Does this scripture refute OSAS? [Updated]

[Bible Highlighter]

It says it right in the verse. You might want to apply some basic reading comprehension skills.

"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

But you said before that it is against the forum rules to state that some believers are not believers. Yet, in 1 John 2:19 this is what it saying and you are agreeing with me. So either you do not agree with the rule entirely or you are contradicting yourself. In short, the verse itself is breaking this rule.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You think that a person simply professing himself to be a Christian means that he's been born of God?

The faith that you profess is a faith in your own works to save you. This in contrast to the saving faith expressed in Romans 4:1-8
1 ¶ What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about— but not before God.
3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.
5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

Yes, those of us who actually believe the gospel are saved by faith apart from works. The Bible EXPLICITLY says that. Let alone other passages like Eph 2:8,9

And typical of salvation by works Christians you slander and misrepresent my position concerning behavior, just as Paul was slandered. Rom 3:8 And why not say, "Let us do evil that good may come"? ——as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just." You're into warnings? Here's one - slanderers do not inherit the kingdom of God.

You imagine that if you believed OSAS it would lead you into living in sin, but it doesn't lead those born of God into license because of the nature of regeneration. "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

In Romans 3, Paul said this as a point of getting initially right with God by seeking forgiveness of their sins by Jesus Christ. Romans 3:1 says, what profit is there of the Jew or circumcision? So Paul was trying to refute the false Pharisee religion that claimed you had to be circumcised to be saved. This is not talking about how we have to endure unto the end in our Sanctification. There are many verses that talk about what we MUST do after coming to Christ. It is not an automatic thing as you suggest. Yes, we do need to be born again and we will have a new heart with new desires, but nowhere does Scripture teach that we do not need to worry about enduring until the end in our faith. There are many commands that Jesus and His followers give us that if you do this.... you are of God and if you do not do such things you are condemned.

For Jesus would never say to us to forgive or we will not be forgiven in Matthew 6:15 if it is just an automatic thing that just happens to all believers. It would be redundant or pointless to say such a thing if what you say is true.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But you said before that it is against the forum rules to state that some believers are not believers. Yet, in 1 John 2:19 this is what it saying and you are agreeing with me. So either you do not agree with the rule entirely or you are contradicting yourself. In short, the verse itself is breaking this rule.

The one you replied to breaks the rules of God's Kingdom every day, and says that others who do not agree with the way he believes are the ones who are wrong, thus leaving himself (or herself?) without correction and so far without turning to Yahweh for the Truth (apparently without repentance from errors and not seeking Yahweh's Word). (this is common, btw, on this forum, for many, and not unusual, and for this one has been apparent just in the last 2 days or so at least, reading (not on purpose, but as they came up= not seeking his posts, but just reading them when they came up in threads I was reading).

 

[dqhall]

True believers are those who endure to the end by faith. Eternal life is eternal security in Christ. A true believer is kept and sustained by Gods power and Spirit through Christ and His redemptive work. All of grace and all by Gods Sovereign will. So those who fall away were never in the faith, as scripture states. This debate only brings to the surface the self righteous Judaizers who’s grounds for justification is their works. They try so hard to prove eternal life isn’t in Christ, but spew their poison that eternal life rest in their works of righteousness and not in Christ alone. A false gospel that has its roots in synergistic cooperative salvation that is accursed by God.

Most of those who followed Jesus to Jerusalem and were there with him the night he was arrested were alive to witness his resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Judas was not there.

Mark 18:9 (WEB)
that the word might be fulfilled which he spoke, “Of those whom you have given me, I have lost none.”

 

[woobadooba]

Jesus said nobody would be able to pluck us out of His hand (see

It says it right in the verse. You might want to apply some basic reading comprehension skills.

Yikes! What's the difference between you condescendingly telling someone to apply some basic reading comprehension skills and calling that person stupid?

There is no difference. Both are inappropriate.

You can do better!

Proverbs 15:1 (NKJV) "A soft answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Jesus said nobody would be able to pluck us out of His hand

Remember that hasatan could not have plucked Adam and Chavah(Eve)
out of Yahweh's Hand
unless Adam and Chavah by their own free will followed him.
Yahweh did not take away their free will,
nor does He take away any person's free will until they die,
except when He gives someone over (as written in His Word) to believe their own delusions.

 

[Chinchilla]

Common ploy of those who believe a false gospel.
Often repeated by those who do not believe the false gospel, but don't realize the insidiousness of this ploy, which is used and is meant by the false gospel preachers to deceive others.

Where is the true gospel ?

 

[MDC]

True believers endure to the end - but not all do so. Why do you think the scriptures warn against apostatizing from the faith if it were not possible to do so? Only believers can apostatize since it is impossible for unbelievers who never belonged to the faith to fall away from it. Since you don't believe it is possible to lose your salvation, you can take the mark of the beast and not lose your salvation correct?

All the elect endure to the end by Gods grace. Only true believers are the elect in Christ. What you speak of are tares among the wheat (true believers). Pretenders and false professors are apostates and tares among the visible church. And warnings in scripture are to encourage true believers of their leaven and to call to repentance these tares. 1 John 2:19 is obvious that they were NEVER among the elect in Christ. Because if they had been they would’ve remained in the faith. But they were made manifest to the church that they were imposters. Only a tare would take the mark. By promoting loss of salvation, you therefore promote that your works maintains your salvation. There’s no Christ nor gospel in this false teaching

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Where is the true gospel ?

Are you seeking (truthfully asking for) the true gospel , the good news , the kingdom of Yahweh, the salvation in Jesus , the truth from Yahweh ?
Or asking for any other reason ?

 

[Chinchilla]

Are you seeking (truthfully asking for) the true gospel , the good news , the kingdom of Yahweh, the salvation in Jesus , the truth from Yahweh ?
Or asking for any other reason ?

