Does righteousness ...

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

PART 2 here,
But with the ESV, or KJV, the conclusion is the same:

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesusfrom the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
(Romans 8:1-11)

With regard to why I said there are a limited number of sins was to convey the idea that sin, isnt a part of the Christian life, as if the Christian life includes sinning, as the forgone conclusion of what will happen. I also said, there "might be" sin, not "there will be; the person is a believer, but in sin he ceases to be a follower, and must repent, and be reconciled or continue to be in danger of hellfire.



To respond to this the number of sins, does not matter, Christ has atoned for all the believers sins, in the sense that he is the propitiation, where we go to for the forgiveness of sins, essentially, as repentant sorrowful ones, we go to Christ, and through him our sins are forgiven. However, to say that all sin, even willful undying rebellion to God is atoned for, essentially, turning the grace of God into lewdness, that is not forgiven unless repentance takes place. Clearly, as 1 Cor 6:9 puts forth, no adulterer has inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. The adulterer must cease his adultery, seek God, and continue in Christ.
I do not view Christ, in the protestant sense of it, as a "payment", as if our sins were paid for in advance, and can no longer be held against us. That would otherwise mean, adulterers who continue in adultery, have their sins paid for, and there sins cannot be punished. The "payment" rather seems like a payment, for a specific number of sins, and since the specific number of sins, that all believers will ever commit has been paid for, it cannot be unpaid for, and even the adulterers, for example, cannot be denied enterance into paradise.
However, as you say, there can be no "merit" on our part.

"Weymouth New Testament,
For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is God's gift, and is not on the ground of merit--"
Not on the ground of merit, surely, but why then does Paul write 1 Cor 6:8, or
Eph 5:
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
You'd have to ask, what does morality or obedience have to do with salvation? It's not "of" works. Salvation isnt "of" works, as in, the root of, or the source of our salvation is grace, but it is through faith, but even faith itself is not the source, but grace is. Therefore, it is by grace, as the root, the source, and what follows, through faith, not as the root, but an key element, but not by a dead faith, but a living faith that is of a born-again person, not carnal, but spiritual. So in the same sense that faith is important, and mandatory, yet not the root, or source, works, which follow the living faith are essential, although not the root, for the root is not works or faith, but grace.

The same grace;
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

As I understand, Grace is the power of God, that is the influence of God in this sense, of saving grace. Grace does something great.

About the red, Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness.
I understand the Romans 7:14 man to be carnal, sold under sin, unredeemed, hence of course, sold under sin, not Christ.

Now, regarding this redemption. We are ransomed.

1Tim2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, 2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. 3 This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

In the teal, can this be done, living godly, in the carnal life?
In green, knowledge of the truth, we know that "you shall know the truth and the truth will make you free"
In red, mediator, we confess repentantly and are forgiven.
In purple, a ransom, not exactly a "payment" for a specific amount of sins, but rather, we are purchased from sin, not sins paid for, but we are paid for, we are redeemed, not sin, but the man, bought from the law of sin and death, and redeemed into the light of Christ.

As for still carrying the old man, and the lusts of the flesh.
The lusts of the flesh, do exist, but in they way that I mean, fleshly human desires do exist, and they can lead to sin, if the lust is concieved and then sin is born, bringing death. As the James 1 passage says. So, even with fleshly desire, temptation will come surely, but sin is not the forgone conclusion of temptation, resisting the Devil, submitting to God, must be our response if we are to live holy lives.

Now, about the old man:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (Rom 6:6)
I would say, might be, because I believe continuing to have the old man crucified is a choice.

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Eph 4:22-24) Put off, meaning it's something we choose to do, we can put on the old man, if we choose, so yes, it is possible to become again, like the old man, and put him on. We must keep on, the new man, being renewed.
My view doesnt allow for putting the old man and the new man on at the same time, but at seperate times by our choice.

