Please can others who have been "bitten" by E/S's ministry share where you are now being fed spiritually? Are there any Messianic teachers that you trust?
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Blessings to you in your search. I have been blessed by the teachings found at testeverything dot net or it can also be found at 119ministries dot com. I know there are many, many worthwhile teachers out there, but after being bitten once we want to be extra careful. Some of us have done some investigation into these teachers and at this point feel comfortable with them. I believe you will note almost immediately that both teachers portray great humility in their presentation. Another nice thing on this site is that it has links to "other teachers" where you can also listen to a variety of teachers. I do believe there's more safety in a multitude of advisors rather than getting all our sustenance from one source. I pray this will be helpful to you and YHVH blesses you in your walk.
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Knysna Mom,
For my wife and I, the most difficult part of our journey now is finding where our YHWH would have us serve and minister. To date, we have not found another minister that is firm in teaching His Word and Truth. This does not mean that these ministries do not exist. It is simply that we have not found one yet.
The one thing that our time with Tsiyon Ministry taught us was to never again rely on one man's teaching. Even Paul was inspired to instruct us to test what is taught and to make sure it holds to His Word.
My wife and I are not discouraged and we do believe that YHWH has a place for us to minister and to fellowship. As we stay true to His Word and obey His Torah, He will direct our paths.
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Shalom all;
I appreciate the question about how to move on here as well as the encouragement provided by smarternow77 and trthckr.
I think we all have hope that helping to bring light into this confusion will help people to move along.
It is helpful and wonderful to find teachers of the Word who are humble and filled with integrity. At our SAM website (available in drop down menu above) we have a study guide of materials, ministries and teachers we have found to be reliable over the last 12 years that people are welcome to check out. It is found under the menu tab About Us, then Goals, then Local Guidelines and finally Study Guide.
There is also a PowerPoint available that includes a strategy for developing good study skills, currently found on our What's New? page:
In The Beginning:
An Interactive Study of the Word
There has also been a very informative thread here which covered in great detail some very excellent resources. Sorry, I don't recall the name of it. Perhaps someone else will know? (I checked: It is Advice on Exploring the Scriptures...currently on page 11. Please note that there will be variation in what people consider "good" resources, depending on their view of what it means to be in Messianic Judaism or Hebrew Christian or the various other labels.)
Recently, our community has been looking at 119 Ministries and I have spoken with one of the teachers there to learn about their background. At this point, we agree with smarternow77 that we are pleased with what we see there in knowledgability and humility. www.testeverything.net Though there may be some points of disagreement, the focus is very much on the need for all of us to study and test our faith, rather than on any one person's teaching.
May I say once again that it seems to me that this IS the greater issue -- for each one of us to be good Bereans, students of the Word, to learn good study skills and get into serious study of the Word using them! In this way, one gains awareness of the Word and personal familiarity that just can't be gained any other way! You know what you know and have studied deeply to find! People are less likely then, to fall to unsound or egocentric teaching.
It is also true that good study skills do not come overnight and that there is a place for good teachers during that time of learning! But one has to start somewhere and some time!
There are a number of Scripture teachers that teach such study skills and I can point to a few of them here:
Hebrew Language Courses: There are many good ones, but at least a basic familiarity with Hebrew would help avoid some of the more "obvious" errors that can creep in.
Greek Language Courses: For me anyway, I have found this study most useful in the sense that it allows me to better find the links back to the original Hebraic concepts.
Frank Houtz DryBonesRestorationCompany.org Several workshops offered
Tony Robinson RestorationofTorah.org Thematic/Chiasmus Study Free online study materials A " big picture" style of study, to describe briefly.
Brad Scott Wildbranch.org In depth study of Hebrew word by word
a "microscopic picture" style of study, to describe briefly.
Hope this helps, too, to point you in the right direction!
Watching and praying here.
I appreciate the question about how to move on here as well as the encouragement provided by smarternow77 and trthckr.
I think we all have hope that helping to bring light into this confusion will help people to move along.
It is helpful and wonderful to find teachers of the Word who are humble and filled with integrity. At our SAM website (available in drop down menu above) we have a study guide of materials, ministries and teachers we have found to be reliable over the last 12 years that people are welcome to check out. It is found under the menu tab About Us, then Goals, then Local Guidelines and finally Study Guide.
There is also a PowerPoint available that includes a strategy for developing good study skills, currently found on our What's New? page:
In The Beginning:
An Interactive Study of the Word
There has also been a very informative thread here which covered in great detail some very excellent resources. Sorry, I don't recall the name of it. Perhaps someone else will know? (I checked: It is Advice on Exploring the Scriptures...currently on page 11. Please note that there will be variation in what people consider "good" resources, depending on their view of what it means to be in Messianic Judaism or Hebrew Christian or the various other labels.)
