Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[Phil W]

We are forgiven sinners. We are not Sinless in that we claim our actual flesh is like His.

Isn't our skin like His?
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"Our" skin is His skin after we are "immersed" into Christ. (Rom 6:3)

 

[Phil W]

Good one. Let's take a look at that.

James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

Who is the righteous man?
Another sinner?

 

[Phil W]

A person that intentionally misreads Paul will agree. IMO. Romans 7 is implicit. 1 John 1:8-10 is implicit.

There’s many more verses that explain the mystery.

Christ Almighty even called Himself less than the Father to make this point.

If Jesus didn’t claim equality with the Father, though He had it... what makes doctrine think it should teach we should claim equality with Christ?

Philippians 2

I thought Jesus said..."I and my Father are one." (John 10:30)

 

[Phil W]

Job 11:7
“Can you fathom the mysteries of God? Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?

1 Corinthians 4:1
This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed.

Do "servants of Christ" still "serve sin"? (John 8:32-34)

 

[Grip Docility]

No, I come in here to give my opinion, I don't debate which seems to be what most people want to do. They want to be right and prove it by anothers mistakes. I think debate is cruel. I respect your opinion, you either respect mine or you don't. I go on my way.
God bless you for your grace.

Then I ask your forgiveness

 

[Grip Docility]

Isn't our skin like His?
It is written..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
"Our" skin is His skin after we are "immersed" into Christ. (Rom 6:3)

IMO, that’s definitely not what it says.

 

[Phil W]

@Grip Docility and @Saint Steven

Just wanted to say before ending my part in this conversation with Grip, that there is a difference between what I believe and what Phil W believes about sinless perfection, and what he and I go round and round on. He believes all sin is willful, so sin is sin, and claims to not sin at all. I do not claim that I don't sin unknowingly like he does. But what I do teach is that while walking in the Spirit, those unknown, unintentional sins are cleansed, as I see at the end of 1 John 1:7 I don't teach that I don't commit them, just that with those Jesus is my Advocate. But as John said in 1 John 2:1 we can mature out of committing even them.

If one is "walking in the Spirit (of God)", how can they do works of the flesh?

 

[Phil W]

That statement right there is a deadly statement.

That Robe is the most expensive thing in all existence. One must be careful to not defile it’s “price”.

How would that "defilement" come about?
By sinning?

 

[Phil W]

IMO, that’s definitely not what it says.

If you were crucified, and Christ is living in you, how do you get the conclusion that your skin is different than His skin?
It's His skin now...if you're walking in the Spirit.

 

[Grip Docility]

If you were crucified, and Christ is living in you, how do you get the conclusion that your skin is different than His skin?
It's His skin now...if you're walking in the Spirit.

It depends how you mean this. If you mean your literal flesh is Sinless like His... no.

If you mean your flesh is dead in the tomb... and His Righteousness is in place of your failure... Then ... yes.

 

[Grip Docility]

How would that "defilement" come about?
By sinning?

This doctrine is self contradicting, except it asserts to be sin free... in the literal flesh.

This is a bold mistruth. IMO

 

[Phil W]

This doctrine is self contradicting, except it asserts to be sin free... in the literal flesh.

This is a bold mistruth. IMO

The "doctrine which is according to Godliness", (1 Tim 6:3), asserts we can be "freed from sin", (Rom 6:7), in His temple...which, coincidentally, is covered with skin.

 

[Grip Docility]

The "doctrine which is according to Godliness", (1 Tim 6:3), asserts we can be "freed from sin", (Rom 6:7), in His temple...which, coincidentally, is covered with skin.

It is the mechanism that is in dispute and the result that is being debated.

The words are true... but Romans 6, Romans 7 and Romans 8 is being misread.

 

[Phil W]

It depends how you mean this. If you mean your literal flesh is Sinless like His... no.

Skin is just skin.
It has no power to compel one to do anything for or against God.
It is the mind that runs the 'ship'.

If you mean your flesh is dead in the tomb... and His Righteousness is in place of your failure... Then ... yes.

I think we have a break-through!
My "flesh" was crucified and buried, with Jesus, at my "immersion" into Him and into His death. (Rom 6:3-6)
My "flesh" is now His temple, clean and pure and befitting the King of Kings.

 

[Phil W]

It is the mechanism that is in dispute and the result that is being debated.

The words are true... but Romans 6, Romans 7 and Romans 8 is being misread.

Rom 6...Death of the "flesh"/old man of sin.
Rom 7...Paul's recollections of life of failure under the law. A transition from flesh to Spirit.
Rom 8...Life walked in the Spirit INSTEAD of in the flesh.

 

[Grip Docility]

How would that "defilement" come about?
By sinning?

If you were crucified, and Christ is living in you, how do you get the conclusion that your skin is different than His skin?
It's His skin now...if you're walking in the Spirit.

The "doctrine which is according to Godliness", (1 Tim 6:3), asserts we can be "freed from sin", (Rom 6:7), in His temple...which, coincidentally, is covered with skin.

Skin is just skin.
It has no power to compel one to do anything for or against God.
It is the mind that runs the 'ship'.


I think we have a break-through!
My "flesh" was crucified and buried, with Jesus, at my "immersion" into Him and into His death. (Rom 6:3-6)
My "flesh" is now His temple, clean and pure and befitting the King of Kings.

Rom 6...Death of the "flesh"/old man of sin.
Rom 7...Paul's recollections of life of failure under the law. A transition from flesh to Spirit.
Rom 8...Life walked in the Spirit INSTEAD of in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 5:7

 

[Phil W]

2 Corinthians 5:7

Amen to that.
Faith that the truth can make us free.
Faith that our old man of sin can be killed, with Christ, at our baptism into Christ's death.
Faith that we can walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
Faith that what was once our body is now the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Faith that God provided escapes from every temptation.

 

[Grip Docility]

Amen to that.
Faith that the truth can make us free.
Faith that our old man of sin can be killed, with Christ, at our baptism into Christ's death.
Faith that we can walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
Faith that what was once our body is now the temple of the Holy Spirit.
Faith that God provided escapes from every temptation.

Yet we are not He.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Is there something wrong with using reality and experience to expound on grace?


They aren't really good then, are they?
Some abuse the gracefulness of God, but others thrive by it.
Enjoying the provision and protections given by God for the advancement of the gospel and for His own glory.
And thriving in the protections from temptation promised by God in 1 Cor 10:13.

]

Biblical grace is the important grace. Paul beat himself up black and blue to get a desired result, but God told him His grace was sufficient. The examples of Grace you gave resulted in Lazarus being resurrected TEMPORARILY, the multitude fed TEMPORARILY, etc.

God's grace, available through confession, leads to sharing in Christ's work, being a blessing to the world.


Big difference.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How does one "mature out of" accidents?

fruit of the Spirit ripen