Early Church Fathers and Reformers Misogynistic Quotes

[Chris V++]

sorry, but this looks like a hatchet piece.

I intentionally didn't exclude the quotes from other church founders so to have not this be a hatchet piece. The point of this really had nothing to do with misogyny but more the reliability of saints or reformers and their traditions or interpretations when weighed against scripture.

It is in the consensus of the Church Father's that we find truth that can be trusted. It's potentially very misleading to draw a conclusion based on one or a few.

We don’t consider the church fathers to be infallible. It’s the consensus of the Church over time. None of the bishops or leaders are infallible. However, when in consensus, we consider it to be preserving the Orthodox faith. Consensus doesn’t mean just consensus of the people at the time, but throughout the history of the Church.

Ok Thanks I get it , its the consensus that shaped and maintained the traditions of the Orthodox faith.

 

[~Anastasia~]

She is mother of His human part, not of His deity part.

Therefore the title is quite strange and very controversial, for many even blasphemious.

Jesus cannot be divided into "parts" though. I understand what you are saying, but it really has been deeply discussed - almost 2000 years ago.

 

[RobNJ]

She is mother of His human part, not of His deity part.

Therefore the title is quite strange and very controversial, for many even blasphemious.

Not for the first 1500, or so years of Christianity.... Only after the Reformation started messing things up

 

[Hieronymus]

Theotokos is woman and she is sinless.

God has no mother.

 

[Chris V++]

Vying for The Golden Plunger Award.

Yeah, well sorry, I'm still having a hard time trying to process that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox church.

 

[Hieronymus]

Yeah, well sorry, I'm still having a hard time trying to process that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox church.

It's the same play on words the RCC uses.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Yeah, well sorry, I'm still having a hard time trying to process that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox church.

That needs to be understood in context too. Remember that we do NOT judge the salvation of anyone!

But in eternity - the Church is one ...

 

[trophy33]

Not for the first 1500, or so years of Christianity.... Only after the Reformation started messing things up

Reformation tried to return to simple first Christianity, without hundreds of years of man-made traditions, habits and doctrines...

It tried to return to beginnings.

I understand that for very bulky churches with many traditions it can seem to be "messy".

 

[~Anastasia~]

And we potentially have 3-4 streams of conversation going on ... I hope your question about how we understand Tradition as regards teaching from the ECFs has been answered at least, since it was the OP.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Reformation tried to return to simple first Christianity, without hundreds of years of man-made traditions, habits and doctrines...

It tried to return to beginnings.

Yeah, I understand that for very bulky with many traditions it can seem to be "messy".

It was a noble attempt. The thing is ... the early teachings are still there and more accessible now that ever.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I will just add ... "teaching" and "tradition" have the same root. Protestant translators would translate it as "tradition" when it was a negative thing, and "teaching" or "doctrine" when it was a good thing. It's an introduction of bias.

The Apostles taught to hold fast to the Traditions they handed down.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I intentionally didn't exclude the quotes from other church founders so to have not this be a hatchet piece. The point of this really had nothing to do with misogyny but more the reliability of saints or reformers and their traditions or interpretations when weighed against scripture.

I get that wasn't your intention, but the title of the thread, and then having select pieces from two guys we consider saints, no context to what they wrote, it came across that way, at least to my eyes.

 

[ArmyMatt]

God has no mother.

St Luke's Gospel disagrees with you.

 

[RobNJ]

Yeah, well sorry, I'm still having a hard time trying to process that there is no salvation outside the Orthodox church.

OK, but why is the original screed you posted, quoting four authors that have absolutely nothing to do with the Orthodox Church?

 

[trophy33]

It was a noble attempt. The thing is ... the early teachings are still there and more accessible now that ever.

Thanks to reformation, I think. Before it, the Roman Church did not want to give Bible to people.
People were being killed or imprisoned for having the Bible at home.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Thanks to reformation, I think. Before it, the Roman Church did not want to give Bible to people.
People were being killed or imprisoned for having the Bible at home.

The Roman Church didn't own the entire body of teaching from the early Church. Though what they enforced regarding their Latin translation is a matter to discuss between Catholics and Protestants, since we are neither.

The greatest majority was written in Greek, and is more widely available now because of the efforts of translators and the widespread reach of the Internet.

 

[trophy33]

The Roman Church didn't own the entire body of teaching from the early Church.

Nobody "owns" it. Its free for all. But they wanted to keep it for "priests" and take it away from people to control them. Reformation happened because of it.

Though what they enforced regarding their Latin translation is a matter to discuss between Catholics and Protestants, since we are neither.

When Christians in my country (moravian brothers, unitas fratrum) tried to figure out what to do, they tried to contact eastern church with hope that there they will find the real and simple faith. But they were disappointed, even though situation was better there than in the Roman church, they found many traditions, habits and superstitions in the East, too. That made our Christians desperate what to do.

There was no other way than to fight for truth against all, several crusades tried to crush this small nation until a political lie did the job. Then Martin Luther in the neighbouring Germany appeared and the rest is a known history.

 

[Chris V++]

OK, but why is the original screed you posted, quoting four authors that have absolutely nothing to do with the Orthodox Church?

Sorry. That was a really bad idea. I thought it more fair to include the quotes from many denominations so to not come off as attacking any specific church. I wasn't trying to pass off Luther or Calvin as Orthodox.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

God has no mother.

Who gave birth to The Lord Jesus Christ on earth then ?

 

[Lukaris]

It's the same play on words the RCC uses.

Any individual may be saved per Romans 2; we have to avoid the trap of diluting our faith with incompatible doctrine.