Eat the Bread of Life and Not Die - John 6:50

Mountainmike

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All of which is not symbolic, as johns taught it is real flesh and blood. And everyone else for the next 1500 years. including the “ pillar and foundation of truth”, the church! Even Luther ( and a large proportion of lutherans) , and many other Protestants believe in the real flesh .

Only those detached by 1500 years with none of the history or context to know, want to pretend it is other than literal! Believing only you / your group know better, that the Lord allowed his church to go off the rails ti you / your ( comparatively small) group came along very recently.

That is a bold place to be.

Tell me. If it is just a symbol, how can someone die profaning it?
Why did all Jesus followers leave when he spoke of eating his flesh? Do you think they all got it wrong too?

To quote St Bernadette “ I’m called to give witness to the truth, I’m not called to make you believe it” !


Jesus did use symbolic language:

Matthew 26:27-29 "(27) And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; (28) For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." Jesus first refers to the content of the cup as "blood" but at the same time and in the same context Jesus calls the content "fruit of the vine". The content of the cup did not change for it was always fruit of the vine.

Also, in verse 27 the word "cup" is used figuratively for the content of the cup, therefore not literally drink the cup itself but drink the content of the cup.
"And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;"
Clearly a metonymy is being employed, a figure of speech where one thing (cup) stands for another (contents of cup). The "fruit of the vine" is literally the "it" which is also the cup itself.

Luke 22:17 "And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:" Again, a figure of speech is employed for "it" is not the literal cup itself that was to be divided but the content of the cup. (divide - diamerizō - to cleave asunder, cut in pieces; to be divided into opposing parts cf Matthew 27:35). Therefore the language of John 6:54 can and would be equally symbolic.

Also:
John 6:52 "The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
Those Jews strove for they incorrectly understood the words of Christ literally as did those disciples John 6:60. If those disciples understood what Christ said as literally eating Christ's flesh and murmured about it, Jesus points out as to what would they do when He physically left them ascending above, John 6:61-62.

So Christ's words are not referring to the literal, actual physical presence of Christ's blood or flesh. Luke 22:18-19 instructs disciples to take literal bread and fruit of the vine and "this do in remembrance of me". In "remebrance of Me" means Christ would not always have a physical flesh and blood presence among the disciples, hence no literal flesh and blood present for them to eat or drink. So what would those disciples do who took 'eat His flesh" literally when Christ physically left them ascending above?

Comparing two verses:

John 6:54 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

V54 says eating His flesh gives eternal life yet v63 says Christ's words give life. Hence Jesus "words" are equivalent to his eating & drinking His flesh and blood. Therefore eating flesh & drinking blood of v54 cannot be taken literally. After the misunderstanding of literally eating flesh by the Jews (v52) and disciples (vs 60-61) Christ puts back in perspective for them what is meant by eating flesh, that being, "eating flesh" (v54) = eating His "words" (v63) not literally eating His flesh.

Summary:

--John 6:32-33 Jesus is the "bread" God sent from heaven.
--John 6:35 those who continue to come to Christ (the Bread) shall never hunger and those that continue to believe shall never thirst. (to "drink Jesus" is to believe His word, not literally drink Jesus or His blood, John 7:37-38).
--John 6:37-40 explains verse 35, those who "see" and "believe" may have everlasting life (never hunger or thirst)
How do men come to Christ, the Bread?
--John 6:44-45 by being taught, hearing and learning gives everlasting life.
--John 6:48 thus Jesus is the true bread.

The context is not about the Lord's Supper but the need to accept Jesus as the Bread God sent to the world, to "eat and drink" Him, that is, not literally eat and drink His flesh and blood but to believe His words to have eternal life. The whole context starts with v27 when Jesus tells them to work for the "meat" that endures unto everlasting life. Working for this "meat" refers to believing the words of Christ that He gives men and not literal meat to eat, not His literal flesh and blood to eat.

