Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

[CharismaticLady]

They don’t say what you think they say, in proper Exegesis. IMO

That’s the merry-go-round of the matter.

Only the Spirit can open their meaning to you, and I'm not Him. Good luck - You and Steven will need it.

You only understand and relate to the before-Christ scriptures. Why is that do you suppose?

Good night.

 

[def]

As I see it:

People can sin (1 John 2:1) because the flesh has desires, but they have the power not to sin (Romans 8:5). If they set their minds not to sin, they can (Romans 8:27). The Bible calls for the spirit and the mind to strive together (Philippians 1:27). Thus, it's all in the mind. The switch from a carnal mind to a spiritual mind is not binary for many of us, and the process of sanctification moves believers 'unto obedience of faith'.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Got a new username did ya?

Yes, an update from Microsoft (or a virus) wiped out all my accounts, and bookmarks. Had to start over.

Cats are my other passion besides raccoons. That reminds me, I better go feed the raccoons. They are bringing me their babies already. First time this early, and are they small and cute!

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes, an update from Microsoft (or a virus) wiped out all my accounts, and bookmarks. Had to start over.

Cats are my other passion besides raccoons. That reminds me, I better go feed the raccoons. They are bringing me their babies already. First time this early, and are they small and cute!

Ouch. That's painful.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Ouch. That's painful.

Only got bit once. But it was just a feisty baby. Didn't hurt - much.

I see you have a new buddy of like mind. Love you both! This reminds me of when you and I went round and round. LOL

 

[Grip Docility]

Only the Spirit can open their meaning to you, and I'm not Him. Good luck - You and Steven will need it.

You only understand and relate to the before-Christ scriptures. Why is that do you suppose?

Good night.

Good night Sister in Him.

 

[Saint Steven]

Only got bit once. But it was just a feisty baby. Didn't hurt - much.

I see you have a new buddy of like mind. Love you both! This reminds me of when you and I went round and round. LOL

Yes, I'm trying to avoid engagement with you on this since we went ten pages or so last time. Enough is enough.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@Grip Docility and @Saint Steven

Just wanted to say before ending my part in this conversation with Grip, that there is a difference between what I believe and what Phil W believes about sinless perfection, and what he and I go round and round on. He believes all sin is willful, so sin is sin, and claims to not sin at all. I do not claim that I don't sin unknowingly like he does. But what I do teach is that while walking in the Spirit, those unknown, unintentional sins are cleansed, as I see at the end of 1 John 1:7 I don't teach that I don't commit them, just that with those Jesus is my Advocate. But as John said in 1 John 2:1 we can mature out of committing even them.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, I'm trying to avoid engagement with you on this since we went ten pages or so last time. Enough is enough.

Cute and so TRUE!

 

[Phil W]

This seems to be a complex usage of semantics... but the point remains it’s about Jesus and what Jesus has accomplished... not us.

Amen to that.
So why are you so against the things I say about perfect obedience to Father?

I don’t use Christ’s robe of righteousness to cloak my failures before mankind.

Though I could not find any mention of a "robe of righteousness" in the bible, if you are righteous, what would you need a cloak for?

I am saved by Jesus. The filthy flesh is dead... but I continue to confess my sins one to another... because sinless doctrine is the Petrie Dish Of Pride.

You better pick which of the above is true.
Either your flesh is dead, or you commit sin.
Both can't be true.

My boasting is about and in Jesus, not myself.
I’m not saying that I am seeing others boast in self, but to exalt my position before men, when Philippians 2 states I should count myself a servant to all men... I see no profit in semantically claiming to be Sinless, when the truth is I am saved from Satan’s use of the Law of Sin and Death by Jesus Christ who did the following... (Hebrews 2:14)
It is all about Jesus and not about me. It is all because of Jesus, that I am free! In witness, I will always approach others as less than them, because that’s what my Idol did!
He who knew no sin took on the lowest servant job of all to prove a point. He washed our feet!
All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.

Good testimony, but remember, our subjection to others starts with our subjection to Christ.

