Eliyahu ben David

[Cherry Blossom]

Thank you SAM. However, I do want to make one thing clear. I wasn't close to E and his wife at all. (not even close). I wanted to build a good relationship with them, but they didn't want that in return, it was obvious & that was part of the problem . That was one of the red flags. (Even though we had good conversations at times coupled with occasional fun activities). They never felt like family. But I still care for them anyway. I was very fond of their children though and enjoyed their company & we did lots of fun activities together.

 

[SAM Wis]

Thank you SAM. However, I do want to make one thing clear. I wasn't close to E and his wife at all. (not even close). I wanted to build a good relationship with them, but they didn't want that in return, it was obvious & that was part of the problem . That was one of the red flags. (Even though we had good conversations at times coupled with occasional fun activities). They never felt like family. But I still care for them anyway. I was very fond of their children though and enjoyed their company & we did lots of fun activities together.

Thanks for additional clarity, Cherry Blossom...
so one might say you were close (in proximity, near by)
but NOT close (in relationship.) Does that work?

 

[Cole Thompson]

Just wondering what these inconsistencies are. I've been listening to E's programs for over a year now and am concernced

 

[dhkrause]

Just wondering what these inconsistencies are. I've been listening to E's programs for over a year now and am concerned.

You have reason to be concerned. As an example, see #169 on page 17. His accusation against Barb of Set Apart Ministries has been shown to be a bald-faced lie. Servants of Yeshua do not do such things, let alone a chosen leader for the second Exodus.

 

[Cole Thompson]

I did a google search on what happens when brake lines are cut. Here's some of what I found:

Any car built past 1968 has dual circuit masters, which should (but don't always) retain some braking power when one circuit is lost.


If the brakes are completely cut for front and back, the vehicle is not going to stop since there will be no line pressure. Depending on how badly its been cut you may have some line pressure until all the brake fluid has leaked out which doesn't take long.

However, if you cut the lines for the front, your stopping will be reduced significantly since your front brakes are 70% of your stopping power. the lines are steel and yes you can cut right through it easily with a wire cutter.

If the emergency brake cable has not been cut you will have some stopping power since its a different system from the hydraulic lines. The e-brake only works for the rear brakes only so you will at most have 20-30% or your normal stopping power.
The e-brake will work but usually takes 2 or 3 times as long to stop (if not more) since it only affects the rear brakes.

With all this in mind, if I understand this correctly, it may very well be possible to drive 80 mile or more with the front brake line cut.
​

 

[Cole Thompson]

In a post on the "Straight Dope Message Board" someone asked the question:

"How far could you drive if your brake lines were cut ?" One person reported:

84.06 miles on the Interstate. At least that was my experience.

When they replaced the engine in my car, they must have removed the brake line and never tightened the line to the caliper correctly. I noticed that the brakes were "spongey" right away, but they seemed to remain consistently so at each intersection. It's a big old car, so the brakes aren't as responsive as most of us are used to anyway. I followed my girlfriend, and we agreed that I would leave a huge gap between our cars, to accommodate my any brake issues which could "develop."

 

[Cole Thompson]

So anyways, I'm just saying...if it's mechanically impossible for E's vehicle to drive 80 miles then that information is worth mentioning as physical evidence against E's word, otherwise this cannot be used as evidence to the contrary, barring of course any possibility that YHWH may actually love E and his family and have assisted them to safety.

 

[truthckr]

So anyways, I'm just saying...if it's mechanically impossible for E's vehicle to drive 80 miles then that information is worth mentioning as physical evidence against E's word, otherwise this cannot be used as evidence to the contrary, barring of course any possibility that YHWH may actually love E and his family and have assisted them to safety.

Cole,
The issue is not whether Steve/E drove 80 miles on a cut brake line. I do not believe he did. The real truth with the brake line story is that on Tuesday morning, September 6th, Steve/E called me from College Station to inform me that he JUST found out that his brake line had been cut after taking his vehicle to the mechanic that morning for another issue his vehicle was having. Steve/E was obviously upset by this news and he told me that morning that he suspected someone in College Station may have recognized his vehicle and cut the line there. He believed this because they use to live close to College Station for at least 5 years. Steve/E gave no indication that he believed his brake line had been cut prior to arriving in College Station on Monday, September 5th. In addition, if he believed this was done by a "witch" then why would he have told me that he believe this was an attack from the enemy and that someone in College Station cut it?

What the truth here is that Steve/E has fabricated the "witch story" about Set Apart Ministries and added the cut brake line as "fuel to the fire". During our time with them in Texas from September to November, 2011, there was never a time that he shared with me or any other Ministry Leaders that the brake line was cut on the property. Steve/E's also never shared his concern about "a witch" marking his property to be destroyed by the fire while we were there.

