Sorry, I just felt I had to say something after reading some of your comments, especially the ones where some are praying for a way to fix that guy's ministry. Let it go and move on. Fix yourselves, you've been used, abused, devoured and spit out. Let God deal with this Steve//E dude. Move on.

 

[smarternow77]

Thank you, Cherry Blossom for your additional testimony.
Passage Matthew 18:16:

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

 

[smarternow77]

Well said.

 

[SAM Wis]

Just my 2cents here, I have nothing invested in this man, thank God. I would advise each and every one of you to not look for ways that this "ministry" can be restored, it seriously looks like it was fradulent and unscriptural from go-get. ...

Sorry, I just felt I had to say something after reading some of your comments, especially the ones where some are praying for a way to fix that guy's ministry. Let it go and move on. Fix yourselves, you've been used, abused, devoured and spit out. Let God deal with this Steve//E dude. Move on.

No apology necessary, Yedida!

I think you have expressed the heart feelings of many.
As one of the "whistleblowers" though one with the least involvement and first hand experience to offer, I am thankful to see that people are opening their eyes in this whole sad story.

It is indeed sad what lengths seem to be involved here in promoting the wrong things and I continue to affirm the suggestions I made a while back...about evaluating what people found compelling in Tsiyon, what they learned about themselves in the process, how they are improving their own study skills, and what criteria they are using to determine whether or not a teacher of the Word is reputable and has integrity.

At the same time, I do still believe that YHWH is orchestrating this and wonder if the iniquity is yet complete?

I continue to request prayer for the wellbeing and safety of all involved as the tension and anger apparently seems to be rising among those with Tsiyon. Most people don't much enjoy accountability when they are on the receiving end, let alone if there are any other factors we don't specifically know that are fueling the fires. Innocent people have been hurt and could well suffer additional harm in the process.

The misrepresentations may be coming from a desire for vengeance OR they could be coming from deep fears. Either way we DO know they are accountable to our YHWH, especially as teachers and I don't think that standing before Him right now would be a very desirable place to be in.

Relevant Data and dhkrause, my college attending daughter tells me there have been a number of discussions (in her classes) about integrity and confidentiality on the internet...specifically as to when it is appropriate to remain anonymous.

Do you know if there might be some online discussion boards that people might check for guidelines or further understanding of what is and isn't acceptable or legal?

 

[Cherry Blossom]

Wow!! without even trying to go E's/Steve's site, which the websites automatically comes up in my top 25 websites on my mac, when I hit command tab to type in a web address or to go to one of my other favorite sites) I had noticed that everything on his site disappeared & vanished. I also noticed that the Torah calendar wasn't updated either on the community forum when a new month begins, which began yesterday in Israel, which is unusual that it wasn't updated. What is happening I wonder? Is the ministry closing shop for good? or for now?, or will E/Steve moved his ministry under a new name and new website or to a new geographical site altogether? Meaning is he relocating his family to another geographical place? Even though I withdrew from the E's ministry wks ago, I still get the wkly Tsiyon newsletters & I didn't even get the wkly Tsiyon news that I normally get. Something seems to be happening.

And yes I do want to move on for sure, I am tired of being hung up and being upset over E's ministry. I know YHWH will get me through this. Praise YHWH that the Truth has been revealed and that He will give me and others the strength to move forward to doing His will.

 

[smarternow77]

You are right. Could be maintenance issues.

 

[2the1whojudgesjustly]

It is indeed sad what lengths seem to be involved here in promoting the wrong things and I continue to affirm the suggestions I made a while back...about evaluating what people found compelling in Tsiyon, what they learned about themselves in the process, how they are improving their own study skills, and what criteria they are using to determine whether or not a teacher of the Word is reputable and has integrity. ¨¨¨

samwis I think what we all found compelling in Tsiyon are the truths we learned through it...Yeshua said he is the way, the TRUTH, and the life...but now we find that there were also LIES mixed with TRUTH in Tsiyon...this is definately very typical of the our enemy´s kingdom schemes..he tempted our Yeshua in the same way...

