Eliyahu ben David

[dhkrause]

... I don't recall at the moment who, but someone on here posted that it was IMPOSSIBLE for E to have driven 80 something miles with a cut brake line. I got the impression this was supposed to be absolute evidence to the affect that E was lying about the matter. Well as I have looked more deeply into this matter, I have found that it is POSSIBLE for E to have driven 80 something miles (depending on a number of factors like what kind of braking system his vehicle has, terrain, etc).

Cole, It was I who made that statement which was shown by the research you posted to be incorrect. That is why in my response to you in post #188 I said your points were well taken and that I had revised post #169 accordingly. Regarding this topic, as you know the immediate brake problems described in program 318 would have resulted from a cut hydraulic brake line, not a cut emergency brake cable. While as you pointed out a car with a cut brake line could possibly still be driven more than 80 miles, the brake fluid would be completely drained from the cut line after at most a few miles of driving causing very noticeable safety problems.

This raises a number of questions mentioned earlier, including but not limited to:
(1) Why did Steve/E not mention until five months later his belief that the brake line was cut on the property on the day of the fire? (2) If he had a brake problem immediately upon leaving the property, why did he drive 80 miles to College Station with his family in the car instead of taking the car to Austin only 25 miles away or having it towed there?

Knowing something about the speakers involved helps in determining how much weight to give to their testimonies. It is clear from the publicly documented information about Steve/E on this forum that he has been anything but forthcoming with his ministry partners about his background, history and parallel ministry on bfree.com. By contrast, one reason John Wyatt’s testimony carries a lot of weight is what we learned when Steve/E first introduced him to the ministry partners and had him describe an incident from his naval career.

John was pursuing a promising career as an officer working in the naval intelligence division when he was given an assignment to gather certain types of intelligence relating to Israel. As he looked into the details, he saw that his performance of these tasks would be contributing to an effort that could undermine the security of Israel. Rather than participate in activities that could bring harm to Israel, he refused to take the assignment, despite the negative consequences to his naval career. From this and everything else I have observed about him, I have absolute confidence in his character and integrity.

His suggestion that you look at the SAM website to see what Barb has written there was for the purpose of helping you get an inkling of the focus of her mind and heart, so that you can know something about her instead of relying solely upon the imaginary profile sketched by Steve/E in program 318. Furthermore, if you listen to the heartwarming discussion between her and Steve/E in the November 28 partner meeting, you will see that he regarded her as a leader with a strong anointing and was still hoping that SAM and Tsiyon could work together fruitfully. (See post #148 on page 15 for the link to the recording, "Tsiyon Partner Meeting, 11/28/11" Barb and E: 40:15 - 1:01:24). There is nothing in her record before or since to cast doubt upon this solid assessment freely given nearly three months after the date of the fire. I hope this bit of background information about the people involved will help you in deciding whose testimony to believe.

 

[truthckr]

John, it is obviously very clear to you in your mind what you believe to be true, but others do not necessarily share all of your perception nor your experiences which you take for granted. Since I wasn't there, there are details I need to know before I am 100% convinced that E/Steve has lied on this matter. So far the evidence has not been 100% convincing to me. For example....I don't recall at the moment who, but someone on here posted that it was IMPOSSIBLE for E to have driven 80 something miles with a cut brake line. I got the impression this was supposed to be absolute evidence to the affect that E was lying about the matter. Well as I have looked more deeply into this matter, I have found that it is POSSIBLE for E to have driven 80 something miles (depending on a number of factors like what kind of braking system his vehicle has, terrain, etc). So why am I being told to look at the SAM website ? This is ridiculous! I don't know her from Adam, and if she is as E has accused her to be, there is obviously not going to be anything on her website that would give any evidence of witchcraft or deception (except in covert form/ symbols as is common with the occult)...the whole point of deception is to have the appearance of good on the outside. So why do you keep trying to point me in that direction ? That kind of response puts red flags up for me!