 

[Grip Docility]

Amen to that.
So why are you so against the things I say about perfect obedience to Father?


Though I could not find any mention of a "robe of righteousness" in the bible, if you are righteous, what would you need a cloak for?


You better pick which of the above is true.
Either your flesh is dead, or you commit sin.
Both can't be true.


Good testimony, but remember, our subjection to others starts with our subjection to Christ.

Galatians 3:27 and if we don’t have that robe on at the wedding feast... it’s bad, to say the least.

 

[Phil W]

That is a non Biblical teaching about grace.

Is there something wrong with using reality and experience to expound on grace?

Scripture uses grace to express God's leniency even to situations where the Law has jurisdiction, based on acknowledging (you'd be surprised how good people are at not acknowledging that their sin is a sin!) , agreeing that the sin really was a sin (agree = con fess = acknowledge old French) :

They aren't really good then, are they?
Some abuse the gracefulness of God, but others thrive by it.
Enjoying the provision and protections given by God for the advancement of the gospel and for His own glory.
And thriving in the protections from temptation promised by God in 1 Cor 10:13.

]

 

[Phil W]

Let's be clear about something, here is what I said,
"When you decide that you are no longer a sinner who needs the mercy, forgiveness, and grace of God; that you are no longer a sinner who needs the cross of Jesus Christ; that you are no longer a sinner who needs to cry out to Jesus, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner!" and to turn again, turn again, turn again to repentance, and daily, hourly, regularly drown your old man in repentance and contrition."

Your response to that was,

"I hope you aren't saying that is a bad thing."

Isn't "not being a sinner" a good thing to you?
It is to me.

Repentance means: turn from, or, change.
If you turn from sin, you are by definition a non-sinner.
If one has to repent of sin over and over again, they are unrepentant until they have a real "turn from" sin.

 

[Phil W]

@Grip Docility and @Saint Steven

Just wanted to say before ending my part in this conversation with Grip, that there is a difference between what I believe and what Phil W believes about sinless perfection, and what he and I go round and round on. He believes all sin is willful, so sin is sin, and claims to not sin at all. I do not claim that I don't sin unknowingly like he does. But what I do teach is that while walking in the Spirit, those unknown, unintentional sins are cleansed, as I see at the end of 1 John 1:7 I don't teach that I don't commit them, just that with those Jesus is my Advocate. But as John said in 1 John 2:1 we can mature out of committing even them.

How does one "mature out of" accidents?

 

[Phil W]

Galatians 3:27 and if we don’t have that robe on at the wedding feast... it’s bad, to say the least.

You can have the best robe ever manufactured, but if you smell like a pig you will still be asked to leave the feast.

 

[Phil W]

There is a lot of confusion surrounding repentance. Thanks for trying to define it.

First off, we don't need to ask for forgiveness. Our sins are already forgiven. This is something we can be thankful for. The price has already been paid in advance, past present and future, the sins of the whole world.

The word "repent" means to turn away from. When we repent, we turn away from our sin. The word "confession" means to admit to our wrongdoing. Here's the key scripture.

1 John 1:8-10
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

Hmmm.
If He purifys us of all unrighteousness, why can we not say we have no sin?

 

[Phil W]

Right. It happens accidentally every day. - lol --- (oops)

That doesn't agree with James 1:14-15.

 

[Grip Docility]

You can have the best robe ever manufactured, but if you smell like a pig you will still be asked to leave the feast.

That statement right there is a deadly statement.

That Robe is the most expensive thing in all existence. One must be careful to not defile it’s “price”.

 

[Grip Docility]

That doesn't agree with James 1:14-15.

Romans 1 is a great read. Once it’s read... Romans 2:1-2 is an eye opener.

 

[ilovejcsog]

This is condemning all that are saved by Jesus Christ. It is a self condemning statement.

Would you allow me to proof this?

No, I come in here to give my opinion, I don't debate which seems to be what most people want to do. They want to be right and prove it by anothers mistakes. I think debate is cruel. I respect your opinion, you either respect mine or you don't. I go on my way.
God bless you for your grace.