I think I´ve learned...
1.) to trust no man´s teaching bc Yeshua said the Ruach Ha Kodesh would teach us and we would need no man to teach us...and to continualy test teachings not to become comfortable with a teacher...

2.) to be a more attentive listener to the gentle prompting of ¨red flags¨by the Ruach HaKodesh

3.) That I shouldn´t have man´s criterea to evaluate a man or woman teacher...bc YHVH can use anyone to speak to us but rather learn to know Yeshua´s voice more in my life and when HE is or is not speaking...

4.) One to one personal face to face discipleship is what Yeshua demonstrated on earth as an example to us and we should build up the REAL relationships we have in real life and not in cyberspace where so much communication is lost and misinterpreted

5. I am improving my study skills by continueing to read the Bible everyday and meditate on it in prayer so that I will know the TRUTH first





Relevant Data and dhkrause, my college attending daughter tells me there have been a number of discussions (in her classes) about integrity and confidentiality on the internet...specifically as to when it is appropriate to remain anonymous. ¨¨

I am really thankful to all of you for your openness and honesty and revealing the truth of things you experienced first hand without which I may not have made the right decisions and continued to be decieved by Steve/E´s 1 sided teachings.

I think as far an anonymonimity¨? sp?- the less the better on the internet bc as we all have seen once its in there you can´t take it out

May YHVH bless you all and KEEP you and Make HIS face to shine upon you b´shem Yeshua

 

[yedida]

Here's another suggestion, but i may be out of line here as I'm not really in the loop as to what it was all about, but here goes (possibly my foot in my mouth):

I've heard something about this dude claiming he was the white rider? I'll tell you, the moment I'd have heard that, if I had been among you guys, I would have walked away right there and then. For the Master said, many will claim they are the Christ, etc. That doesn't mean JUST the Christ, it could be any claims of exclusivity. I'm the white horse rider so you guys are doing really great! See? You're with me and look at all those out there who don't know what you know......etc, etc. That's how cults get off the ground. And he probably had most of you well-grounded in his pseudo teachings that sounded sooooo very right on, so rock-solid. Remember it only took one or two words by the serpent to totally change what Hashem had actually commanded in the Garden.

Like I said, I wasn't there and I could be way off the mark here, if so, accept my apologies. IF not, please take to heart - the moment you begin hearing, especially, that "exclusivity" thing about any teacher/congregation/organization that you are a part of, if you can't run or walk away, at least take several steps backwards so you can get a better feel of what exactly is going on. OK?

 

[dhkrause]

I am really thankful to all of you for your openness and honesty and revealing the truth of things you experienced first hand without which I may not have made the right decisions and continued to be deceived by Steve/E´s 1 sided teachings.
...
May YHVH bless you all and KEEP you and Make HIS face to shine upon you b´shem Yeshua

Thank you, 2the1whojudgesjustly, for this thoughtful post. I can definitely tune in with all the lessons learned that you listed.

 

[dhkrause]

Relevant Data and dhkrause, my college attending daughter tells me there have been a number of discussions (in her classes) about integrity and confidentiality on the internet...specifically as to when it is appropriate to remain anonymous.

Do you know if there might be some online discussion boards that people might check for guidelines or further understanding of what is and isn't acceptable or legal?

A Google search on anonymous legal online comes up with many discussions on this issue; apparently it is a hot topic!
I think it is good policy for a forum to allow people to have the option of including or not including their name and email address in their posts, and to require registration that includes one's real name and email address. On the other hand, when sending a personal email to someone, one should not be anonymous - as is the practice of certain individuals at Tsiyon.
- David Krause
Write a wise saying and people will remember your name forever.
- Anonymous

 

[dhkrause]

Like I said, I wasn't there and I could be way off the mark here, if so, accept my apologies. IF not, please take to heart - the moment you begin hearing, especially, that "exclusivity" thing about any teacher/congregation/organization that you are a part of, if you can't run or walk away, at least take several steps backwards so you can get a better feel of what exactly is going on. OK?