Now I'm doing my best to understand your side of the story and that is why I've been asking questions. Which is more than I can say for a lot of other people. Where are all the people asking questions ? The answers to the questions I have asked should have been posted a long time ago. If you guys seriously want to help people, you need to be willing to share whatever info you have without giving them a hard time about it. This is a serious matter and needs to be looked at as such, not just expecting people to trust every word you say. Simply trusting people on their word is what got you into this situation in first place right ? So people....ask questions and don't be shy about it ! Or in your case, don't be surprised if anyone asks you details about how you have come to the conclusions you have and want more details than you have already shared. Anyways, I appreciate what you have shared and I need more time to work through this and will probably have more questions to come.

Shalom Aleikhem,
Cole

Cole, I apologize if I gave you any “red flags” as this was not my intent. At no time, are any of us closed to discussion of the truth, but at the same time, we will not dwell on the discussion of a lie. That is the true ploy of the enemy which is not only to cover the truth, but to direct you away from the truth.

Your point is well taken that you do not know the lady from Set Apart Ministries nor do you know their ministry. I, myself, do not know this lady’s background nor have I been personally involved in her ministry. I have attended one of the ministry’s Shabbat services over the phone. I have done enough personal research where I do not believe a ministry that is truly satanic would go to the full extent of being Messianic as this ministry does. What I can tell you from “years” of experience in dealing with satanic activity and the gift of discernment that has been given to me by YHWH, is that there is no evidence of any type of satanic deception that I have observed from my research with regards to SAM. My experience shows that YHWH only allows the Enemy just so much latitude in “appearing” as an angel of light. YHWH draws the line when the satanic work appears to duplicate His. Yeshua also clearly gives a way to discern as well and this is “you shall know them by their fruit”, Matt 7:20. Yeshua also tells us in Gal 5:22 what that evidence is. Yeshua gives us the basis to discern the “wiles of the devil” from YHWH’s work.

My point here is that I believe you can go to quite a few number of Messianic and Christian sites and “find” some type of symbolism or word that does not fit in with your doctrine or liking. We could all easily go on a “witch hunt” and find all sorts of items to question as satanic activity from the various sites. That sounds pretty ridiculous, doesn’t it? Well, that is what I am questioning about Steve/E’s program #318. I believe it is nothing more than a ‘witch hunt” against a person that challenged his authority. Any person that is going to go on “public radio” and broadcast to the world that a person is a witch and their ministry’s symbols are satanic should give solid and verifiable evidence based on the work of the ministry, It would NOT be based on some here say accusations that she cut a brake line or marked their house to be burned. There is no evidence of either and these accusations simply would not hold up in a court of law.

This is why I brought out the lies and inconsistency in his story about what took place that day and the days following. Since you wish to concentrate on the brake issue, I would like for you to consider two points here:
1. Why did Steve/E give a completely different version of why he drove to College Station to my wife and me from what he has told others since he revealed this accusation? I ask this especially when Steve/E had me help him with two other major mechanically break downs with his vehicle (one where I had to drive to College Station). You said maybe he wished not to reveal his brake situation to me, but that is not consistent with how he turned to me previously to assist him. At least, I would have thought he would have my wife and I pray for his journey to College Station for YHWH’s protection.
2. Unfortunately, I need to bring this reason up again. Why did Steve/E tell me “two days” later that the mechanic found he had a cut brake line and Steve/E believed someone in College Station did it? It is very simple. If Steve/E’s version is true, then I have lied about his phone call on Tuesday, September 6th. If his version of the story is true, there would have been NO REASON for him to call me that morning. If he did call, he would have simply told me he got his brake issue fixed and they are fine now.

Cole, the reason I asked you to focus on the SAM ministry is to simply check out what they are involved in. That can be done with any ministry we are not familiar with. A ministry that would go to the extreme to travel 1300 miles to go and mark a property for the enemy to burn and cut a brake line would OBVIOUSLY have other evidence of this type of activity. At least there would be some questionable evidence of what the motives are with the ministry. If I were to label a ministry as satanic, I would give solid evidence of other activity they have been involved in that shows consistency in being satanic.