I have one question to your information about it being possible to drive 80 miles on a cut brake line. WHY WOULD YOU? What husband/father would drive his vehicle 80 miles with a "supposedly" cut brake line with his family in the car? Personally, I would NEVER do that to my family. I would first drive by myself to the nearest location (or have it towed) to get it fixed while leaving my family somewhere where they would be safe. I would not risk endangering them if I knew my brake line was supposedly cut. An interesting side note here with regard to taking the vehicle to the nearest location, is that Austin is 60 miles closer to where he was that day of the fire. The simple question here is why would you drive 80 miles when you could drive 25 miles to get it fixed?

The truth is that Steve/E needlessly lied and he DID NOT know his brake line was cut until Tuesday morning after the fire. There are a lot of things that can be excused or explained away, but this story about a "witch" is not one of them. I am praying Steve/E repents of this false accusation.

 

[Henaynei]

Just wondering what these inconsistencies are. I've been listening to E's programs for over a year now and am concernced

If you are truly interested, please read back through the thread. The facts and inconsistencies documented by persons directly involved in the ministry.

 

[dhkrause]

So anyways, I'm just saying...if it's mechanically impossible for E's vehicle to drive 80 miles then that information is worth mentioning as physical evidence against E's word, otherwise this cannot be used as evidence to the contrary, barring of course any possibility that YHWH may actually love E and his family and have assisted them to safety.

Cole, Your points are well taken. I have revised #169 on page 17 to add clarity on the issue of brake damage, in keeping with John's (truthckr's) eye witness account. My conclusions remain the same.

- David Krause

 

[Cole Thompson]

Is there any way you can write this all out in a clear chronological sequence of events ? This is giving me a headache trying to put this all together with the dates jumping around all over the place. I apologize, but I'm really trying to make sense of all of this.
e.g.

4Sep2011- Fire. In the program he states that he noticed a problem with his brakes immediately.
5Sep2011- E drives 80 miles to ? to get the brakes fixed (with his family in the car).
etc...

 

[Cole Thompson]

Dave, Again I'm seeing inconsistencies in this story. For example you stated" In program #318 airing on February 3, 2012, five months after the fire on September 4, 2011, Steve/E suddenly insinuated that one of the two invited guests that day had stepped outside during their visit and cut the brake cable on his vehicle." and also "No mention is made of a brake problem being noticed on the day of the fire as they fled in their vehicles. John (truthckr on this forum) reports that on Tuesday, September 6, two days after the fire, Steve/E called him to say that a mechanic checking his vehicle had just reported that the brake cable was cut cleanly clear through."

I put them in bold to see more easily. I'm no mechanic, but from what I understand, the brake cable and the brake lines are different things. The brake lines are in reference to the hydraulic lines, the brake cable is in reference to the emergency brake as explained here by the "How it Works" site:

A car’s handbrake is the lever to a completely mechanical braking system, which will bypass the primary hydraulic system if it fails. When the handbrake is applied, the brake cable passes through an intermediate lever, to increase the force of your pull; this force is then split evenly between your brakes by an equaliser.
Typically, a mechanical lever is added to the existing disc or drum brakes on the car. In drum brakes, the handbrake cable runs directly to a lever on the brake shoes. In disc brakes an additional lever and corkscrew is added to the existing caliper piston. When the handbrake is pulled, the lever forces the corkscrew against the piston, which would normally be activated by the hydraulic foot pedal system.
Although it is reassuring to have a secondary braking system for emergencies, the primary use of the handbrake tends to be when parking as they remain engaged until a release button is pressed; stopping your car potentially rolling away. This is good practice, as it keeps your brake cable from seizing up, ready for when you really need it. In fact, using your handbrake to stop a moving car can actually damage the brake system, so it is best to save this for real emergencies!


So I'm just trying to get this story straight.....did E say that it was the brake cable that was cut or a brake line ? or both ? Or is it that this is what E actually stated, possibly not realizing the difference ?

 

[truthckr]

Is there any way you can write this all out in a clear chronological sequence of events ? This is giving me a headache trying to put this all together with the dates jumping around all over the place. I apologize, but I'm really trying to make sense of all of this.
e.g.

4Sep2011- Fire. In the program he states that he noticed a problem with his brakes immediately.
5Sep2011- E drives 80 miles to ? to get the brakes fixed (with his family in the car).
etc...

Cole,
I will outline the timeline with Steve/E's version first and then I will give the facts as I know them:

Sunday, 9/4/11: Day of the Fire
Steve/E's Version: Steve/E states he noticed his brake line is cut immediately that day.