For Tsiyon partners who are doing what Yedida here describes – taking a few steps backward to evaluate what exactly is going on, here is a summary of events surrounding the fire.

In program #318 airing on February 3, 2012, five months after the fire on September 4, 2011, Steve/E suddenly insinuated that one of the two invited guests that day had stepped outside during their visit and cut the brake "cable" on his vehicle. In the program he states that he noticed a problem with his brakes immediately. Recently he has also stated that a main reason he went to College Station was to get his brakes fixed, because that wasn't possible in the area near the fire. (This was an 80 mile drive on Monday, September 5, with his family in the car.) In the program, he goes on to say that this act of sabotage and attempted murder was part of a satanic witchcraft attack against him and his ministry.

Interestingly, in the Tsiyon Partner meeting on November 28, 2011, approximately three months after the fire, Steve/E talks with Barb of Set Apart Ministries about what they both had experienced on the day of the fire, and about his desire for their two ministries to work together. No mention is made of a brake problem being noticed on the day of the fire as they fled in their vehicles. John (truthckr on this forum) reports that on Tuesday, September 6, two days after the fire, Steve/E called him to say that a mechanic checking his vehicle had just reported that the brake "line" was cut cleanly clear through. Steve/E was understandably upset and declared that someone in College Station may have recognized his vehicle and done this sabotage.

If the cutting of the brake "line" or "cable" occurred on the day of the fire on the property, why did Steve/E not mention this until five months later? Also, if he noticed a brake problem immediately, why did he drive 80 miles to College Station with his family in the car instead of taking the car to Austin only 25 miles away or having it towed there? Moreover, if he noticed a brake problem immediately, why then did he tell John Tuesday morning that he suspected someone in College Station had recognized his vehicle and cut the "line"? All of this together with the warm reception he gave to Barb on the November 28 partner call belies his accusations against her two months later.

These allegations against the two invited guests and the whole fabricated story regarding these two women comprise a diversion concocted to distract attention from the investigation begun on this forum in December regarding his identity as Steven Butt and his past history. His attempt to salvage and advance his ministry by falsely attacking others is a sad commentary on the condition of his heart. These lying attacks are not the mark of a true servant of Messiah, but of unbridled ambition trampling on anyone who gets in the way.

 

[dhkrause]

<Deleted duplicate message posted by mistake.>

 

[SAM Wis]

It is indeed sad what lengths seem to be involved here in promoting the wrong things and I continue to affirm the suggestions I made a while back...about evaluating what people found compelling in Tsiyon, what they learned about themselves in the process, how they are improving their own study skills, and what criteria they are using to determine whether or not a teacher of the Word is reputable and has integrity. ¨¨¨

samwis I think what we all found compelling in Tsiyon are the truths we learned through it...Yeshua said he is the way, the TRUTH, and the life...but now we find that there were also LIES mixed with TRUTH in Tsiyon...this is definately very typical of the our enemy´s kingdom schemes..he tempted our Yeshua in the same way...

I think I´ve learned...
1.) to trust no man´s teaching bc Yeshua said the Ruach Ha Kodesh would teach us and we would need no man to teach us...and to continualy test teachings not to become comfortable with a teacher...

2.) to be a more attentive listener to the gentle prompting of ¨red flags¨by the Ruach HaKodesh

3.) That I shouldn´t have man´s criterea to evaluate a man or woman teacher...bc YHVH can use anyone to speak to us but rather learn to know Yeshua´s voice more in my life and when HE is or is not speaking...