Final comment on John 6:54:

"Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
The verbs 'eateth' and 'drinketh' are present tense verbs denoting an action occuring in real time on a continuing basis meaning Christ's disciples were to be "eating" flesh and "drinking" His blood at that moment in real time and continue to eat and drink His flesh and blood. But the disciples were not literally eating His flesh and blood at that time nor did they literally continue in a process to eat His flesh.

Again, as noted already, the "eating" and "drinking" results in having eternal life. Christ's "words" also results in life, verse 63. Therefore eating His flesh (figurative) is eqivalent to taking in, receiving His words (literal).

Those who continue to receive His words have life, it's NOT continue to literally eat His flesh have life.

John 6:56 those who eat Christ's flesh results in Christ abiding in them and they abiding in Christ. Parallel verse to John 6:56 is 1 John 3:24 where keeping Christ's commands likewise results in one abiding in Christ and Christ abiding in him just as in John 6:56.

Hence eating Christ's flesh is symbolic and equivalent to literally keeping Christ's commands (words).
 
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Jaxxi

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Watch the doubters jump around on this one:

Jesus made the clear distinction of not dying like the fathers in the wilderness.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven,
that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
So what is the question?
 
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GraceInChrist

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Luke 18:10-14

King James Version

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 
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Jaxxi

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Luke 18:10-14

King James Version

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.

12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
What is the question? I don't understand
 
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fhansen

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20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference
Yes! So now this needs to be fleshed out. You've been viewing it through the lens of a skewed, novel gospel. The law cannot possibly justify us, or make us righteous, because it's just a set of external rules and we have no righteousness of our own to begin with, until we’re under grace where we’re changed internally.
“Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.” Matt 23:26

Under grace, now in communion with God, our righteousness already exceeds that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law (Matt 5). Meanwhile the law serves a very critical purpose, that of a tutor demonstrating that we’re failures at fulfilling it. Man needs something more; man needs grace, man needs God, relationship with Him, in order to be the being he was created to be, in order to possess the righteousness he was made for; he was never created to be a sinner after all. So:
“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.” Phil 3:9

We’re justified freely but the difference is that the justice/righteousness is not merely declared or imputed but given/imparted to us. And then we’re expected to walk in that gift, in that righteousness. Therefore we can lose our state of justice by living unjustly, returning to the flesh, failing to remain in Christ and live by the Spirit. Salvation, then, is worked out together with He who works in us as we’re expected to do the best we can with whatever we’ve been given and even grow in it as we “invest our talents”, now enabled by the Spirit. God wants more for us than many realize but that involves us doing our part, however small, for our good, because that's how God wants it; Jesus’ burden is light.

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:4

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

This all begins, from man's side of things, with faith, in response to grace.
 
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fhansen

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What part of freely dont you undestand. And which part I will lose none you dont understand. The bible is simple, nevertheless you mix verses because the love of the truth is not within your heart.
Hmm...need to be looking a bit closer in the mirror there my friend.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Yes! So now this needs to be fleshed out. You've been viewing it through the lens of a skewed, novel gospel. The law cannot possibly justify us, or make us righteous, because it's just a set of external rules and we have no righteousness of our own to begin with, until we’re under grace where we’re changed internally.
“Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.” Matt 23:26

Under grace, now in communion with God, our righteousness already exceeds that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law (Matt 5). Meanwhile the law serves a very critical purpose, that of a tutor demonstrating that we’re failures at fulfilling it. Man needs something more; man needs grace, man needs God, relationship with Him, in order to be the being he was created to be, in order to possess the righteousness he was made for; he was never created to be a sinner after all. So:
“…not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.” Phil 3:9

We’re justified freely but the difference is that the justice/righteousness is not merely declared or imputed but given/imparted to us. And then we’re expected to walk in that gift, in that righteousness. Therefore we can lose our state of justice by living unjustly, returning to the flesh, failing to remain in Christ and live by the Spirit. Salvation, then, is worked out together with He who works in us as we’re expected to do the best we can with whatever we’ve been given and even grow in it as we “invest our talents”, now enabled by the Spirit. God wants more for us than many realize but that involves us doing our part, however small, for our good, because that's how God wants it; Jesus’ burden is light.