Regarding justification, in short, if we overcome as the new man, by our living faith, saved by grace which is the source, we are saved. However,

Heb 12:
14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

We need to be holy, as to say, our faith must be living, which produces holiness.
We can fail the grace of God, as in, the grace of God, which does work, the faith, became dead, not alive. A root of bitterness may arise, or sin, such as fornication, which if happens becomes a dead faith, the old man is put on again. Repentance, in it, we reclaim our living faith, and are indeed saved by grace.
I do not hold to the protestent view that we have the record of Christ righteousness, for if we did, why repent, or what is the imperitive in the above?
See my sig. for details.

"the full testimony of Scripture is that man is sinful and will sin, and anyone who says they are without sin is a liar"

The unregenerate man is sinful, as the men in Noah's days. But Noah found grace in God's eyes, and so did Job, who was blameless, the parents of John the Baptist, in Luke 1:4 or 6, too. They were not without sin, (well, im betting they never commited huge sins, murder, adultery, etc) but they were living holy lives.

God Bless.

Here is some scripture to read.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Romans 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Revelation 15:3-4
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

 

[Near]

The Romans 7 present tense does not conclude that Paul was a saved carnal man.
At most, keeping Paul as a sinner in rom 7 now, it will suggest that when paired along with Romans 6 and 8, with seven in between, he was not sinning while writing Romans 6 and he was sinning literally while penning down Romans 7, and was an unsaved man, carnally minded, sold under sin as it's slave, since he had earlier stated:

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:16-18 NKJV)

So he was a slave to sin, as a sinner, while penning down romans 7:14-25ish, if he was actually refering to himself. No where in the verse does it even say he was saved!
In fact that's the assumption that OSAS believers read in, presuming, "of course he's saved while sinning, yeah he's carnal, and saved, such a wretched sinner, like me cheating on my wife in my mind daily, getting drunk, or being a sodomite"

He literally says, he is sold under sin.

Meaning he is unsaved in that state, it even says
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (Romans 7:23 NKJV)

He is in the "captivity" of the law of sin.

Now the grand question is posed while sinning while writing his letter.

O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24, 25 NKJV)

Is he still under the law of sin as the carnal man? Yes, he even says so.

Now let us not leave Paul as a wretched man continuing in his sin, but let us move to Romans 8

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2 NKJV)

Alright Paul just got free of the law of sin which he just said he was a captive of!

Now, go and sin no more.

Read Romans 6&8.

Are you the carnal man in the captivity of the law of sin, or the spirtual man, not walking according to the flesh, who has been freed from the law of sin which was just previously mentioned by Paul as what he was just in captivity of?

This really seems comical now, but not in a good way, I hope I have made things clear.
If its true Paul was the carnal man of rom 7, he had later become the saved man of rom 8.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

The Romans 7 present tense does not conclude that Paul was a saved carnal man.
At most, keeping Paul as a sinner in rom 7 now, it will suggest that when paired along with Romans 6 and 8, with seven in between, he was not sinning while writing Romans 6 and he was sinning literally while penning down Romans 7, and was an unsaved man, carnally minded, sold under sin as it's slave, since he had earlier stated:

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:16-18 NKJV)

So he was a slave to sin, as a sinner, while penning down romans 7:14-25ish, if he was actually refering to himself. No where in the verse does it even say he was saved!
In fact that's the assumption that OSAS believers read in, presuming, "of course he's saved while sinning, yeah he's carnal, and saved, such a wretched sinner, like me cheating on my wife in my mind daily, getting drunk, or being a sodomite"

He literally says, he is sold under sin.

Meaning he is unsaved in that state, it even says
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (Romans 7:23 NKJV)

He is in the "captivity" of the law of sin.

Now the grand question is posed while sinning while writing his letter.

O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?

I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:24, 25 NKJV)

Is he still under the law of sin as the carnal man? Yes, he even says so.

Now let us not leave Paul as a wretched man continuing in his sin, but let us move to Romans 8

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2 NKJV)

Alright Paul just got free of the law of sin which he just said he was a captive of!

Now, go and sin no more.

Read Romans 6&8.

Are you the carnal man in the captivity of the law of sin, or the spirtual man, not walking according to the flesh, who has been freed from the law of sin which was just previously mentioned by Paul as what he was just in captivity of?