4.) One to one personal face to face discipleship is what Yeshua demonstrated on earth as an example to us and we should build up the REAL relationships we have in real life and not in cyberspace where so much communication is lost and misinterpreted

5. I am improving my study skills by continueing to read the Bible everyday and meditate on it in prayer so that I will know the TRUTH first


Relevant Data and dhkrause, my college attending daughter tells me there have been a number of discussions (in her classes) about integrity and confidentiality on the internet...specifically as to when it is appropriate to remain anonymous. ¨¨

I am really thankful to all of you for your openness and honesty and revealing the truth of things you experienced first hand without which I may not have made the right decisions and continued to be decieved by Steve/E´s 1 sided teachings.

I think as far an anonymonimity¨? sp?- the less the better on the internet bc as we all have seen once its in there you can´t take it out

May YHVH bless you all and KEEP you and Make HIS face to shine upon you b´shem Yeshua

Thank you so much, 2the1whojudgesjustly!

This is a blessing indeed to read what you have been thinking about and doing. I appreciate knowing that our warnings have been seriously considered, as it makes whatever has come of it well worth the struggle!
I appreciate your having taken the time to write out your thoughts in response to my 4 questions. Good to know they, too, have been helpful to someone!

Yes, there have been some good and helpful things taught through Tsiyon ministries which is why we were interested in the first place, too! Steve has spoken about some things that are rarely discussed which I think has been compelling. But then, it has been a mixture...this struggle to be discerning is what led to my visit there in the first place! So now, to my surprise, in serving our Abba, He has led me into the middle of a hurricane, to Africa and to a forest fire. Wonder what's next!

Oh boy! Are you singing my song in point 4! I have benefited, too, from the teaching that has been available through media so I can't ever discount it entirely but I have just gotten so concerned in the past few years that it is now too easy for people to just think that feeding their interest in Scriptural knowledge is all that's needed, without being in the context of relationships. So, if they get upset at something locally, they just withdraw to their radio/internet teachers rather than let iron sharpen iron. And the teachers who run on such incredibly full schedules from place to place are also dealing with issues on the other side: if they don't have a community/shepherd in which they are personally accountable, aren't they at risk too? Sometimes too much of a good thing isn't good anymore.

On point 5, if I don't sound too much like I am on my soapbox, may I venture to add that while I wholeheartedly agree that it is wise to read Scripture daily while asking the Ruach to speak to us through it, it is also good to know some of the ways Scripture can be studied more deeply through the actual words themselves. The incredible intricacy and depth He has woven in just boggles my mind and heart, and the more I learn, the more I see I need to learn. (I did a PowerPoint on these levels at our SAM site...going through the various levels of study, just FYI. In The Beginning:An Interactive Study of the word, link is found on our What's New? page)

It seems like some people (not meaning you, 2the1whojudgesjustly) still struggle with the idea that one way or the other is the ONLY way, forgetting that our Abba gave us both the Written Word and the Living Word. Just as He made the ocean with its depths, He also made the shallows.

Physical things are so often just the picture to help us better understand the spiritual matters, but if we discount the physical, it is far too easy to just sail off into unsubstantiated interpretations.

I remember having someone come to our study years ago who ONLY wanted to read and let the Spirit speak, thinking that anything else was somehow unspiritual. We pondered that for a while and came to several conclusions:
1) the fruit in this person's life anyway, seemed to indicate a rigidity, hostility and a "stuckness" that led to greater and greater isolation rather than Torah pursuant fellowship and study.
2) IF every person was at a high degree of maturity and depth in faith where they were all equally able to hear and correctly discern what the Spirit is saying this would be pure joy...and this is what I would think will happen when Yeshua sets His feet on the Mountain. But until then, we need to be humble and realize that not every person is equally equipped to discern correctly so instruction is still necessary.

Both Moshe and Yeshua spoke of their concern for people harried and helpless without a shepherd, but of course, we had best be careful about which kind of shepherd we look to! Ezekiel 34 describes both kinds.