Another very strong point to Steve/E’s accusation that this lady is a witch being false is the following:

• On November 28th, 2011, at the Tsiyon Partner call that took place (which we have a recording of), Steve/E invites this lady to be part of the call and talks about their ministries working together. There was no question to her about her motives or why she did what she did the day of the fire.

Please explain to me if Steve/E knew “immediately” that is brake line was cut that day and he believes this lady did it and is a witch, WHY would he have her take part in the Tsiyon Partner Call two months later? Maybe, he was trying to get her to say something to accuse her of further? How obscured?

Here is what must be considered here. YHWH’s truth is 100% truth. It is NOT 99% or 95% truth. Besides the inconsistency of the brake story, the most obvious lie in his program is where he states, “4 days later we found our home had not been burned”. This is completely false. I am sure I can produce the documental evidence that our property was on the “burn map” Tuesday, 9/6/11. This is two days later and in fact, during the phone call with Steve/E that morning, I informed him of this. We were saddened by this news. Again, we have a situation where either what Steve/E says is true or what I say is true. This particular situation is not one of misinformation or misinterpretation. Either our property and home was on the burn map two days later or it was not.

Please understand that I gain nothing by lying about this and fabricating my own version of the story. I am nobody. I am not on national radio nor do I have a following. The reason I do this is because YHWH instructed me to do so in Ezekiel. Please consider these verses:
Eze_3:17 "Human being, I have appointed you to be a watchman for the house of Isra'el. When you hear a word from my mouth, you are to warn them for me.
Eze_3:18 If I say to a wicked person, 'You will certainly die'; and you fail to warn him, to speak and warn the wicked person to leave his wicked way and save his life; then that wicked person will die guilty; and I will hold you responsible for his death.
Eze_3:19 On the other hand, if you warn the wicked person, and he doesn't turn from his wickedness or his wicked way, then he will still die guilty; but you will have saved your own life.
Eze_3:20 Similarly, when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and commits wickedness, I will place a stumbling block before him — he will die; because you failed to warn him, he will die in his sin; his righteous acts which he did will not be remembered; and I will hold you responsible for his death.
Eze_3:21 But if you warn the righteous person that a righteous person should not sin, and he doesn't sin; then he will certainly live, because he took the warning; and you too will have saved your life."

His instructions are also to “warn” the Remnant so that they will not fall into false teaching. If I know something to be the truth and do not put forth that truth as YHWH instructs, then YHWH holds me responsible. By withholding the truth, I am as much a liar as those who speak lies.

Shalom

 

[SAM Wis]

[FONT=&quot]We here at SAM appreciate Trthckr and dhkrauses kind words and the eye witness testimony to events the day of the fire.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Several of us on the thread are witnesses to the inconsistencies, half-truths and untruths presented through Tsiyon ministries.
Several have examined both the sound and less than sound interpretations given there.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I have stated our interest (SAM) to check out Tsiyon due to their request for us to work with their partners, our reasons for going to check out Tsiyon and “Eliyahu” in person, our discovery through CF of his legal name and criminal history as well as his polygamous belief and previous ministry and lifestyle, his refusal to acknowledge that history or honorable resolution, and our concern about the need for accountability for teachers of the Word who use international media.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] I made a response when requested to the subsequent accusations “Eliyahu”/Steve has made most publically of me, but also of others in email or phone contacts. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
My most direct comments can be found stated in Posts 54, 77, 132, and 148 in this thread.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In any desire to shoot the messengers please don’t lose sight of the message. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We are to be about our Father’s business: growing in knowledge and relationship with our Messiah.
We are to be watchmen, yet remain humble and teachable.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]All believers need solid teaching and teachers and shepherds as both Moshe and Yeshua noted. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Immature and foolish ones need help to grow and overcome foolishness.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tares need to be recognized but not rooted out. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wolves in sheep’s clothing need to be identified and dispatched in order to protect the flock. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mature believers need to watch out for and exhort those less mature than they.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Our Abba knows what category each of us falls into. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He has made the way of return through Messiah Yeshua. All praise to Him![/FONT]

Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
[FONT=&quot]Psalm 1:1-2[/FONT]

Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.
Psalm 4:4

But let all those that put their trust in thee rejoice: let them ever shout for joy, because thou defendest them: let them also that love thy name be joyful in thee. Psalm 5:11​

 

[2the1whojudgesjustly]

Programs #s 306, 307. & 308 (esp. #308) addresses the white horse rider and E's role regarding the remnant of Israel? This was aired in Nov 2011.

