Does the Sabbath still exist?

[Arthur57]

17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17- 19.

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:14.
If these Gentile Galatians believe in the Gospel, they are Abraham’s children too, and heirs to the promise, the pouring out of the Spirit as according to Ezekiel 36:26, that they might be enabled to live righteously to fulfill the law demands, because the law now is written in their hearts as according to Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Therefore, the law that was proclaimed 430 years later could not disannul the covenant of God to Abraham, and do away the promise. Why? Because righteousness is by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law. If it can be obtained through the law, then the promise has no effect. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11.

So, what is the point of giving the law to men? Because of their transgression, so that they might be legally condemned, for if there is no law, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15), although the whole world transgressed the law of God, for no one does good, and no one is righteous (Romans 3:10,12), but sin is not taken into account if there is no law (Romans 5:13).

And the law served till the seed come, to whom the promise was made, the law that was a shadow of things to come but the body is Christ, these laws was nailed on the cross.

Does the Ten Commandments ends also at the cross? The 10Cs is not a law that is a shadow of things to come! This law is a description of God’s character, for it can be summarized to love God and love your neighbor as your self. Thus, this law stand for eternity as long God is love, and Christ believers are oblige to keep is “if you love me, keep my commandments.” And also this law is what Christ believers should kept in their heart and fulfill its demands, to live in harmony with it.

 

[Arthur57]

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Galatians 4:30.

Paul comparing righteousness by works against righteousness by faith using these two women as mediator. Hagar the slave woman represent the covenant from Mount Sinai, the Old Covenant, the promise of Israel to obey the law of God, that made them all come under slavery of sin, for they failed to attain righteousness by the law and condemned. But Sara is a free woman represent the New Covenant, a covenant of promise, God promise that he will pour out his Spirit upon those who believe and give them a new heart (Eze. 36:26), and write down his law on their hearts and put it in their minds (Jer. 31:31-34), so that they might live in harmony with his law and fulfill its righteous demands.

The first woman gave birth to a son by the flesh, a son of slavery, and the second woman gave birth to a son of promise, by faith. The first are those who seek righteousness by the law through works, as those Galatians now being advice by Paul. And the second are those Christ believers, who seek righteousness by faith.

What the apostle said: Get rid of the slave woman and her son!

Get rid of those ideas to attain righteousness through works by keeping the law! It will only bring them under condemnation of the law, because no one can fulfill the law righteous demands without Christ, without faith in Him.

But does Paul advice us to get rid of the law? Some people think so.

 

[from scratch]

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. Galatians 4:30.

Paul comparing righteousness by works against righteousness by faith using these two women as mediator. Hagar the slave woman represent the covenant from Mount Sinai, the Old Covenant, the promise of Israel to obey the law of God, that made them all come under slavery of sin, for they failed to attain righteousness by the law and condemned. But Sara is a free woman represent the New Covenant, a covenant of promise, God promise that he will pour out his Spirit upon those who believe and give them a new heart (Eze. 36:26), and write down his law on their hearts and put it in their minds (Jer. 31:31-34), so that they might live in harmony with his law and fulfill its righteous demands.

The first woman gave birth to a son by the flesh, a son of slavery, and the second woman gave birth to a son of promise, by faith. The first are those who seek righteousness by the law through works, as those Galatians now being advice by Paul. And the second are those Christ believers, who seek righteousness by faith.

What the apostle said: Get rid of the slave woman and her son!

Get rid of those ideas to attain righteousness through works by keeping the law! It will only bring them under condemnation of the law, because no one can fulfill the law righteous demands without Christ, without faith in Him.

But does Paul advice us to get rid of the law? Some people think so.

Except that no one can meet those requirements with or without the help of Jesus or the Holy Spirit. History is a valid testimony to this fact. We can only aquire this required righteousnes through Jesus, not with His help.

 

[from scratch]

17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:17- 19.

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:14.
If these Gentile Galatians believe in the Gospel, they are Abraham’s children too, and heirs to the promise, the pouring out of the Spirit as according to Ezekiel 36:26, that they might be enabled to live righteously to fulfill the law demands, because the law now is written in their hearts as according to Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Therefore, the law that was proclaimed 430 years later could not disannul the covenant of God to Abraham, and do away the promise. Why? Because righteousness is by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law. If it can be obtained through the law, then the promise has no effect. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:11.