Recently, our community has been looking at 119 Ministries and I have spoken with one of the teachers there to learn about their background. At this point, we agree with smarternow77 that we are pleased with what we see there in knowledgability and humility. www.testeverything.net Though there may be some points of disagreement, the focus is very much on the need for all of us to study and test our faith, rather than on any one person's teaching.
May I say once again that it seems to me that this IS the greater issue -- for each one of us to be good Bereans, students of the Word, to learn good study skills and get into serious study of the Word using them! In this way, one gains awareness of the Word and personal familiarity that just can't be gained any other way! You know what you know and have studied deeply to find! People are less likely then, to fall to unsound or egocentric teaching.
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,[/font]
till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-Christ- from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.[/font]
Ephesians 4:11-16
till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head-Christ- from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.[/font]
Ephesians 4:11-16
It is also true that good study skills do not come overnight and that there is a place for good teachers during that time of learning! But one has to start somewhere and some time!
There are a number of Scripture teachers that teach such study skills and I can point to a few of them here:
Hebrew Language Courses: There are many good ones, but at least a basic familiarity with Hebrew would help avoid some of the more "obvious" errors that can creep in.
Greek Language Courses: For me anyway, I have found this study most useful in the sense that it allows me to better find the links back to the original Hebraic concepts.
Frank Houtz DryBonesRestorationCompany.org Several workshops offered
Tony Robinson RestorationofTorah.org Thematic/Chiasmus Study Free online study materials A " big picture" style of study, to describe briefly.
Brad Scott Wildbranch.org In depth study of Hebrew word by word
a "microscopic picture" style of study, to describe briefly.
Hope this helps, too, to point you in the right direction!
Watching and praying here.
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I have been meaning to respond to this post but I have been working a lot lately.
For me, I am still trying to figure out and I am waiting on YHWH to let me know, where I am supposed to serve and volunteer at. At this point, I am on my own, reading YHWH's word.
I don't know whose's teachings I should be listening too,(or if I should get involved in the ministry of whose's teaching I am listening too) but I have subscribed to many podcasts and I am open to at least listen to the teachings that I have subscribed too. I am still searching around too, for ministries and other teacher's also.
The hardest part for me, is finding like minded believers to have fellowship with. I am pretty much on my own on this. I still am at this point, agree with many of E's earlier teachings and I still want to find a ministry that I can volunteer with, with other like minded believers who feel the same as me concerning E's earlier teachings, unless I stand to be corrected on this. YHWH will have to show me. But, I am sure there are other believers out there who agree with me and that there is a honest leader out there who is humble and believes in accountability from other believers who can lead this ministry that I feel so drawn to. Meaning, I still feel drawn to be a part of what I thought E's ministry is about, except E won't be the one leading it, unless, he repents and he is supposed to be the one to lead it. But I strongly believe at this point that it will be with another leader that YHWH puts in place. Where and when is a good question. I do have believer friends who I stay in contact with and hang out with also, but they are in a different place then me and I find it hard to relate to them unless we keep our conversations on superficial topics. I am also staying in touch regularly with a (one) couple who are former members of Tsiyon.
I hope I am making sense in what I am trying to communicate here.
For me, I am still trying to figure out and I am waiting on YHWH to let me know, where I am supposed to serve and volunteer at. At this point, I am on my own, reading YHWH's word.
I don't know whose's teachings I should be listening too,(or if I should get involved in the ministry of whose's teaching I am listening too) but I have subscribed to many podcasts and I am open to at least listen to the teachings that I have subscribed too. I am still searching around too, for ministries and other teacher's also.
The hardest part for me, is finding like minded believers to have fellowship with. I am pretty much on my own on this. I still am at this point, agree with many of E's earlier teachings and I still want to find a ministry that I can volunteer with, with other like minded believers who feel the same as me concerning E's earlier teachings, unless I stand to be corrected on this. YHWH will have to show me. But, I am sure there are other believers out there who agree with me and that there is a honest leader out there who is humble and believes in accountability from other believers who can lead this ministry that I feel so drawn to. Meaning, I still feel drawn to be a part of what I thought E's ministry is about, except E won't be the one leading it, unless, he repents and he is supposed to be the one to lead it. But I strongly believe at this point that it will be with another leader that YHWH puts in place. Where and when is a good question. I do have believer friends who I stay in contact with and hang out with also, but they are in a different place then me and I find it hard to relate to them unless we keep our conversations on superficial topics. I am also staying in touch regularly with a (one) couple who are former members of Tsiyon.
