Does this scripture refute OSAS? [Updated]

[Bible Highlighter]

One problem with trying to use that passage as well as a number of other passages to refute OSAS is you need to prove that the "Once Saved" actually occurred. You could speculate that because it says "servant" (actually "evil servant"), therefore that evil servant was saved, which doesn't necessarily follow.

The thing with OSAS is that it's based on clear and explicit statements, like 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us.
For if they had been of us (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us (ALWAYS SAVED)
But their going out showed that none of them belonged to us.

Notice the verse speaks of "us" and "them", both associated with the Christian community. Now while it is against the rules of these forums to suggest that not all "Christians" are "Real Christians", the letter of 1John, among other scriptures, speak explicitly of that very distinction.

"This is how we distinguish between who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: (among the Christian community) Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10

Likewise with regards to a lot of Jesus' parables, like the Matthew 13 parables on nominalism. But people who read the Bible like I do eventually get banned from these forums for such statements and so you're not likely to hear this viewpoint very much in these forums.

Yet, you are saying these believers that began with them were not true believers because they did not continue with them; Or are you saying they were never professing believers in Christ to begin with?

 

[Oldmantook]

.
These verses pertain to the Jewish Nation at the time of Christ, they were losing the Kingdom promised to them, because of rejecting their Messiah.

The ones directly spoken of are the Pharisees, they were mistreating the people, placing burdens on them they were not able to bear, they were the servants spoken of smiting their fellow servants, and Jesus came in a time they were not aware of, and cut them asunder.

These verses do not in any way, shape or form speak about OSAS.

You Salvation is in Christ, it is secured in Christ.

These verses on the other hand do speak directly to the issue of OSAS.

God's Everlasting Love
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This passage that you quote no where refers to sin as sin does separate us from God. Paul just a few verses earlier gives the brethren this stern warning: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:13
Spiritual death is the consequence of Christians who live according to the flesh and engage in a lifestyle of habitual sin.

 

[Oldmantook]

One problem with trying to use that passage as well as a number of other passages to refute OSAS is you need to prove that the "Once Saved" actually occurred. You could speculate that because it says "servant" (actually "evil servant"), therefore that evil servant was saved, which doesn't necessarily follow.

The thing with OSAS is that it's based on clear and explicit statements, like 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us.
For if they had been of us (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us (ALWAYS SAVED)
But their going out showed that none of them belonged to us.

Notice the verse speaks of "us" and "them", both associated with the Christian community. Now while it is against the rules of these forums to suggest that not all "Christians" are "Real Christians", the letter of 1John, among other scriptures, speak explicitly of that very distinction.

"This is how we distinguish between who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: (among the Christian community) Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother." 1John 3:10

Likewise with regards to a lot of Jesus' parables, like the Matthew 13 parables on nominalism. But people who read the Bible like I do eventually get banned from these forums for such statements and so you're not likely to hear this viewpoint very much in these forums.

Your argument is based on a fallacy of logic. Of course there are SOME Christians who are really not Christians as you point out. However it is not logical to conclude that just because SOME were not of us, then ALL were not of us. That would be like claiming since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs. Thus 1 Jn 2:19 does not at all support the notion of OSAS. While some who fall away were never believers in the first place, it does not negate the reality that others who fall away were indeed true believers.

 

[MDC]

Your argument is based on a fallacy of logic. Of course there are SOME Christians who are really not Christians as you point out. However it is not logical to conclude that just because SOME were not of us, then ALL were not of us. That would be like claiming since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs. Thus 1 Jn 2:19 does not at all support the notion of OSAS. While some who fall away were never believers in the first place, it does not negate the reality that others who fall away were indeed true believers.

True believers are those who endure to the end by faith. Eternal life is eternal security in Christ. A true believer is kept and sustained by Gods power and Spirit through Christ and His redemptive work. All of grace and all by Gods Sovereign will. So those who fall away were never in the faith, as scripture states. This debate only brings to the surface the self righteous Judaizers who’s grounds for justification is their works. They try so hard to prove eternal life isn’t in Christ, but spew their poison that eternal life rest in their works of righteousness and not in Christ alone. A false gospel that has its roots in synergistic cooperative salvation that is accursed by God.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Bearing false witness against others will not be well with you.

 

[JakeyB123]

Bearing false witness against others will not be well with you.

Was this to me?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Was this to me?

No.

 

[JakeyB123]

True believers are those who endure to the end by faith. Eternal life is eternal security in Christ. A true believer is kept and sustained by Gods power and Spirit through Christ and His redemptive work. All of grace and all by Gods Sovereign will. So those who fall away were never in the faith, as scripture states. This debate only brings to the surface the self righteous Judaizers who’s grounds for justification is their works. They try so hard to prove eternal life isn’t in Christ, but spew their poison that eternal life rest in their works of righteousness and not in Christ alone. A false gospel that has its roots in synergistic cooperative salvation that is accursed by God.

The Lord Jesus has given us free-will and we can disobey or obey.
James 5:19-20

 

[JakeyB123]

No.

Praise the Lord!

 

[MDC]

Bearing false witness against others will not be well with you.