So, what is the point of giving the law to men? Because of their transgression, so that they might be legally condemned, for if there is no law, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15), although the whole world transgressed the law of God, for no one does good, and no one is righteous (Romans 3:10,12), but sin is not taken into account if there is no law (Romans 5:13).

And the law served till the seed come, to whom the promise was made, the law that was a shadow of things to come but the body is Christ, these laws was nailed on the cross.

Does the Ten Commandments ends also at the cross? The 10Cs is not a law that is a shadow of things to come! This law is a description of God’s character, for it can be summarized to love God and love your neighbor as your self. Thus, this law stand for eternity as long God is love, and Christ believers are oblige to keep is “if you love me, keep my commandments.” And also this law is what Christ believers should kept in their heart and fulfill its demands, to live in harmony with it.

Are you really asking if the 10 Cs stopped existing at hte cross or if we can now sin with impunity? What does I Tim 1:9, 10 say? 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Who does the law apply to? What are you confessing by saying the law is for anybody and everybody.

Consider Gal 5:18-21 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice these sins aren't related as obedience to the law.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.......................

What should one make of Isa 28:10? - For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

...........................

GE:

Isaiah makes of it the DRUNKARDS' method of teaching the dumb and lazy ochlocrasy.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Except that no one can meet those requirements with or without the help of Jesus or the Holy Spirit. History is a valid testimony to this fact. We can only aquire this required righteousnes through Jesus, not with His help.

GE:

Absolutely valid point!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

As I have presented here, your idea is against what I stated, and I believe is against the Scripture.

Does GRACE annul His law? The answer is NO.

GE:

The answer is no one way stop sign. Grace --- God in his Love and Mercy --- annulled the Law. The Bible says so and God so ILLUSTRATED AND PROVED BY JESUS CHRIST and by having annulled and quenched the very LIFE OF HIS ....... so that God in his Love and Mercy, "the God of Peace", could "bring again from the dead our Lord Jesus that Great Shepherd of his sheep THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENENT" ... "OF INDESTRUCTIBLE LIFE"!!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I strongly disagree this view! Poor presentation of the word of God.

GE:

Meet the new Shakespeare creator of the English language --- the opposite of 'straight', is 'poor'.

 

[from scratch]

I strongly disagree this view! Poor presentation of the word of God.

Why of course we know that. Now where is your defense? Didn't present any so it must mean there is none.

 

[from scratch]

GE:

Isaiah makes of it the DRUNKARDS' method of teaching the dumb and lazy ochlocrasy.

Hey neat word ochlocrasy. Love it. So true of so many. See it here often. No Bible defense but plenty of so and so said. To lazy to check things out because of some letters associated with a name. Way to often those letters are used to do nothing more than to line their pockets from abused authority.

 

[Arthur57]

Except that no one can meet those requirements with or without the help of Jesus or the Holy Spirit. History is a valid testimony to this fact. We can only aquire this required righteousnes through Jesus, not with His help.

I am confuse about the difference between "with" and "through". Can you explain your position regarding this?

 

[Arthur57]

Are you really asking if the 10 Cs stopped existing at hte cross or if we can now sin with impunity? What does I Tim 1:9, 10 say? 9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Who does the law apply to? What are you confessing by saying the law is for anybody and everybody.

I agree with Paul that the law is for the lawless and disobedient, that being under condemnation of the law, they might be led to the Savior for their salvation.

The law of course was not made for the righteous, if there is no sin in this world.

"All men had sinned and fall short of the glory of God", therefore the law has been made for all.

So, what make you an exception, once you were justified by your faith? Are you now a righteous man after the justification occurred and no longer need the law? Far from it man, you are still an unrighteous sinful man as you were before, only your status in Christ by your faith had changed, God assume you to be righteous, because he sees Christ righteousness in your place, This called the imputed righteousness of Christ, you are released from condemnation of the law.

But life still going on man! The law is waiting to condemn you again when you sinned, for the wages of sin is death, and those who sin must die.

Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. So, if you don't keep it because you think it is done away with, what you would become?

Consider Gal 5:18-21 - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

If you be led by the Spirit, you will become a righteous man, and sinned no more, therefore you are not under the law condemnation.

19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice these sins aren't related as obedience to the law.

So?

Why you think because it is not related to the law, then you may make void of the law? Paul said even faith could not make void the law, lest your assumption.

But one thing you are wrong, that what is mentioned in Galatians 5:19, 20 as works of the flesh are strongly connected to the law, because these works is against the spirit of the law, which is love. All there works of the flesh were the expression or manifestation of man's self centered attitude, which is against the law of God.