After those programs which are the following programs + E's behavior towards those who question him, that is, his character & responses and his following programs shows inconsistency, misrepresentations, accusations and lies stated as in the program that is accusing SAM of being a witch. The program in which he addresses polygamy didn't sound right either.

Those are the things(which is the intregity & or humbleness and character of a believer in Yeshua) that I look at, to see, if a certain leader is or could be the one that YHWH has chosen to be the white horse leader or the one to lead the remnant back through the 2nd Exodus. (or the anointed ordained leader). I look to see if that leader has those qualities and how he treats his sheep esp. if there is a question or someone is challenging him on something.

Because he lacks in leadership/people skills & deals with those who challenge him in a hostile manner tells me that there is a big problem and that it is time to leave E's/Steve's ministry.

Hi Cherry Blossom,

Eliyahu´s ¨white horse rider¨ interpretation is a complete stretch if you look at the context of the four horsemen. They are the first four seals of God´s judgement, and what they do is describe the condition and events of the world in the very last days. Here´s how they are arranged:

White horseman: conquest
Red horseman: no peace on the earth
black horseman: economic depression
pale horseman: death

The purpose of Eliyahu´s false interpretation of this passage (that it is a person coming to lead us) is intended to take our focus off Yeshua and our expectation of His return.

This is what has become of his followers as a matter of fact. In case you haven´t noticed, Eliyahu´s followers and E himself rarely mention the name of Yeshua. In fact, one could actually assume they have replaced him with Eliyahu.

 

[Cherry Blossom]

I agree that E has the right interpretation of the white horse rider to some extent. I think it points to either an event or a man that will lead the remnant through the 2nd exodus. Either way, I believe the white horse rider has to do with goodness and re-gathering the remnant . "White" itself has to do with righteousness & purity. It can't mean the anti-Christ, as most teachers has taught it this way.

I do know that the God that I serve doesn't change, just like the first exodus, I do believe YHWH will appoint someone to lead the remnant through the 2nd exodus. Whether or not that leader is called a white horse rider or is called some other title, I do believe it will happen somewhat in the same way.

I do agree now at this point, that E isn't the white horse rider nor is he the one to lead the remnant through the 2nd exodus. As I had mentioned in one of my other posts, it appears to me, according to the comments that I had read on the Tsiyon main site regarding the latest comments to the programs that had been aired in the last few months, that E has turned his devoted followers into worshippers of men rather than worshippers of YHWH. That is, in the comments, E seems to be getting most of the praises. Unless you either praise E or agree with his programs, don't expect your comments to be approved or posted by E on the Tsiyon main site.

 

[Cherry Blossom]

Thank you Truthseeker & David for presenting the facts & your eye witness accounts here regarding the accusations against SAM & other facts like the Sabbath breaking(like I had also witnessed myself). You both did a good job explaining it here in this forum. And including everything else & the facts that has been presented here on this forum regarding E identity, criminal, & polygamy past. It is very clear & obvious to me, who is lying & doing the mis representations. This is why I can no longer be a part of working for E's ministry. I pray that others can wake up & see the Truth. YHWH desires for none of his people to be deceived. Praise YHWH for this forum & for revealing the Truth.