"And so he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Rom 8:4

"Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:12-13

This all begins, from man's side of things, with faith, in response to grace.

We’re justified freely but the difference is that the justice/righteousness is not merely declared or imputed but given/imparted to us

Which is it then, works or grace. If it was expected to us to walk in the law. Then it would be debt.
How stubborn you need to be, to turn grace into lordship.
Your gospel is a curse and you are not a son of God.

Romans 4
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

If you are looking for works in your life, you are doubting the grace of God. Faith is believing what we can not see, not lordship and bondage to good works. If we could look at them it would not be from above but from below.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Hmm...need to be looking a bit closer in the mirror there my friend.
Galatians 4
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Are doing your lordship service as a free men without the condemnation of hell or are you serving the lord with bondage into lordship salvation? Guess what happened to the son of Hagar.
 
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GraceInChrist

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Hmm...need to be looking a bit closer in the mirror there my friend.
I will remark you this, a man can live like the devil and if he has faith he will go to heaven. If you reject grace you will not inherit the kingdom. And you will die on your sins.
 
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Butterball1

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All of which is not symbolic, as johns taught it is real flesh and blood. And everyone else for the next 1500 years. including the “ pillar and foundation of truth”, the church! Even Luther ( and a large proportion of lutherans) , and many other Protestants believe in the real flesh .

Only those detached by 1500 years with none of the history or context to know, want to pretend it is other than literal! Believing only you / your group know better, that the Lord allowed his church to go off the rails ti you / your ( comparatively small) group came along very recently.

That is a bold place to be.

Tell me. If it is just a symbol, how can someone die profaning it?
Why did all Jesus followers leave when he spoke of eating his flesh? Do you think they all got it wrong too?

To quote St Bernadette “ I’m called to give witness to the truth, I’m not called to make you believe it” !
I pointed out in detail the very symbolic language Jesus used. I addressed the reaction of the Jews and disciples at their musunderstanding of Jesus' words and how Jesus then gave further perspective on how 'eating His flesh" is equivalent to receiving His word. John 6 is not about the Lord's Supper. You have given no proof otherwise.

THe church of Christ has been around since about 33 AD, Acts 2 at Pentecost. History shows organized Catholicism did not show up to about third or fourth century, far too late to be the church of the first century that began in Acts 2. Catholicism is just another man made denmomination, older than most other denominations but a man made denmomination none the less that deviated from Biblical truth as with transubstantiation among many many other things as wrong structure, original sin, infant baptism, etc etc.
 
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The Liturgist

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No, the bible is clear. You need to believe in your heart and confess with your mouth. The lord Jesus Christ is the word of God, and the words of the gospel has his spirit. When we accept the gospel by grace within our hearts and confess it. The holy ghost is within us, and the bread of life is living within ourselves. The kingdom of God doesnt come by eating or by obsevation, its within us. Repent and trust the gospel instead of mens doctrine.
If you refuse do to the will of the Father, you will hear depart from I never knew you.

Acts 16
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

If your theology was right, it would say. Eat from the bread of life that is the eucharist.

You are believing another gospel. One that doesnt have eternal life.

The eucharist also never had his blood. In the same way the bible doesnt have his flesh, or the gospel has skin. Those three are Jesus Christ, but none has his flesh and bones. The bread is given by faith when we accept him within our hearts. The eucharist is a celebration of his name and his victory. Not the way to salvation.

That doctrine is called memorialism and is rejected by most Christians including the major Protestant denominations (Anglicanism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Methodists, Moravians, and so on).
 
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Is it a biscuit? I always call it bread.