 

[Arthur57]

Why of course we know that. Now where is your defense? Didn't present any so it must mean there is none.

I am not clear, whether you asked me or GE to present a defense, but any way I would declare why I disagree with GE.

This is what GE said that I disagree:
Quote.
Hosea deals with ALL Israel's 'sabbaths', including the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD God so PERVERTED by Israel.

And even Hosea or not Hosea, God brought an end to ALL sabbaths AND his Own Holy Day the Seventh Day of the week : THROUGH AND IN JESUS CHRIST CRUCIFIED AND NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN "OUT OF THE WAY" UNTO REDEMPTION. Because that "WAY" of Redemption is Christ Jesus; no Law could stand in his way; no death; no condemnation.

I always ask, WHAT do you SEE "nailed to the cross"? A set of stones engraved with the Law of God?

Be simple-minded to be wise.

Christ is God's Law and Laws crucified; ELSE Peter could never have claimed : "THIS JESUS GOD HAS MADE BOTH LORD AND CHRIST" in that He "RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD."

[FONT=&quot] As you SEE Jesus crucified, dying death, and dead, so SEE you "the death of death (the Law) in the death of Christ" (John Owen); and SO, see you the Law of God vindicated, established, PRONOUNCED, once for all in that "God RAISED HIM from the dead" and EXALTED HIM the Law of God vindicated, established, PRONOUNCED, once for all[/FONT]. Unquote.

These are my disagreement:
1. Hosea deals only with the feast day Sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23.
2. That God brought an end to his 7th day Sabbath because Christ has died for mankind and nailed on Christ’ cross, is only GE own assumption and interpretation or what he had been taught, not of the bible teaching.

3. The law is the description of Christ character, but it is not himself. The law is not Christ and Christ is not the law. Christ makes the law; he is the maker and the law giver.; So, when Christ was crucified, didn’t meant his law is crucified too.

All what he has said is against the simple and clear teaching of the Scripture;
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31).
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified (Romans 2:13).
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17,18)
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Mathew 24:35)
The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. (Psalms 111:7-8)
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (Psalms 119:160)
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Hebrews 13:8)

 

[from scratch]

I am confuse about the difference between "with" and "through". Can you explain your position regarding this?

Please consult a dictionary.

 

[from scratch]

I agree with Paul that the law is for the lawless and disobedient, that being under condemnation of the law, they might be led to the Savior for their salvation.

So then how is the law for or an obligation to the Christian. Isn't a Christian righteous?

The law of course was not made for the righteous, if there is no sin in this world.

"All men had sinned and fall short of the glory of God", therefore the law has been made for all.

Yes all the ungocly... Not the Christian.

So, what make you an exception, once you were justified by your faith? Are you now a righteous man after the justification occurred and no longer need the law? Far from it man, you are still an unrighteous sinful man as you were before, only your status in Christ by your faith had changed, God assume you to be righteous, because he sees Christ righteousness in your place, This called the imputed righteousness of Christ, you are released from condemnation of the law.

What makes the Christian an exception is where their righteousness comes from. Jesus said For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Where did the scribes and Pharisees get their righteousness? the law of course. We also see that keeping the law (10 Cs) won't secure eternal life either in Mat 19 and LK 18. Indeed the law - Pentateuch makes no such provision.

It is obvious that the righteousness that comes from the law won't meet the quailfications. Where does the required righteousness come from? From Jesus of course. How? by imputation/declaration Rom 4:4-8. Didn't Jesus say He is the door and any who try to get in some other way are theives and robbers. - John 10:1

But life still going on man! The law is waiting to condemn you again when you sinned, for the wages of sin is death, and those who sin must die.

Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments. So, if you don't keep it because you think it is done away with, what you would become?

I ask what are thecommandments of Jesus? I think you reference John 14:15. Flip the page and read 15:10 and tell me that the commandments Jesus kept are His and not His Father's. What commandments did Jesus keep? The 10 Cs and the rest of the law of course. Jesus said that the commandments He kept were property of His Father. He had to or He would have been a violator and couldn't quailfy as the sacrifice to redeem mankind. Jesus didn't inherit sin or a sin nature. His Father wasn't and isn't Adam as our father is.

If you be led by the Spirit, you will become a righteous man, and sinned no more, therefore you are not under the law condemnation.