When these ways of study are more familiar,and the Voice of the Ruach is our guide, it will be less easy to be swayed or confused when teachings are not quite on the mark.

Again, thank you so much for your thoughtful observations and prayer cover for us all. I do believe that we will be seeing more and more of these kinds of things that just require more and more discernment in order not to be deceived and taken out.

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev. 22:11

We can't force anything on anyone, nor would we want to! But we can walk the walk we understand He is teaching us and be holy=kadosh=set apart!
​

 

[SAM Wis]

A Google search on anonymous legal online comes up with many discussions on this issue; apparently it is a hot topic!
I think it is good policy for a forum to allow people to have the option of including or not including their name and email address in their posts, and to require registration that includes one's real name and email address. On the other hand, when sending a personal email to someone, one should not be anonymous - as is the practice of certain individuals at Tsiyon.
- David Krause,
Write a wise saying and people will remember your name forever.
- Anonymous

Shalom dhkrause;
I looked around a little, too. The details are amazing, and with the discussion of current attempts to set and enforce standards it all gets muddy pretty fast.

I suppose another example of the mixed nature of the internet and digital technology...helpful yet harmful, too.

For my own thought, my 2 cents worth, it seems appropriate that allowance for anonymity needs to be made when there is a question of some kind of personal danger or damage. As in the case here where important already public information was gathered in one place to make it more readily available to those who were looking. As Relevant Data has written to me, I suppose we can easily see now why his (Relevant Data's) identity has been carefully guarded.
On the other hand, if anonymity is being used to slander or libel another without grounds, that kind of anonymity seems to be destructive and dangerous, as well as illegal, and possibly criminal in intent.

Safe to say we all need the wisdom of Solomon to sort this one out!

 

[Knysna Mom]

I've heard something about this dude claiming he was the white rider? I'll tell you, the moment I'd have heard that, if I had been among you guys, I would have walked away right there and then. . .

Shalom Yedida The fact is that S/E didn't ever actually claim to be the WHR - when a listener asked him if he was the WHR he responded by saying, in effect, that the WHR will be known by what he does and that only the person who succeeds in returning the Remnant to Israel would be the WHR.

I have stopped listening to the programs and so did not hear the recent broadcast where he apparently does claim to be the WHR - as you rightly say any outright claims of that sort should be enough to make one run a mile!

 

[Cherry Blossom]

Programs #s 306, 307. & 308 (esp. #308) addresses the white horse rider and E's role regarding the remnant of Israel? This was aired in Nov 2011.

After those programs which are the following programs + E's behavior towards those who question him, that is, his character & responses and his following programs shows inconsistency, misrepresentations, accusations and lies stated as in the program that is accusing SAM of being a witch. The program in which he addresses polygamy didn't sound right either.

Those are the things(which is the intregity & or humbleness and character of a believer in Yeshua) that I look at, to see, if a certain leader is or could be the one that YHWH has chosen to be the white horse leader or the one to lead the remnant back through the 2nd Exodus. (or the anointed ordained leader). I look to see if that leader has those qualities and how he treats his sheep esp. if there is a question or someone is challenging him on something.

Because he lacks in leadership/people skills & deals with those who challenge him in a hostile manner tells me that there is a big problem and that it is time to leave E's/Steve's ministry.

 

[yedida]

All I can say is Baruch Hashem! for all of you who have painfully and tearfully (perhaps) ripped those blinders off and are joyfully facing the Light that was in you all along but being seriously dimmed for awhile.
Hashem has a wonderful journey yet ahead for each and everyone of you. Be blessed in His special shalom and in the experience He allowed you to undergo. Perhaps, you are the called ones to watch vigorously over those who have yet to experience the brilliance that the enemy can use?