Have a backbone and call out who you are addressing

 

[MDC]

The Lord Jesus has given us free-will and we can disobey or obey.
James 5:19-20

Then I’m sure by your logic you are able to live sinless

 

[SaintCody777]

I know what Protestants mean when they say faith alone, and though it doesn't mean easy belivism, unless you're an antimonian like Steven Anderson or Renee Roland. I understand that most Protestants and bible only Christians believe a man is justified by faith alone apart from works, though a real faith will bring forth good fruit. However, as James said in James 2, that a man's is justified by his works and not by faith only. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that on top of faith, you have to work and do good deeds in your own effort to make yourselves worthy. After all, none of us deserve to go to heaven, and we can never earn it, even if we are like Mother Teresa.We are justified by good deeds because good deeds prove that our faith is really true and active and not just empty lips. After all, that's exactly what James said about how works justified Abraham because they proved his faith was valid in James 2:21-22. As the old saying goes, "the proof is in the pudding." Faith and works are 2 sides of the same coin.[/QUOTE]

 

[bcbsr]

Then we should never quote Matthew 7:23. For this verse teaches that those who did many wonderful works in Christ's name are told to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin). Do you think these individuals did not profess that they were not Christians? It doesn't seem like that to me.

Also, do you ever think that those who are banned for speaking the truth of Scripture are doing so because Scripture says all who will live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution?

I know you believe in OSAS, but from my experience, there is nothing more sinister than that kind of belief. It has nothing to do with the Bible. One has to ignore all the warnings in the Bible and how works play a part in the salvation process in order to make such a belief work. For to say we are saved by God's grace without works and to say nothing more can potentially lead some people to think they can live extremely evil lives and yet still be saved. Surely this cannot be. For such a belief would be immoral.

You think that a person simply professing himself to be a Christian means that he's been born of God?

The faith that you profess is a faith in your own works to save you. This in contrast to the saving faith expressed in Romans 4:1-8
1 ¶ What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Yes, those of us who actually believe the gospel are saved by faith apart from works. The Bible EXPLICITLY says that. Let alone other passages like Eph 2:8,9

And typical of salvation by works Christians you slander and misrepresent my position concerning behavior, just as Paul was slandered. Rom 3:8 And why not say, "Let us do evil that good may come"? ——as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just." You're into warnings? Here's one - slanderers do not inherit the kingdom of God.

You imagine that if you believed OSAS it would lead you into living in sin, but it doesn't lead those born of God into license because of the nature of regeneration. "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

 

[bcbsr]

Yet, you are saying these believers that began with them were not true believers because they did not continue with them; Or are you saying they were never professing believers in Christ to begin with?

It says it right in the verse. You might want to apply some basic reading comprehension skills.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

This (and the post before it) seems to be abominable pride, and bearing a false witness against those not so proud as to believe what you do or believe.

It says it right in the verse. You might want to apply some basic reading comprehension skills.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

 

[mark kennedy]

If saved it's forever, if not, its forever. I don't get the controversy here.

 

[bcbsr]

Your argument is based on a fallacy of logic. Of course there are SOME Christians who are really not Christians as you point out. However it is not logical to conclude that just because SOME were not of us, then ALL were not of us. That would be like claiming since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs. Thus 1 Jn 2:19 does not at all support the notion of OSAS. While some who fall away were never believers in the first place, it does not negate the reality that others who fall away were indeed true believers.

Basic Reading Comprehension skill. You seemed to overlook the middle of the verse:

"if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us"

Seems to me you didn't really think about what it's saying there. I recommend you think about it.

 

[CGL1023]

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

My beloved brothers and sisters, please do not be deceived by false doctrine.
Please, draw near to God by faith through the Spirit and listen to his voice.
For he is gentle and humble and he will teach you all you need to know.
He has moved so much in my life and a lot today and I have gained much understanding. Any disobedient and careless act can bring us to another unholy deed that can lead to many more. We are to workout our salvation. We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
My beloved brothers and sisters, please search the word of truth for yourself, do not listen to any website, family member, or church, but listen to the true word of God that liveth and abideth for ever. Please do not deny Jesus but allow him to speak to you.
Please before you read or answer below, take some time to humble yourself, draw near to God by faith, to be in the Spirit.
I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.
May Jesus abundantly bless you with his knowledge, and many many miracles that worketh mightily in those who abideth in him. Praise the Lord!

We see over and over that many doctrines come forth from the Word of God. The only way to know the truth is to become close in relationship with the Godhead then seek to become ever closer in relationship.
Mormonism, JW, Jesus Only(UP) and other cults are ready examples. I think there must not be a precise answer about OSAS as I too have seen it debated endlessly.

 

[bcbsr]

This (and the post before it) seems to be abominable pride, and bearing a false witness against those not so proud as to believe what you do or believe.

And your post is simply an accusation without any content. A knee jerk reaction expressing your feelings. No scripture, no dialogue.

Pr 18:2 A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Thanks for sharing how you feel.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Basic Reading Comprehension skill. You seemed to overlook the middle of the verse:

"if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us"

Seems to me you didn't really think about what it's saying there. I recommend you think about it.

.... the true believers in the local area
don't belong to the calvinists/ osas's groups, and don't want to be with nor to remain with them....

Thinking about what it's saying there, as Yahweh grants understanding,
works against you.