Does this scripture refute OSAS? [Updated]

[Blade]

We should always be careful how we answer. Well for ME I do not see any support for OSAS nor support you can lose your salvation. For 57 years.. only when I was just saved..or sinning did these kinds of thoughts pop up. As one gets older in the lord ( NOT aging in earth years) you know just who is talking.

And again for ME reading from Matt to John. I have NEVER come away, again in 57 years with any kind of fear nor of believing somehow some way I MIGHT lose my salvation. I am no GOD.. I did not do this. I had no hand in it. A GOD did this.. gave this to the WORLD. And as if I have lol as MAN some kind of POWER to undo that which is born from above (born again).. yeah.. its NOT just some choice. SOMETHING was made new.. ALL THINGS become new. Paul told you.. I keep doing what I dont want to do.. what I want to do I dont do. Its no longer I that sin.. but sin that is in me.

LOL go for it.. pray seek the lord.. ask HIMl...should you EVER worry, fear doubt (ALL words that NEVER come from God) about losing your salvation. Ask HIM.. chapter and verse. You are talking about what? Tomrrow.. the future of which you were NEVER promised. He told us.. tomorrow and all of its cares.. will take care of its self. TODAY is what matters. DO what HE said and these thoughts will go. OT.. the one that keeps there mind on God .. God will keep you in PERFECT PEACE! And did not Christ say.. He gave us His peace.. not of this world? Do you KNOW that peace? Ever have it? YOU DO.. you should be walking in it ever day. And again these kind of thoughts will NEVER pop into your mind. No one can back this up with the word. Like saying Jesus is NOT the only way.. duh.. we KNOW thats written. For HE said it. When you have to SPECULATE.. and then say as I do here "what I personally believe" <-----that is MY word not Gods.

So I can not find either in the word.

 

[JakeyB123]

We should always be careful how we answer. Well for ME I do not see any support for OSAS nor support you can lose your salvation. For 57 years.. only when I was just saved..or sinning did these kinds of thoughts pop up. As one gets older in the lord ( NOT aging in earth years) you know just who is talking.

And again for ME reading from Matt to John. I have NEVER come away, again in 57 years with any kind of fear nor of believing somehow some way I MIGHT lose my salvation. I am no GOD.. I did not do this. I had no hand in it. A GOD did this.. gave this to the WORLD. And as if I have lol as MAN some kind of POWER to undo that which is born from above (born again).. yeah.. its NOT just some choice. SOMETHING was made new.. ALL THINGS become new. Paul told you.. I keep doing what I dont want to do.. what I want to do I dont do. Its no longer I that sin.. but sin that is in me.

LOL go for it.. pray seek the lord.. ask HIMl...should you EVER worry, fear doubt (ALL words that NEVER come from God) about losing your salvation. Ask HIM.. chapter and verse. You are talking about what? Tomrrow.. the future of which you were NEVER promised. He told us.. tomorrow and all of its cares.. will take care of its self. TODAY is what matters. DO what HE said and these thoughts will go. OT.. the one that keeps there mind on God .. God will keep you in PERFECT PEACE! And did not Christ say.. He gave us His peace.. not of this world? Do you KNOW that peace? Ever have it? YOU DO.. you should be walking in it ever day. And again these kind of thoughts will NEVER pop into your mind. No one can back this up with the word. Like saying Jesus is NOT the only way.. duh.. we KNOW thats written. For HE said it. When you have to SPECULATE.. and then say as I do here "what I personally believe" <-----that is MY word not Gods.

So I can not find either in the word.

Personal relationship is absolute key. Draw near to God and he will do likewise <3

 

[JakeyB123]

Then I’m sure by your logic you are able to live sinless

Come on now, that's not what were talking about.

 

[discipler7]

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven?

.
ROMANS.10:5-7 = 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.
.

HEBREWS.11:1-6 =
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, ...

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, ...

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

It is pointless and endless for Christians to debate about OSAS or "justification by faith alone" or to debate against atheists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc about the afterlife because only after death can the truth about the afterlife be proven, ie all those who are still living cannot truly prove their belief/faith about the afterlife.

Instead of engaging in such pointless debates, Christians should endeavour to keep their faith in Jesus Christ until their dying breath, and not lose faith(eg by ignorantly sinning and the resulting sufferings - the story of Job) or renounce their faith(eg when facing persecution) or not depart from the faith(eg by following after demonic doctrines - 1TIMOTHY.4:1) .

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Personal relationship is absolute key. Draw near to God and he will do likewise <3

How many millions or billions are in the multitudes on judgment day who thought they were "saved" while they were on earth, before they died,
but to whom Jesus says otherwise (they did it all for show, not obedience to Him) .... ?

 

[JakeyB123]

.
ROMANS.10:5-7 = 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.
.

HEBREWS.11:1-6 =
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, ...

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, ...