The law doesn't apply and we have passed from death (judgement) to life John 5:24.

So?

Why you think because it is not related to the law, then you may make void of the law? Paul said even faith could not make void the law, lest your assumption.

Faith doesn't need to because God (The Father)did and Jesus (God the Son) testified to the fact.

But one thing you are wrong, that what is mentioned in Galatians 5:19, 20 as works of the flesh are strongly connected to the law, because these works is against the spirit of the law, which is love. All there works of the flesh were the expression or manifestation of man's self centered attitude, which is against the law of God.

I have a saying that is becoming recognized - indicence isn't obedience. The focus of Galatian 5 isn't the law. There are similarities yes. Tell me why Paul says to throw out the law in Gal 4:30? Why does Paul say that we're delivered from the law in Rom 7:6 or why is Jesus the end of the law for righteousness in 10:4? Does one sin if they violate the 4th commandment? If they keep it aren't they said to be righteous? Is that not justification by the law?

 

[Arthur57]

So then how is the law for or an obligation to the Christian. Isn't a Christian righteous? Yes all the ungocly... Not the Christian.What makes the Christian an exception is where their righteousness comes from. Jesus said For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Where did the scribes and Pharisees get their righteousness? the law of course. We also see that keeping the law (10 Cs) won't secure eternal life either in Mat 19 and LK 18. Indeed the law - Pentateuch makes no such provision.

It is obvious that the righteousness that comes from the law won't meet the quailfications. Where does the required righteousness come from? From Jesus of course. How? by imputation/declaration Rom 4:4-8. Didn't Jesus say He is the door and any who try to get in some other way are theives and robbers. - John 10:1I ask what are thecommandments of Jesus? I think you reference John 14:15. Flip the page and read 15:10 and tell me that the commandments Jesus kept are His and not His Father's. What commandments did Jesus keep? The 10 Cs and the rest of the law of course. Jesus said that the commandments He kept were property of His Father. He had to or He would have been a violator and couldn't quailfy as the sacrifice to redeem mankind. Jesus didn't inherit sin or a sin nature. His Father wasn't and isn't Adam as our father is. The law doesn't apply and we have passed from death (judgement) to life John 5:24.Faith doesn't need to because God (The Father)did and Jesus (God the Son) testified to the fact.
I have a saying that is becoming recognized - indicence isn't obedience. The focus of Galatian 5 isn't the law. There are similarities yes. Tell me why Paul says to throw out the law in Gal 4:30? Why does Paul say that we're delivered from the law in Rom 7:6 or why is Jesus the end of the law for righteousness in 10:4? Does one sin if they violate the 4th commandment? If they keep it aren't they said to be righteous? Is that not justification by the law?

I believe I had declare my point very well and answer all your questions, it's just you to study it again and compare with the bible, for I knew that you are in the wrong direction.

Jesus is not against his Father by promoting another law. He came to fulfill the law, giving us an example that we who believe him might fulfilled the law too.

Keep studying. GBU

 

[Arthur57]

So then how is the law for or an obligation to the Christian. Isn't a Christian righteous? Yes all the ungocly... Not the Christian.What makes the Christian an exception is where their righteousness comes from. Jesus said For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Where did the scribes and Pharisees get their righteousness? the law of course. We also see that keeping the law (10 Cs) won't secure eternal life either in Mat 19 and LK 18. Indeed the law - Pentateuch makes no such provision.

It is obvious that the righteousness that comes from the law won't meet the quailfications. Where does the required righteousness come from? From Jesus of course. How? by imputation/declaration Rom 4:4-8. Didn't Jesus say He is the door and any who try to get in some other way are theives and robbers. - John 10:1I ask what are thecommandments of Jesus? I think you reference John 14:15. Flip the page and read 15:10 and tell me that the commandments Jesus kept are His and not His Father's. What commandments did Jesus keep? The 10 Cs and the rest of the law of course. Jesus said that the commandments He kept were property of His Father. He had to or He would have been a violator and couldn't quailfy as the sacrifice to redeem mankind. Jesus didn't inherit sin or a sin nature. His Father wasn't and isn't Adam as our father is. The law doesn't apply and we have passed from death (judgement) to life John 5:24.Faith doesn't need to because God (The Father)did and Jesus (God the Son) testified to the fact.
I have a saying that is becoming recognized - indicence isn't obedience. The focus of Galatian 5 isn't the law. There are similarities yes. Tell me why Paul says to throw out the law in Gal 4:30? Why does Paul say that we're delivered from the law in Rom 7:6 or why is Jesus the end of the law for righteousness in 10:4? Does one sin if they violate the 4th commandment? If they keep it aren't they said to be righteous? Is that not justification by the law?