 

[2the1whojudgesjustly]

shalom
today i was reading Rev. 12 & 13 and meditating on it. I think it is interesting that the woman who seems to represent the 12 tribes of Israel bc of the crown on her head and also because Yeshua comes from her and is the promise reavealed from the garden of Eden, she is hidden for 3.5 years. The same amount of time the Antimessiah will reign and will cause everone to recieve the mark. I also found it interesting in Rev. 13 that the saints are persecuted and killed from all over the world. It seems to be saying that there is a differnce between the saints and the woman who is hidden in the wilderness (ie 2nd exodus). What do you all think? I know this was a HUGE teaching of E/Steve´s but I really want to know the truth about this 2nd Exodus. If this is true what I am understanding from Rev. 12 & 13 the 2nd Exodus of the 12 tribes will not happen until the Antimessiah is revealed and people are taking his mark. and many saints will also die...love to hear what you think
b´shem Yeshua, shalom

 

[Cherry Blossom]

2the1whojudgesjustly
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shalom
today i was reading Rev. 12 & 13 and meditating on it. I think it is interesting that the woman who seems to represent the 12 tribes of Israel bc of the crown on her head and also because Yeshua comes from her and is the promise reavealed from the garden of Eden, she is hidden for 3.5 years. The same amount of time the Antimessiah will reign and will cause everone to recieve the mark. I also found it interesting in Rev. 13 that the saints are persecuted and killed from all over the world. It seems to be saying that there is a differnce between the saints and the woman who is hidden in the wilderness (ie 2nd exodus). What do you all think? I know this was a HUGE teaching of E/Steve´s but I really want to know the truth about this 2nd Exodus. If this is true what I am understanding from Rev. 12 & 13 the 2nd Exodus of the 12 tribes will not happen until the Antimessiah is revealed and people are taking his mark. and many saints will also die...love to hear what you think
b´shem Yeshua, shalom

This wouldn't be the thread to discuss this topic on. So perhaps we can discuss this topic on Rev. somewhere else. However, I do have different thoughts on this matter regarding your post.

This thread is for EBD/Steve.

 

[Elyprince]

Hi there,

It does appear that there are two camps and the second one (the woman) appears only at the very last days before Yeshua returns. It seems reasonable that this camp would be the 144,000 who are sealed.

Is there is a tendency to believe one is not a member of the first camp, since they, being the saints, suffer and die during the great tribulation as well as the years leading up to it? Could this be why one is attracted to teachings like Eliyahu´s, that being it makes one feel safe like the woman of Revelation?

 

[GuardianShua]

Michael is the white horse rider in Rev 6, And Yahshua is the white horse rider in Rev 19. In Revelation there are two different women being spoken about. The one woman is a harlot that joins Paganism to Judaism, the other woman that gives birth is Israel. There are also two different dragons being spoken of. One is Leviatan, and the other is Behemoth; the dragon of the sea, and the dragon of the earth, or land.

 

[SAM Wis]

Hi there,


Is there is a tendency to believe one is not a member of the first camp, since they, being the saints, suffer and die during the great tribulation as well as the years leading up to it? Could this be why one is attracted to teachings like Eliyahu´s, that being it makes one feel safe like the woman of Revelation?

Good thought, Elyprince! Appreciate your question as to whether or not this is an "attractive" aspect to teachings like Steve/E's. Being a part of a "special company" is always attractive to those who are fearful or looking for some unique commendation. Any teacher that can convey a feeling of safety in following them WILL find followers, for good or for ill, I think.

Still, if one looks at the 7 assemblies, among other places, it becomes pretty clear that belief and honoring Messiah is a guarantee of spiritual life, but not necessarily physical life. (Smyrna)

 

[dngerousbeauty]

I was searching around trying to find out some background information on Eliyahu ben David. I was wondering if he is jewish, or where his understanding of Hebrew comes from. Can anyone help me in my quest?

I heard his radio show a few times and what I hear sounds interesting, but I'd like to know more about the messenger before I place too much stock in the message. His website doesn't really offer the information I seek.

Your help in this matter is appreciated. I'm a stickler for knowing the source of things, especially information and perspectives.

This man has a VERY distorted sense of reality. What do you want to know.... I can tell you ALOT!

 

[dngerousbeauty]

I checked out several google results and couldn't find out much. What I did discover would have me go on to the next person.
He says he's Jewish but he uses the four-letter name of God (that doesn't automatically make him a liar, he could have been a seculer Jew before conversion, but I don't think practicing Jews use the Name like that). He also uses the "name" Yahshua which isn't a Hebrew name/word so that is suspicious. (Being Jewish he should know the correct name. There is a cult called Sacred Name. These people use the name of God and the spelling of Yahshua.) Also, he has jumped on a very popular bandwagon, eschatology. Frankly, I'd move on.