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

It is pointless and endless for Christians to debate about OSAS or to debate against atheists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc about the afterlife because only after death can the truth about the afterlife be proven, ie all those who are still living cannot truly prove their belief/faith about the afterlife.

We now keep the law of Christ.
The law of Moses has been fulfilled by Jesus so now we go according to the Spirit he has given to those who obey him (Acts 5:32) and we now through the Spirit we wait for the righteousness of faith. (Galatians 5:5)
Faith working through the love of Christ, loving our neighbor as ourself.
There is one faith, and that is faith in the Lord Jesus (Ephesians 4:5)
Through unbelief many will not be able to enter (Hebrews 3:12)
May God bless you abundantly according to his grace!

 

[JakeyB123]

How many millions or billions are in the multitudes on judgment day who thought they were "saved" while they were on earth, before they died,
but to whom Jesus says otherwise (they did it all for show, not obedience to Him) .... ?

Amen. Knowing the Lord and hearing his voice, following him according to his will through the Spirit, is the secret place, whom the Lord will have in the palm of his hand.

 

[JIMINZ]

Many will dispute OSAS.
I was in a thread that went over 150 pages .that was finally closed due to flaming.

.
Some just don't understand, and never will, it is this which causes the flaming to exist.

2Cor. 13:8
For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

Jas 3:13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Jas 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[JIMINZ]

This passage that you quote no where refers to sin as sin does separate us from God. Paul just a few verses earlier gives the brethren this stern warning: For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. Rom 8:13
Spiritual death is the consequence of Christians who live according to the flesh and engage in a lifestyle of habitual sin.

.
Your correct, those verses do not mention sin at all, my point was to explain the verses which he was having trouble with because of his Misinterpretation, and Misunderstanding of them.

His query was in relation to OSAS therefore after I explained the verses from Matthew which he was having difficulty with, then I gave him some verses which back up OSAS.

Do you personally have a disagreement with the verses from Romans which I posted?

How would they not relate to OSAS, if they don't what then is being said through them?

Have a good evening.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

.
ROMANS.10:5-7 = 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.”

6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
.
.

HEBREWS.11:1-6 =
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Faith at the Dawn of History
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, ...

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, ...

6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _

It is pointless and endless for Christians to debate about OSAS or "justification by faith alone" or to debate against atheists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc about the afterlife because only after death can the truth about the afterlife be proven, ie all those who are still living cannot truly prove their belief/faith about the afterlife.

Instead of engaging in such pointless debates, Christians should endeavour to keep their faith in Jesus Christ until their dying breath, and not lose faith(eg by ignorantly sinning and the resulting sufferings - the story of Job) or renounce their faith(eg when facing persecution).

The late, great Bible teacher,Peter Ruckman said he could use 200 verses from the Bible and preach all day that OSAS was a false doctrine. On the other hand, he also claimed that he could take 400 verses from the same Bible and preach all day that OSAS was the truth.The difference was that all the 200 verses that appeared to disprove OSAS were either taken out of context or were not addressed to the Body of Christ.From what I have seen he was correct.People need to check out both sides of disputed verses, thus following God’s command to be good students of His Word, properly dividing it.

 

[Oldmantook]

.
Your correct, those verses do not mention sin at all, my point was to explain the verses which he was having trouble with because of his Misinterpretation, and Misunderstanding of them.

His query was in relation to OSAS therefore after I explained the verses from Matthew which he was having difficulty with, I gave him some verse which back up OSAS.

Do you personally have a disagreement with the verses from Romans which I posted?

How would they not relate to OSAS, if they don't then what is then being said through them?

Have a good evening.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was of the understanding that your citation of the Romans passage was to support OSAS. If so, my point was those verses don't mention sin. Many things listed in those verses cannot separated us from the love of God, however sin does separate us from the love of God. That is why sin is not mentioned in those verses. Habitual sin in the life of the Christian that is not repented of leads to spiritual death which Paul warns of in Rom 8:13. Thus OSAS cannot be supported. Hope that answers your question, if not please inform me otherwise.

 

[Oldmantook]

Basic Reading Comprehension skill. You seemed to overlook the middle of the verse:

"if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us"

Seems to me you didn't really think about what it's saying there. I recommend you think about it.

I suggest you reread my post and think about it.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Once truly saved, always truly saved. God preserves and perseveres with His people, He gives endurance to finish the race. We can have assurance and confidence that He who began a good work, will finish it, Christ the author of faith, will perfect it, and nothing will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[JIMINZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I was of the understanding that your citation of the Romans passage was to support OSAS. If so, my point was those verses don't mention sin. Many things listed in those verses cannot separated us from the love of God, however sin does separate us from the love of God. That is why sin is not mentioned in those verses.

.
Once again you are correct, sin is the only thing which can separate us from God, you won't get any argument from me on that.

Habitual sin in the life of the Christian that is not repented of leads to spiritual death which Paul warns of in Rom 8:13.

Habitual sin in the life of someone, makes him a sinner, no matter what he might call himself.