I think you hadn't read and understand my posts well, thus I believe it is my duty to clarify again my position and the Scripture.

1. The difference between the Pharisee and true Christian that Jesus had in mind is the way they got their righteousness. The Pharisees were seeking it through their effort of keeping the law perfectly, they seek righteousness by works. True Christians are seeking righteousness through their faith in Christ, they seek righteousness by faith. The law it self stand as God's standard of righteousness, a mirror, for it discern sin (Romans 3:20; 7:7), to know whether you still stand righteous or a sinner. And if it is God's standard of righteousness, who dare to say that Christian don't need it?
To have the righteousness of the law indeed is Christ ministry from heaven for his believers, his main goal.

2. You said "We also see that keeping the law (10 Cs) won't secure eternal life either in Mat 19 and LK 18. Indeed the law - Pentateuch makes no such provision."

Unfortunately the Scripture said: Romans 2:13 - for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Galatians 3:12 - Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them. If you don't keep it, or if you keep part of it, you break the law and that is sin (James 10: 1 John 3:4). The reason God gave his written law to man because the whole world is under the law's condemnation for their sins, in order they might knew what sin is, for not sinning again, and knew God's standard of righteousness. A righteousness that only the Spirit can fulfilled in those who keep it (Romans 8:4).

3. You said: "It is obvious that the righteousness that comes from the law won't meet the qualifications".

The law is holy, just and good (Romans 7:12), its righteousness is the main target for Christ through his Spirit to be fulfilled in his believers hearts and life. But those who seeks righteousness by the law through their own effort, could not qualify to the righteousness the law demands, and be still under the law condemnation, for only by the Spirit, the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in them who walk after the Spirit.

4. You said:"Where does the required righteousness come from? From Jesus of course. How? by imputation/declaration Rom 4:4-8. "

Romans 4:4-8 tells God's act in accounting a believer righteous because of his faith in Christ. This is God's initial justification to a believer who repent from his sins. "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness"-Romans 4:5. You were a sinner justified by grace. But life goes on, from then on you must raise your standard of life to heavenly standard and not come back to the daily life style you were used too. This is what grace all about (Titus 2:11-14; 3:4-6). This is what God's wants to do in you as according to his covenant with man (Ezekiel 36:26,27; Jeremiah 31:31-34). And repeated by Paul in Romans 8:4. The goal is to be justified to enter God's Kingdom for eternal life. A justification from God that you received because you are truly righteous in and out your self. You are no longer a sinner justified by faith, but a holy righteous man justified for his faith.

The righteousness you get at your initial justification has nothing to do with your law's obedience, for you were a law's transgressor. But your righteousness at your final justification is a righteousness of the law fulfilled in you who had walk by the Spirit after all.

5. You said: "I ask what are thecommandments of Jesus? I think you reference John 14:15. Flip the page and read 15:10 and tell me that the commandments Jesus kept are His and not His Father's. What commandments did Jesus keep? The 10 Cs and the rest of the law of course. Jesus said that the commandments He kept were property of His Father. He had to or He would have been a violator and couldn't quailfy as the sacrifice to redeem mankind."

You are a confused man.

6. You said: "Tell me why Paul says to throw out the law in Gal 4:30?"
Already answered.

7. You said: "or why is Jesus the end of the law for righteousness in 10:4?" Already answered.

8. You said: "Does one sin if they violate the 4th commandment?"
Surely he did, because sin is transgression of the law - 1 John 3:4.

9. You said: "If they keep it aren't they said to be righteous? Is that not justification by the law?"

At the Day of Judgment, all men will stand before God's holy law, which is his standard of righteousness. Those who are justified by the law for their righteousness, will received God's justification for his faith, the final justification that qualify him to enter heaven for eternal life, and those who didn't passed, falls under the law's condemnation, and hell is their place to die, for the wages of sin is death.

So, justification by the law, is not an opinion of some one in regards others obedience.

---------------------------
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Matthew 6:33.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I am not clear, whether you asked me or GE to present a defense, but any way I would declare why I disagree with GE.

This is what GE said that I disagree:
Quote.
Hosea deals with ALL Israel's 'sabbaths', including the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD God so PERVERTED by Israel.