 

[Knysna Mom]

Thank you, Yedida - I trust that all of us who were deceived by this will be much wiser in future

 

[SAM Wis]

yedida[/B]

Like I said, I wasn't there and I could be way off the mark here, if so, accept my apologies. IF not, please take to heart - the moment you begin hearing, especially, that "exclusivity" thing about any teacher/congregation/organization that you are a part of, if you can't run or walk away, at least take several steps backwards so you can get a better feel of what exactly is going on. OK?
​

For Tsiyon partners who are doing what Yedida here describes &#8211; taking a few steps backward to evaluate what exactly is going on, here is a summary of events surrounding the fire.

In program #318 airing on February 3, 2012, five months after the fire on September 4, 2011, Steve/E suddenly insinuated that one of the two invited guests that day had stepped outside during their visit and cut the brake cable on his vehicle. In the program he states that he noticed a problem with his brakes immediately. Recently he has also stated that a main reason he went to College Station was to get his brakes fixed, because that wasn't possible in the area near the fire. (This was an 80 mile drive on Monday, September 5, with his family in the car.) In the program, he goes on to say that this act of sabotage and attempted murder was part of a satanic witchcraft attack against him and his ministry.

Interestingly, in the Tsiyon Partner meeting on November 28, 2011, approximately three months after the fire, Steve/E talks with Barb of Set Apart Ministries about what they both had experienced on the day of the fire, and about his desire for their two ministries to work together. No mention is made of a brake problem being noticed on the day of the fire as they fled in their vehicles. John (truthckr on this forum) reports that on Tuesday, September 6, two days after the fire, Steve/E called him to say that a mechanic checking his vehicle had just reported that the brake cable was cut cleanly clear through. Steve/E was understandably upset and declared that someone in College Station may have recognized his vehicle and done this sabotage.

If the cutting of the brake cable occurred on the day of the fire on the property, why did Steve/E not mention this until five months later? Also, if he noticed a brake problem immediately, why did he drive 80 miles to College Station with his family in the car instead of taking the car to Austin only 25 miles away or having it towed there? Moreover, if he noticed a brake problem immediately, why then did he tell John Tuesday morning that he suspected someone in College Station had recognized his vehicle and cut the cable? All of this together with the warm reception he gave to Barb on the November 28 partner call belies his accusations against her two months later.

These allegations against the two invited guests and the whole fabricated story regarding these two women comprise a diversion concocted to distract attention from the investigation begun on this forum in December regarding his identity as Steven Butt and his past history. His attempt to salvage and advance his ministry by falsely attacking others is a sad commentary on the condition of his heart. These lying attacks are not the mark of a true servant of Messiah, but of unbridled ambition trampling on anyone who gets in the way.

Thank you dhkrause, for taking your time to investigate and refute these accusations. May our Abba bless and strengthen you and yours.

 

[SAM Wis]

Programs #s 306, 307. & 308 (esp. #308) addresses the white horse rider and E's role regarding the remnant of Israel? This was aired in Nov 2011.

After those programs which are the following programs + E's behavior towards those who question him, that is, his character & responses and his following programs shows inconsistency, misrepresentations, accusations and lies stated as in the program that is accusing SAM of being a witch. The program in which he addresses polygamy didn't sound right either.

Those are the things(which is the intregity & or humbleness and character of a believer in Yeshua) that I look at, to see, if a certain leader is or could be the one that YHWH has chosen to be the white horse leader or the one to lead the remnant back through the 2nd Exodus. (or the anointed ordained leader). I look to see if that leader has those qualities and how he treats his sheep esp. if there is a question or someone is challenging him on something.

Because he lacks in leadership/people skills & deals with those who challenge him in a hostile manner tells me that there is a big problem and that it is time to leave E's/Steve's ministry.

Thank you Cherry Blossom for your clarity and insight here.
I think I understand something of how painful this has been for you when you had been in such close relationship with Steve and family. I agree with Yedida and pray that this experience will be a strengthening for you and for others as we will likely see similar situations as we draw closer to Messiah's return.