If sin is the fruit this person is producing, then he is not a Christian.

Maybe you should study more than just verse 13, and come up with a theology on the subject,

Here is the thought which Paul is conveying.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren,
we are debtors,
not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17
And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together.

We are not debtors to the Flesh, we are the Children of God, we are Heirs of God with Christ, we have the Holy Spirit as our witness, we have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear.

I have received the Grace of God unto Salvation, I do not walk after the Flesh, but after the Spirit.

I have not received the spirit of bondage again that I should fear.
Do you fear?

Thus OSAS cannot be supported.

Sorry but it is.
I fully understand your arguments against OSAS and I understand that is only because you will not open your eyes and ears to the truth concerning the issue, but that is ok because, I am sure your not a Christian who has habitual sin in their life.

Hope that answers your question, if not please inform me otherwise.

That pretty well covers my question, thank you.

 

[Oldmantook]

.
Once again you are correct, sin is the only thing which can separate us from God, you won't get any argument from me on that.



Habitual sin in the life of someone, makes him a sinner, no matter what he might call himself.

If sin is the fruit this person is producing, then he is not a Christian.

Maybe you should study more than just verse 13, and come up with a theology on the subject,

Here is the thought which Paul is conveying.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren,
we are debtors,
not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God,
they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption,
whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Rom 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit,
that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:17
And if children, then heirs;
heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with him,
that we may be also glorified together.

We are not debtors to the Flesh, we are the Children of God, we are Heirs of God with Christ, we have the Holy Spirit as our witness, we have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear.

I have received the Grace of God unto Salvation, I do not walk after the Flesh, but after the Spirit.

I have not received the spirit of bondage again that I should fear.
Do you fear?



Sorry but it is.
I fully understand your arguments against OSAS and I understand that is only because you will not open your eyes and ears to the truth concerning the issue, but that is ok because, I am sure your not a Christian who has habitual sin in their life.



That pretty well covers my question, thank you.

I noticed in your response that you completed skipped over explaining Rom 8:13. In order to maintain your support of OSAS, you would have to reconcile that particular verse with your view. How would you do so when Paul warns the brethren that the consequence of living according to the flesh is spiritual death?

 

[Oldmantook]

True believers are those who endure to the end by faith. Eternal life is eternal security in Christ. A true believer is kept and sustained by Gods power and Spirit through Christ and His redemptive work. All of grace and all by Gods Sovereign will. So those who fall away were never in the faith, as scripture states. This debate only brings to the surface the self righteous Judaizers who’s grounds for justification is their works. They try so hard to prove eternal life isn’t in Christ, but spew their poison that eternal life rest in their works of righteousness and not in Christ alone. A false gospel that has its roots in synergistic cooperative salvation that is accursed by God.

True believers endure to the end - but not all do so. Why do you think the scriptures warn against apostatizing from the faith if it were not possible to do so? Only believers can apostatize since it is impossible for unbelievers who never belonged to the faith to fall away from it. Since you don't believe it is possible to lose your salvation, you can take the mark of the beast and not lose your salvation correct?

 

[Chinchilla]

How many millions or billions are in the multitudes on judgment day who thought they were "saved" while they were on earth, before they died,
but to whom Jesus says otherwise (they did it all for show, not obedience to Him) .... ?

He said I never knew you depart from me , not I knew you but forgot you .

 

[GingerBeer]

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

My beloved brothers and sisters, please do not be deceived by false doctrine.
Please, draw near to God by faith through the Spirit and listen to his voice.
For he is gentle and humble and he will teach you all you need to know.
He has moved so much in my life and a lot today and I have gained much understanding. Any disobedient and careless act can bring us to another unholy deed that can lead to many more. We are to workout our salvation. We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
My beloved brothers and sisters, please search the word of truth for yourself, do not listen to any website, family member, or church, but listen to the true word of God that liveth and abideth for ever. Please do not deny Jesus but allow him to speak to you.
Please before you read or answer below, take some time to humble yourself, draw near to God by faith, to be in the Spirit.
I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.
May Jesus abundantly bless you with his knowledge, and many many miracles that worketh mightily in those who abideth in him. Praise the Lord!

OSAS seems like a "first world" concern, a little bit degenerate, a whole lot self-centred.

 

[Albion]

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth.

Hi, Jakey. I like your post, but it occurs to me that, when you wrote the above part of it, you just about covered the entire issue.

There ARE verses that seem to support OSAS...and there are verses that seem to go the other way. It is not as though we can decide this issue on the basis of any one of them.

And, perhaps most important of all, we will or should live our lives in the very same way, whichever of the views is the correct one.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He said I never knew you depart from me , not I knew you but forgot you .

Common ploy of those who believe a false gospel.
Often repeated by those who do not believe the false gospel, but don't realize the insidiousness of this ploy, which is used and is meant by the false gospel preachers to deceive others.