And even Hosea or not Hosea, God brought an end to ALL sabbaths AND his Own Holy Day the Seventh Day of the week : THROUGH AND IN JESUS CHRIST CRUCIFIED AND NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN "OUT OF THE WAY" UNTO REDEMPTION. Because that "WAY" of Redemption is Christ Jesus; no Law could stand in his way; no death; no condemnation.

I always ask, WHAT do you SEE "nailed to the cross"? A set of stones engraved with the Law of God?

Be simple-minded to be wise.

Christ is God's Law and Laws crucified; ELSE Peter could never have claimed : "THIS JESUS GOD HAS MADE BOTH LORD AND CHRIST" in that He "RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD."

[FONT=&quot] As you SEE Jesus crucified, dying death, and dead, so SEE you "the death of death (the Law) in the death of Christ" (John Owen); and SO, see you the Law of God vindicated, established, PRONOUNCED, once for all in that "God RAISED HIM from the dead" and EXALTED HIM the Law of God vindicated, established, PRONOUNCED, once for all[/FONT]. Unquote.

These are my disagreement:
1. Hosea deals only with the feast day Sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23.
2. That God brought an end to his 7th day Sabbath because Christ has died for mankind and nailed on Christ’ cross, is only GE own assumption and interpretation or what he had been taught, not of the bible teaching.

3. The law is the description of Christ character, but it is not himself. The law is not Christ and Christ is not the law. Christ makes the law; he is the maker and the law giver.; So, when Christ was crucified, didn’t meant his law is crucified too.

All what he has said is against the simple and clear teaching of the Scripture;
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31).
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified (Romans 2:13).
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17,18)
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Mathew 24:35)
The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. (Psalms 111:7-8)
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (Psalms 119:160)
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Hebrews 13:8)

GE:

GE responds:
Re: Arthur 57,
“These are my disagreement:
1. Hosea deals only with the feast day Sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23.

Well, frankly, are we talking about Hosea or about Leviticus?

And I can only read “your sabbaths” in there in Hosea; I find nothing of “only … the feast day Sabbaths”. Hosea presupposes GOD’S sabbath as Israel perverted them.

The same as Hosea presupposes the GOD of Israel whom they claimed they knew, “My God we know Thee”, yet they knew HIM not, but ‘set up’ their idols and worshipped them as if they were God. See chapter 8.


GE responds:
Re: Arthur 57,
“2. That God brought an end to his 7th day Sabbath because Christ has died for mankind and nailed on Christ’ cross, is only GE own assumption and interpretation or what he had been taught, not of the bible teaching.”

Again I shall ask you, Arthur 57, Do you see “(God’s) 7th day Sabbath” nailed to the cross?
You don’t?

Then how say you, you see “the feast day Sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23” nailed to the cross?

Instead, Arthur 57, is it Jesus God’s Christ you see nailed to the cross?
You do?!

So I rest my case…


GE responds:
Re: Arthur 57,
“3. The law is the description of Christ character, but it is not himself. The law is not Christ and Christ is not the law.”

I could ask the same things as above …. but won’t become tedious. I’ll rather directly correct you, that it is so, “The law is not Christ”, BUT it is NOT so, that “Christ is not the law”. Christ IS ‘The Law’; He is God’s Living Law in Person being God’s Living Word in Person— which truth I need not even try explain knowing you full well agree with that Truth. Yes, Jesus Christ was and is what you called, God’s Character. You perhaps think the written Laws could be the character of God better explained and exposed? The “sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23” could? The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD, could? I know you won’t!

God’s ‘Character’, his Glory, his Honour, IS WHAT WE SEE NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY in Colossians 2:14 : Jesus the Christ, Son of Man and Son of God : "NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN "OUT OF THE WAY" : God’s ‘Character’, his Glory, his Honour, his LAW : “IN” HIM, and “WITH” HIM, and through Him and by Him according to the same Scripture verses 12-13 exactly “ON THE CROSS”, “the all in all fulfilling fullness of GOD”!

Because – GE responding to, Re: Arthur 57 – “Christ makes the law; he is the maker and the law giver. So, when Christ was crucified…”, it “meant his law is crucified too.”

Therefore, all what I said is the simple and clear teaching of the Scripture…
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)……Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8)”.

 

[Arthur57]

GE:

GE responds:
Re: Arthur 57,
“These are my disagreement:
1. Hosea deals only with the feast day Sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23.