The Roman Rite of the Roman Catholic Church and some Protestants use unleavened wafers. The Armenians use freshly baked unleavened bread. The other Orthodox churches and many Protestants use leavened bread, and in the Assyrian Church of the East, which used to be the largest in the world until a genocide around 800 years ago, and if you don’t believe me, look them up; they also worship almost exclusively in a dialect of Aramaic - uses leavened bread made with leaven from the previous batch, in a continuous succession they believe goes back to the Apostles, and the baking of this bread is also in their church a sacrament called Malka, meaning “the King.”
 
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The Liturgist

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I pointed out in detail the very symbolic language Jesus used. I addressed the reaction of the Jews and disciples at their musunderstanding of Jesus' words and how Jesus then gave further perspective on how 'eating His flesh" is equivalent to receiving His word. John 6 is not about the Lord's Supper. You have given no proof otherwise.

THe church of Christ has been around since about 33 AD, Acts 2 at Pentecost. History shows organized Catholicism did not show up to about third or fourth century, far too late to be the church of the first century that began in Acts 2. Catholicism is just another man made denmomination, older than most other denominations but a man made denmomination none the less that deviated from Biblical truth as with transubstantiation among many many other things as wrong structure, original sin, infant baptism, etc etc.

No it doesn’t; the Council of Nicea happened in the fourth century but everyone agrees with that. The earliest date you can say the Roman Catholic Church was a discrete denomination under Papal supremacy is 1054, when a papal legate excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople.
 
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The Liturgist

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I need to add to my signature some kind of link to a basic unbiased history of the Christian Church, of which there are several (I myself use the Cambridge History of Christianity as a general reference but primarily other more topical books about the history of the church in specific regions, like this very good book on early liturgics in England, and a biography of John Wesley, and a compendium of the writings of Greek monks dating from the 18th century, and this library was acquired only with blood, sweat, tears and massive amounts of money and would be inaccessible to the average person in multiple respects. Also overkill. A seminary student or doctoral candidate in theology focusing on liturgics could really use it, but there is a need for something very basic).

I am thinking Wikipedia actually, because in my younger, worldlier years, reading about the history of denominations there really peaked my curiosity. Since a few hours reading on Wikipedia will show the average person that things they hate about the Roman Catholic Church were either not around in the fourth century or had been universally practiced since at least the second, and probably the first, that might put an end to the error that many people hold to that the Roman Catholic Church was founded by this evil Emperor Constantine, who they doubtless envisage as a shriveled, cackling old man like the Emperor in Star Wars (in fact, Constantine was athletic and, going by his likenesses, pretty good looking especially by the very low standard of Roman Emperors after the death of Commodus; now Diocletian, who did persecute Christians worse than they had ever been persecuted immediately before Constantine came to power, did have a Palpatine-esque visage, which is fitting, considering what a monster he was, but Commodus was also an evil man whose good looks belied his sinister nature, so take note - I do not advise judging people in their morality by their visage, that is, the appearance of their face).
 
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Jaxxi

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Is it a biscuit? I always call it bread.
They always have me a little wafer and grape juice. Is that what he says will save us? I think what it represents is what saves us. His words. His truth. Seeking Him, and fasting. Is that not how you eat the Manna from heaven? Through fasting?
 
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The Roman Rite of the Roman Catholic Church and some Protestants use unleavened wafers. The Armenians use freshly baked unleavened bread. The other Orthodox churches and many Protestants use leavened bread, and in the Assyrian Church of the East, which used to be the largest in the world until a genocide around 800 years ago, and if you don’t believe me, look them up; they also worship almost exclusively in a dialect of Aramaic - uses leavened bread made with leaven from the previous batch, in a continuous succession they believe goes back to the Apostles, and the baking of this bread is also in their church a sacrament called Malka, meaning “the King.”
Why does the recipe matter? Could we not take some wonder bread and say " This is the body of Christ" and break it and share? The spirit world would still be affected. If you picture yourself covered in the Blood of Jesus, this is very powerful in the spirit world.
 
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