Yea assume that I was in car crash and I'm dying and you want to save me what would you preach to me .

 

[MDC]

Most of those who followed Jesus to Jerusalem and were there with him the night he was arrested were alive to witness his resurrection and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Judas was not there.

Mark 18:9 (WEB)
that the word might be fulfilled which he spoke, “Of those whom you have given me, I have lost none.”

Judas was never among Christ’s sheep. Only put there to fulfill Gods will and purpose

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yea assume that I was in car crash and I'm dying and you want to save me what would you preach to me .

Nothing. I am not a preacher.

 

[Chinchilla]

Nothing. I am not a preacher.

So you would just let me bleed out not sharing the gospel with me , that's cruel

Didn't Jesus tell you to share the gospel with others ?
Mark 16:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Richard T]

I read through most of these posts but nowhere did I find the sin unto death, for the believer that is in gross sin. 1 Corinthians 5:5 (NASB77)
5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. This is important to OSAS as it shows what happens to a Christian with gross and habitually sin.
1 John 5:16-17 (NASB77)
16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you would just let me bleed out not sharing the gospel with me , that's cruel..

Didn't Jesus tell you to share the gospel with others ?
Mark 16:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

You said (asked what I would) "preach". Since most preachers lie, all around you, me and the whole world, I did not want to associate with that term.

 

[Devin P]

I've been tossed between doctrines many times.
I come across scriptures that seem to support OSAS and some refute it.
I really want to stop being tossed and be justified by faith in Christ and not by the law, yet live holy before the Lord without saying is this getting me to heaven? But simply just knowing the truth... For example there's a scripture that talks about that some are ever-learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and I don't want that to be me...
Please explain to me if this supports OSAS somehow, or it simply refutes it.
The scripture is Matthew 24:48-51 KJV
Matthew 24:48-51 King James Version (KJV)
48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

My beloved brothers and sisters, please do not be deceived by false doctrine.
Please, draw near to God by faith through the Spirit and listen to his voice.
For he is gentle and humble and he will teach you all you need to know.
He has moved so much in my life and a lot today and I have gained much understanding. Any disobedient and careless act can bring us to another unholy deed that can lead to many more. We are to workout our salvation. We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith.
My beloved brothers and sisters, please search the word of truth for yourself, do not listen to any website, family member, or church, but listen to the true word of God that liveth and abideth for ever. Please do not deny Jesus but allow him to speak to you.
Please before you read or answer below, take some time to humble yourself, draw near to God by faith, to be in the Spirit.
I ask that before answering you ask the Lord for understanding and wisdom.
May Jesus abundantly bless you with his knowledge, and many many miracles that worketh mightily in those who abideth in him. Praise the Lord!

I definitely agree, that it does seem to refute OSAS. There are many other scriptures that do. I mean, Saul is a perfect example that OSAS cannot be so. He was filled with the Holy Spirit, and continued in disobedience to God's will, doing what He wished, and God removed His Spirit from him at a certain point. I believe it's like that even for us. Salvation existed back then as well as it does today, and this is how Moses talked with God face to face, how Abraham was called God's friend, David a man after God's Own Heart, etc, etc, etc.

God is just, and without faith in Him for salvation, no man is justified, but that faith, will be perfected in how we walk.

That verse you mentioned, in 2 Timothy, about certain men ever learning, but never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth. I definitely agree, especially when we look at what the bible describes as truth.

Psalms 119:142, Psalms 119:151, Psalms 119:160, Nehemiah 9:13, Daniel 9:13, Malachi 2:6, John 17:17.

Even if you continue reading in that chapter in 2 Timothy, it goes on to say that there are those that will be led astray, but you timothy remember what you have learned and been taught since you were a baby - the Holy Scriptures, all of which can sanctify and prepare you for all good works that will lead to salvation. But the thing is, that they only had the old testament at that time. There was no new testament, so this was talking about what was learned from the old testament.

Which brings me to the point of me linking those scriptures earlier. If you look at Psalm 119:142 in blue letter bible, or any other concordance, you'll see that the word used for "truth", is Torah. You see, the Torah (the first five books of the bible, from Genesis to Deuteronomy), is what the bible continually refers to as truth. It is constantly referred to as what is used to set us apart, and it's continually used as what is to be walked out. Jesus was our perfect example of how to walk it out, not in the way they were when He came to earth (more so walking in their own man-made traditions, than in the truth of God). If you wish to come to the knowledge of the truth, read Leviticus 26-27. If you wish to come to the knowledge of the truth, you'll have to read from Genesis - Deuteronomy, and ask God for guidance the entire time.

Pray on what I've responded to you with, and ask that you are led into the truth, and not tradition, because even today, because of our many traditions, just as the jews did when Jesus walked the earth, we do now. We place a higher value in our man-made doctrines and traditions, than in the Truth and the sure things of God.

 

[Chinchilla]

You said (asked what I would) "preach". Since most preachers lie, all around you, me and the whole world, I did not want to associate with that term.

Will you answer or keep dodging the question ?

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

yes! that's it! OSAS is dead!

finally!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Will you answer or keep dodging the question ?

You answered yourself sufficiently in previous post(s). No dodging.
If you are believing the truth, and keep believing the truth, no worries.
If you are believing the preachers instead, and keep following the preachers instead, that's your free will choice to make. (supposedly , anyway)

 

[Chinchilla]

You answered yourself sufficiently in previous post(s). No dodging.
If you are believing the truth, and keep believing the truth, no worries.
If you are believing the preachers instead, and keep following the preachers instead, that's your free will choice to make. (supposedly , anyway)

Are all preachers bad ? Who is preacher ?