I hope I am making sense in what I am trying to communicate here.
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Thank you to all of you who have replied to my question. I appreciate all of your encouragement & advice and I will be checking out the various resources, teachers etc., mentioned.
Many thanks
Many thanks
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I am sorry, Knysna Mom, that, I wasn't able to offer you advice on your question. I am still looking for advice myself. But I did want to respond to your question.
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I recently discovered that Eliyahu ben David is a former polygamist. I had been a listener and financial partner for over a year before I discovered this fact. To say the least, I was hurt and confused and felt betrayed by his lack of honesty with his followers.
I think I could have gotten past it if he had just been honest and not tried to hide his past. I remember hearing a broadcast - probably a couple or three years ago, where he was giving his testimony. He made it pretty clear that he was raised a Jehovah's Witness but he made it sound as if he had just had one former wife, was divorced, and Dawn was his second wife. He never said a word about being a former polygamist.
Honestly, I miss hearing his teaching and it has left a hole in my life, but I am too troubled right now to trust him.
I listened to his broadcast 318 and the one thing that stood out to me, is that he said "immediately" after the fire he realized his brake line had been cut. Not to make too much of it but "immediately" is a relative term. He could have meant really soon after, not minutes or hours after.
I was wondering if he has openly discussed his polygamy on any broadcast that I'm not aware of.
I think I could have gotten past it if he had just been honest and not tried to hide his past. I remember hearing a broadcast - probably a couple or three years ago, where he was giving his testimony. He made it pretty clear that he was raised a Jehovah's Witness but he made it sound as if he had just had one former wife, was divorced, and Dawn was his second wife. He never said a word about being a former polygamist.
Honestly, I miss hearing his teaching and it has left a hole in my life, but I am too troubled right now to trust him.
I listened to his broadcast 318 and the one thing that stood out to me, is that he said "immediately" after the fire he realized his brake line had been cut. Not to make too much of it but "immediately" is a relative term. He could have meant really soon after, not minutes or hours after.
I was wondering if he has openly discussed his polygamy on any broadcast that I'm not aware of.
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The program on polygamy that I am aware of, was the one broadcasted either in Dec 2011, or January 2012. I think it was in Dec of 2011.
I understand fully how this deceit had effected you. I am still dealing with it myself.
May YHWH give you strength, encourage, direction, and wisdom for the next step and to move on.
I understand fully how this deceit had effected you. I am still dealing with it myself.
May YHWH give you strength, encourage, direction, and wisdom for the next step and to move on.
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I found the program and I listened to it. I'm glad that at least he finally came out and talked about it.
I'm still not sure how I feel about him.
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From what I understand, heard, and personally believe, E only talked about it in his program b/c several partners were confronting him about his past and he refused to talk about it,with his partners and more and more people were finding out about his past. So that left him no choice but to do a program about it.
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Lady Chuza,I found the program and I listened to it. I'm glad that at least he finally came out and talked about it.
I'm still not sure how I feel about him.
I can understand your feelings as my wife and I have the same. We worked full time with the Tsiyon Ministry during 2011. We ended up leaving because of the lies and false teaching. I have shared much of that testimony in this forum.
Yahweh is still working in our lives and I pray that He is working in your's as well. His promise is that He will "direct your path" and bring forth truth in you life. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.
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Chaplain David
CF Chaplain
truthckr;60587393...Yahweh is still working in our lives and I pray that He is working in your's as well. His promise is that He will "direct your path" and bring forth truth in you life. Please feel free to contact me if you have any further questions.[/quote said:
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Hi Lady Chuza
Regarding your last post about E and his teachings, I was thinking about you and wanted to know how are you doing now regarding Tsiyon Ministries? I hope you are still growing in your walk with Yeshua. Blessings upon you.
Cherry Blossom
Regarding your last post about E and his teachings, I was thinking about you and wanted to know how are you doing now regarding Tsiyon Ministries? I hope you are still growing in your walk with Yeshua. Blessings upon you.
Cherry Blossom
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Hi everyone.
It has been several months now, since all this stuff came out about E, and I was just wondering how everyone is doing? I hope YHWH is blessing you and you are growing closer in your walk with Him. For me, I am researching for myself, at a slow pace, of what E has taught to see if I need to be corrected in my thinking on anything. But I am also reading the Bible in order from beginning to end and I am in the book of Job right now.
It has been several months now, since all this stuff came out about E, and I was just wondering how everyone is doing? I hope YHWH is blessing you and you are growing closer in your walk with Him.
For me, I am researching for myself, at a slow pace, of what E has taught to see if I need to be corrected in my thinking on anything. But I am also reading the Bible in order from beginning to end and I am in the book of Job right now.