Perhaps one of our Jewish friends will add some further info on the use of the four-letter name (I don't even like typing them out, sorry), whether once they have received Yeshua they feel it's now okay to say/write out the Name

You asked for thoughts, so this is just my opinion with what little info I found available. But there are many good teachers out there, keep on looking.

 

[dngerousbeauty]

 

[truthckr]

He was born again southern baptist till the day he found out he was of jewish lineage... Sh*t, I couldve told him that, he looks like a jew. Anyhow, so now theyre jews for Jesus, but theyre completely insane!

Dngerousbeauty,

Not sure what your point is here, but if it is to speak against Jews, you are on the wrong forum. Also, you need to read this entire thread. We have already documented who Eliyahu is and what his background is. He was not Southern Baptist, but rather a converted Jehovah Witness.

If you wish to comment, please keep your comments factual and courteous.

 

[dngerousbeauty]

Not bashing anyone, and was referring back to post re: David and his son Bryan Crigger

 

[smarternow77]

Thanks for posting, dngerousbeauty. It sounds as if you have not had a pleasant history concerning this relationship. If you are indeed Steve's stepson, I'm sure you have a different perspective from those of us who have felt deceived by his internet 'teaching'. It seems the greatest current damage can be done to many lives by the fact someone can hide their true identity while making 'whatever' claims and creating a following. My prayer is for the very best for you in your life.

 

[2the1whojudgesjustly]

hi dngerous beauty,

I am thankful for you posting here because it seems as you too would be a good witness as to who Steve Butt/Eliyahu Ben David and Dawn ¨ben David¨REALLY are.

I´m not sure if you have read through the whole thread (there´s alot) but I was just wondering if you could confirm some of the conclusions we have come to here. (it´s taken alot of time and digging and since you are his stepdaughter it sounds like you can confirm alot firsthand.

These are the conclusions we have come to here:

-Steve has been an elder or still is an elder with the Jehovah´s witnesses (He has never renounced this)

-Steve was a pastor/counselor for people exiting occults at some sort of church after that while he was married to Diane and has 3 children from that marriage


-During that job he became polygamous and took mary-ann morningstar as a second wife

-he then kidnapped Diane´s children from her and was convicted? and so was mary-ann morningstar

-he then started bfree internet ministry to promote polygamyand moved to Utah

-he then took Dawn as wife #3, a stepson, and had twins with her

-he then married a 4th wife ??

-his marriages fell apart he moved with Dawn to Oregon and then they started Tsiyon.org ministry and changed his name

I think his personal history has become an issue for many of us because he chose to keep everything hidden and has never showed any changes from his previous behaviors-life. As far as I´m concerned he seems to be the same person he was before just under a different name to get money from people in disguise.

I realize that somehow you were tangled in this mess. I pray that somehow you can really find the truth of who YHVH is and find his love and healing in your life as I´m sure many of us can confess he has done for us. Yeshua said there would be many false shepherds and pastors and we would know them by their fruit. The fruit of your stepfather´s life and behavior has proved him to be one of these. May the God of the Bible give you his peace and shalom tonight.

 

[Cherry Blossom]

I believe E & Dawn moved away from Oregon at some point before coming to Tx and I think the Tsiyon ministry started while they were living in Tx. B/c they had lived in their home in College Station TX for many yrs. Tsiyon programing archives goes back to January 2006 when they aired their first program. They were already living in Tx at that point when Tsiyon's first program came out, from what I understand.

 

[truthckr]

Not bashing anyone, and was referring back to post re: David and his son Bryan Crigger

Dngerousbeauty,

I wish to apology to you as I did not note in your first post where you state that Eliyahu was your stepfather. You probably know more than I do. My post was not to discourage you from posting, but to keep our thread as positive as possible with facts and insights. If there are some facts that you can share that would clear up what has been posted here thus far, that would be wonderful.

I agree with smarternow77 in praying that YHWH has revealed truth in your life and you are abiding in His Love now.