Well, frankly, are we talking about Hosea or about Leviticus?

And I can only read “your sabbaths” in there in Hosea; I find nothing of “only … the feast day Sabbaths”. Hosea presupposes GOD’S sabbath as Israel perverted them.

The same as Hosea presupposes the GOD of Israel whom they claimed they knew, “My God we know Thee”, yet they knew HIM not, but ‘set up’ their idols and worshipped them as if they were God. See chapter 8.

Hosea 2:11 - I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths— All her appointed feasts.

What is said in Hosea is the same as presented in Leviticus 23, about God proclaiming feast days, new moons, and Israel sabbaths, which he said "your sabath." Levi. 23:32.

But regarding the 7th day Sabbath God said "Sabath of the Lord" (Exodus 20:10; Levi. 23:23, 38; Deutero 5:14) or "My Sabbath" (Levi 19:30; Exodus 31:13; Isaiah 56:4; Ezekiel 20:12-28).

That is the point, there is "your sabbath" a feast day, Israeli sabath and there is "My Sabbath" or "Sabath of the Lord", the 7th day Sabbath.

GE responds:
Re: Arthur 57,
“2. That God brought an end to his 7th day Sabbath because Christ has died for mankind and nailed on Christ’ cross, is only GE own assumption and interpretation or what he had been taught, not of the bible teaching.”

Again I shall ask you, Arthur 57, Do you see “(God’s) 7th day Sabbath” nailed to the cross?
You don’t?

Then how say you, you see “the feast day Sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23” nailed to the cross?

Instead, Arthur 57, is it Jesus God’s Christ you see nailed to the cross?
You do?!

So I rest my case…

I can show you many verses regarding The feast day sabbath nailed to the cross as according to so many verses misinterpreted the feast day sabbath as the 7th day Sabbath. For example Col. 2:14,16, 17. The text you used to support your view.

GE responds:
Re: Arthur 57,
“3. The law is the description of Christ character, but it is not himself. The law is not Christ and Christ is not the law.”

I could ask the same things as above …. but won’t become tedious. I’ll rather directly correct you, that it is so, “The law is not Christ”, BUT it is NOT so, that “Christ is not the law”. Christ IS ‘The Law’; He is God’s Living Law in Person being God’s Living Word in Person— which truth I need not even try explain knowing you full well agree with that Truth. Yes, Jesus Christ was and is what you called, God’s Character. You perhaps think the written Laws could be the character of God better explained and exposed? The “sabbaths as presented in Leviticus 23” could? The Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD, could? I know you won’t!

God’s ‘Character’, his Glory, his Honour, IS WHAT WE SEE NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY in Colossians 2:14 : Jesus the Christ, Son of Man and Son of God : "NAILED TO THE CROSS AND TAKEN "OUT OF THE WAY" : God’s ‘Character’, his Glory, his Honour, his LAW : “IN” HIM, and “WITH” HIM, and through Him and by Him according to the same Scripture verses 12-13 exactly “ON THE CROSS”, “the all in all fulfilling fullness of GOD”!

What hang on the cross is Christ the Son of Man to redeem mankind and with that establish his holy law, for he died to redeem those who break his law. And since he could not change the punishment (death), he must and die in our place. A pity that people see the law that Jesus glorified with his life and death as burdensome and thinking all whatever texts in the bible to support their view that this law has been nailed to his cross. This is Satan intention and the most successive work he has done on earth to deceive mankind.

Because – GE responding to, Re: Arthur 57 – “Christ makes the law; he is the maker and the law giver. So, when Christ was crucified…”, it “meant his law is crucified too.”

Therefore, all what I said is the simple and clear teaching of the Scripture…
“Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. (Romans 3:31)……Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8)”.

What is established by faith? The Law! For what? To be kept and honored as it is the commandments of God for mankind to guide them to Jesus for righteousness by faith.

I don't know how could you get your righteousness without the law?

 

[from scratch]

I believe I had declare my point very well and answer all your questions, it's just you to study it again and compare with the bible, for I knew that you are in the wrong direction.

Jesus is not against his Father by promoting another law. He came to fulfill the law, giving us an example that we who believe him might fulfilled the law too.

Keep studying. GBU

Please reread my post as I answered point by point with you. I even agreed on some points.

Now you really think I'm going to come to a different conclusion with no outside input. So tell me what I should be looking for to come to your view point. Thanks.