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Hi Cherry Blossom & everyone else
I have been meaning to share with you all a resource that I have found that has been a tremendous blessing to me - Art Katz was a Messianic Jew, who passed away in 2007 - many of his teachings (over 500 audio & written) have been uploaded to the web; my post count doesn't allow me to post the link but the address is Art Katz Ministries dot org. A good one to start with is "What A Jew Does With Jesus", his testimony of how he came to saving faith, in the early '70's, after being a Marxist/atheist.
From Wikipedia: "Katz was a founder of the Ben Israel Fellowship in Laporte, Minnesota, in 1975 (ref. Ben Israel Newsletter Summer 1975) with this stated vision: "a rugged discipleship training camp for end-time ministries (particularly to the Jewish people); a year-round convocation center for the preparation of God's people; a permanent community of committed believers out of which ministries will be nurtured and sent forth and finally, a refuge for entire Jewish families whom we expect to be swept into the Kingdom at a soon-coming time.
Except for a sabbatical from late 1985 to early 1987, Katz lived at Ben Israel (when he wasn't ministering worldwide) until his death in 2007 and hosted a summer-long "prophet school" where people from around the world would come, live together in a communal setting and learn from Katz and others about the prophetic life Katz believed Christians were called to."
There are no sugar-coated messages and I believe it's truth that today's believers desperately need to hear. Teachings that stand out for me are 'And They Crucified Him', 'Eternal Rule & Rewards', 'Has Jesus Made You Jewish', 'I Love The Lord . . . But', 'What Is A Good Work'
Blessings to you all
I have been meaning to share with you all a resource that I have found that has been a tremendous blessing to me - Art Katz was a Messianic Jew, who passed away in 2007 - many of his teachings (over 500 audio & written) have been uploaded to the web; my post count doesn't allow me to post the link but the address is Art Katz Ministries dot org. A good one to start with is "What A Jew Does With Jesus", his testimony of how he came to saving faith, in the early '70's, after being a Marxist/atheist.
From Wikipedia: "Katz was a founder of the Ben Israel Fellowship in Laporte, Minnesota, in 1975 (ref. Ben Israel Newsletter Summer 1975) with this stated vision: "a rugged discipleship training camp for end-time ministries (particularly to the Jewish people); a year-round convocation center for the preparation of God's people; a permanent community of committed believers out of which ministries will be nurtured and sent forth and finally, a refuge for entire Jewish families whom we expect to be swept into the Kingdom at a soon-coming time.
Except for a sabbatical from late 1985 to early 1987, Katz lived at Ben Israel (when he wasn't ministering worldwide) until his death in 2007 and hosted a summer-long "prophet school" where people from around the world would come, live together in a communal setting and learn from Katz and others about the prophetic life Katz believed Christians were called to."
There are no sugar-coated messages and I believe it's truth that today's believers desperately need to hear. Teachings that stand out for me are 'And They Crucified Him', 'Eternal Rule & Rewards', 'Has Jesus Made You Jewish', 'I Love The Lord . . . But', 'What Is A Good Work'
Blessings to you all
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This guy is a cult leader.. He has all his "members" cut off all contact with everyone, including children,family... To me, that is not the true meaning of "religion" or a "religious person". Not to mention the fact he is a polygamist with three wives.
The FBI, will shut down this operation, and him quite quickly... Hopefully, before they all drink the kool-aid!!!
The FBI, will shut down this operation, and him quite quickly... Hopefully, before they all drink the kool-aid!!!
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Do you people not realize how wrong and incorrect to the true Bible this is???? It isnt a question of Christian or Jew... Its a testament between what is right and wrong. Following a person claiming to be "of god" for HIS own profit is wrong... Correct?? own good and profitThis "man of God" claims to offer and know the truth behind your eternity.... B.S. NO ONE EXCEPT GOD HIMSELF CAN KNOW THAT!!! Unfortunately, in todays' world, there are too many zealots, and these "Men of God" that distort the Bible for their own profit and ego boost. PLEASE, PLEASE...DO NOT FALL VICTIM TO THIS MAN'S SCAMS. HE IS ALREADY BEING MONITORED BY THE FBI FOR POLYGAMY, AND TAX EVATION. Please, if anything... question what he has "taught" you and make an informed decision.... meaning: DO YOUR OWN RESAERCH ON THIS FALSE PROPHET!!!
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yedida
Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!
Good advice! I hope everyone follows it. They have already come out of another failed prophet - you'd think they'd learn! But everyone does say that a sheep is the dumbest creature on God's earth! lol (I pray no one is such a sheep to fall prey to his predatorialness (how's that for a big word??? hehehehe.))
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