Fact: He drives (with his family) around the city that afternoon and evening. My wife and I were with them most of the afternoon until my wife and I went to the Evacuation Center. Steve/E and his family went to stay at one of the ministry leader's home (that was not affected by the fire that day). He never made any mention to us of any mechanical issues with his vehicle while we were with him.

Monday, 9/5/11:
Steve/E's Version: (Based on his email response to a partner). He had to drive to College Station to get his brake line fixed as there was no facility available in our city due to the fire.

Fact: Steve/E and his family drive to the Evacuation Center that morning to see my wife and I. At that time, he informs us that they need to drive to College Station to get medical supplies for their son, Isaac. He says they will stay in a motel there for the next few days to get the medical situation worked out. He did not say anything to us about driving to College Station to get mechanical work done.

Tuesday, 9/6/11:
Steve/E's Version: He mentions that his brakes are fixed in College Station.

Fact: Steve calls me in the morning to inform me that he took his vehicle in for mechanical work and the mechanic discovered the cut brake line. He was very upset and informed me that he believed this may have been done by someone "who recognized his vehicle" in College Station. He did mention that he believed this was an attack of the enemy, but he was not sure who did it.


After 9/6/11, there were no comments or discussion with any ministry leaders or partners (that I am aware of) of his cut brake line being done by a supposed "witch" at his property on 9/4/11. I was personally unaware of this version of the story until I heard the broadcast of Program #318 on 02/03/12 (5 months after the fire).

 

[truthckr]

So I'm just trying to get this story straight.....did E say that it was the brake cable that was cut or a brake line ? or both ? Or is it that this is what E actually stated, possibly not realizing the difference ?

Steve/E does uses the term "brake cable" in his program. Although I do not have a recording of his call to me on 9/6/11, I distinctly remember him using the term "brake line" and that is what I thought was cut. In all the facts I have stated I have used the term "brake line". He also states in his program that he "immediately" took his car to a brake specialist.

As shown, in my timeline in the previous post, he did not drive to College Station until the next day. My simple question is if this was an issue for Steve/E and his vehicle why would he have waited until Tuesday, 9/6/11 to inform me?

The real issue here is not whether it is was a cable or line that was cut. It is that he falsely accuses a lady of doing this on the property when he clearly told me it believed it was done in College Station. He either lied to me that day or he is lying about this accusation of when it was done. I believe he is lying not based on this one issue, but based on the many issues I outlined in my previous posts.

Cole, why don't you spend time checking out Set Apart Ministries to see if you find any evidence of satanic activity or "witches" rather than debating over a brake cable or line? When you discover that there is no basis to Steve/E's false accusations about this person, then you will easily see the inconsistency to his other statements and versions of what took place that day.

 

[Cole Thompson]

John -When someone says "Immediately" that usually does mean something like "right now". However sometimes people do stretch words to the limit and/or generalize. The very next day is pretty close to immediate in some situations. Also, I can see how it may have been more important for E to have personally made sure his son had his medical supplies first before attending to the brake problem.

One possible scenario that comes to my mind is that with the kind of secrecy E has displayed in regard to his past, his views and activities in polygamy, etc, it is not by a wide stretch of the imagination that if someone had cut his brake line (has this been confirmed?) that he would probably not tell you or anyone else certain things because he is still trying to work out in his mind exactly who did this and when. It makes sense to me that he would only give certain info to certain people to see what their reactions might be as part of his effort to figure out who cut the brake line. So it could be possible that he suspect you and/or others and so kept some info to himself. Does that make any sense ?

I'm also wondering....on 9/5/11, when E drove to see you and your wife, did you ever see E driving the vehicle ? If so, was the vehicle driving slower than normal ? Anything unusual ?

 

[dhkrause]

Dave, Again I'm seeing inconsistencies in this story. For example you stated" In program #318 airing on February 3, 2012, five months after the fire on September 4, 2011, Steve/E suddenly insinuated that one of the two invited guests that day had stepped outside during their visit and cut the brake cable on his vehicle." and also "No mention is made of a brake problem being noticed on the day of the fire as they fled in their vehicles. John (truthckr on this forum) reports that on Tuesday, September 6, two days after the fire, Steve/E called him to say that a mechanic checking his vehicle had just reported that the brake cable was cut cleanly clear through."

I put them in bold to see more easily. I'm no mechanic, but from what I understand, the brake cable and the brake lines are different things. The brake lines are in reference to the hydraulic lines, the brake cable is in reference to the emergency brake ...
... So I'm just trying to get this story straight.....did E say that it was the brake cable that was cut or a brake line ? or both ? Or is it that this is what E actually stated, possibly not realizing the difference ?

Cole,
John (truthckr) quotes Steve quoting the mechanic on September 6 using the term, brake line. Five months later on Program #318 (38:15-38:44), Steve quotes the mechanic using the term, brake cable. However, in the same breath he says, "Immediately we had brake problems." His quote right after getting the mechanic's report is more likely to be accurate than the one five months later. When making the program recording on February 3, Steve evidently was not aware of the distinction between these terms. As you know from your research, the "immediate brake problems" described would have resulted from a cut hydraulic line, not a cut emergency brake cable.
(In my comment #169 above, I accurately quoted the word, "cable" used by Steve in program #318. However, in describing John's account of the September 6 call, I should have used the word, "line". I have now corrected this.)

 

[Cole Thompson]

Dave and John...Thank you for taking the time to explain things. I really appreciate it =)

 

[dhkrause]

When someone says "Immediately" that usually does mean something like "right now". However sometimes people do stretch words to the limit and/or generalize. The very next day is pretty close to immediate in some situations. Also, I can see how it may have been more important for E to have personally made sure his son had his medical supplies first before attending to the brake problem.

Based on John's eye witness account as a participant in these events, the first indication or mention of a brake problem was after Steve's arrival in College Station.

Five months later in program 318 is the first time Steve mentions "immediately" having problems, and the first time he levels charges against his invited guests:
"Immediately we had brake problems. I took my car to the brake specialist. I had to do that almost immediately. My car needed brake service. But the very first thing that the mechanic said to me, he came out and spoke to me, and he was alarmed and he says, 'Somebody cut your brake cable.'" (38:15-38:44)
Recently he wrote, "A main reason I went to CS was to get my brakes fixed, because that wasn't possible in the area near the fire."

This whole account created five months after these events is in drastic conflict with the true history which John has recounted.

 

[truthckr]

J

I'm also wondering....on 9/5/11, when E drove to see you and your wife, did you ever see E driving the vehicle ? If so, was the vehicle driving slower than normal ? Anything unusual ?

Yes, I did see him drive his vehicle that morning as I helped to take the kids back to the vehicle. He drove the vehicle very normally when he left.

Again, my question to you is why are you focused on this issue? We could trivialize all day long over whether it was a cut line or cable and when it was done or not done. This has nothing to do with the real issue here.

The real issue is the accusation of Steve/E that Set Apart Ministries is a satanic ministry and the lady is a “witch” and if Steve/E is teaching truth or teaching falsely. If there is any evidence to truth to Steve's accusation in Program #318, then you have a reason for these questions. If they are false, then there is no reason to look for any element of truth in the matter of the brake line. I can assure you there is none as his whole story was fabricated in the first place.

I am an eyewitness of the events that took place that week. It is really very simple – either Steve/E is lying or I am lying. Let YHWH be the judge.

 

[Cole Thompson]

John, it is obviously very clear to you in your mind what you believe to be true, but others do not necessarily share all of your perception nor your experiences which you take for granted. Since I wasn't there, there are details I need to know before I am 100% convinced that E/Steve has lied on this matter. So far the evidence has not been 100% convincing to me. For example....I don't recall at the moment who, but someone on here posted that it was IMPOSSIBLE for E to have driven 80 something miles with a cut brake line. I got the impression this was supposed to be absolute evidence to the affect that E was lying about the matter. Well as I have looked more deeply into this matter, I have found that it is POSSIBLE for E to have driven 80 something miles (depending on a number of factors like what kind of braking system his vehicle has, terrain, etc). So why am I being told to look at the SAM website ? This is ridiculous! I don't know her from Adam, and if she is as E has accused her to be, there is obviously not going to be anything on her website that would give any evidence of witchcraft or deception (except in covert form/ symbols as is common with the occult)...the whole point of deception is to have the appearance of good on the outside. So why do you keep trying to point me in that direction ? That kind of response puts red flags up for me!

Now I'm doing my best to understand your side of the story and that is why I've been asking questions. Which is more than I can say for a lot of other people. Where are all the people asking questions ? The answers to the questions I have asked should have been posted a long time ago. If you guys seriously want to help people, you need to be willing to share whatever info you have without giving them a hard time about it. This is a serious matter and needs to be looked at as such, not just expecting people to trust every word you say. Simply trusting people on their word is what got you into this situation in first place right ? So people....ask questions and don't be shy about it ! Or in your case, don't be surprised if anyone asks you details about how you have come to the conclusions you have and want more details than you have already shared. Anyways, I appreciate what you have shared and I need more time to work through this and will probably have more questions to come.

Shalom Aleikhem,
Cole