This really seems comical now, but not in a good way, I hope I have made things clear.
If its true Paul was the carnal man of rom 7, he had later become the saved man of rom 8.

Paul wrote in the present tense. You are trying to get around it and you cannot.

I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, have all my sins paid for and forgiven.
I have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[Near]

Here is some scripture to read.

The following three verses were provided. Nothing has been said about them but they have been listed.
I will illustrate one thing, Jesus said, Go and sin
...but now you're wondering, that cant be right. No he said it, but that's not complete.
he said, "Go and sin, no more"
What the person I am replying to has done is somewhat similar to this, especially in regards to the Romans 7 passage, he leaves out the answer to it, Jesus Christ, which is expounded upon in Romans 8, freeing him from the law of sin, that he was just captive under in Romans 7. Romans 8 is the freed man, where as Romans 7 is a captive of sin, a slave, sold under it, carnal, where as the Romans 8 man is not of the flesh, but of the spirit.
Even so, Romans 7 is in present tense, for the sake of the arguement, I will let you say it was literally Paul as the Romans wretch while penning down Romans 7, but immediately later, he writes Romans 8, in which he is freed from sin, not carnal as he just was seconds earlier (that is, if he was literally the Romans 7 wretch while penning down it). I encourage you to pray to God, not with the intent to merely debate me, but seek the light, the truth. If you have not prayed to God on this, you truly are the Romans 7 slave of sin, not the Romans 8 man led by the Spirit of God. Pray to God.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:12
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

As with these verses, I will make a few comments.
Yes, there are righteous ones. Jesus Christ the Righteous. Yes, there are those who do good, God is one.
Wrong, not all have sinned, God has never sinned.
While it may seem like I'm merely being a joker I assure you there is a point.

Who is being spoken of?
Certainly not God.
I will post what I consider to be a fuller context:

Romans 3:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

I will now post a few other verses:

Job 1:1There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God and shunned evil.
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Luke 1:5&6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
1Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

-We have a man who has feared God.
-We have Abel who was righteous.
-We have both Zacharias and his wife, both righteous.
-We know that the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and that would be anyone who truly follows Christ, led by the Spirit, not the flesh.
Also, to comment on 1Peter 3:12, do not do evil, or the face of the Lord will be against you.

So, how do we resolve this apparent, contradiction?
Easy.
"we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin"
The only logical explanation left is that, Jews as well as Gentiles, are under sin, both as organizations/groups. Futhermore, all doesnt always mean all, in the hebrew or greek, it's not the same understanding we have with our "all", their all, can be more of a generalized all. Please see this article: In the Bible "all" doesn't always mean "all" - National methodist | Examiner.com

Yes our bible is in english, but the originals were not.

Next,

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Revelation 15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

Matt 12:35
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Luke23:50
And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counseller; and he was a good man, and a just:
Acts 11:22-24
Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.

Are the athiest right? Are there horrid contradictions in the bible?
Actually, God is on a whole different scale of good, since he is the epitome of Good and Holy, where as a man can indeed be good, or righteous, or holy, fuffilling the imperative to be holy, even as HE is holy.

Romans 10:3-4
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I'm not sure what the arguement was here, but to comment:
I will post the first two verses of Ch10.

Rom 10:1&2
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

-This speaks of those of the nation of Israel, Jews pretty much, who dont know the salvation through Christ, they actually had something called the oral law, but to be brief, once you break the law, you need to be reconciled to God, and without that you cant be righteous. Reconciliation is through Christ, by faith that is alive, not dead. The unbelieving jews did not have faith in Christ, and therefore their attempts at excelling in the law, which they had broken, would not make them righteous, being unreconciled, their faith not counted/imputed, because of a lack of faith.
Also, source: Romans 10:4 - Messiah-likeness is the goal

In most bibles Romans 10:4 reads:

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."​

That seems pretty straightforward, doesn't it? Christ is the cessation of the Torah, period.
Well, not really. The word translated "end" is telos (Strongs #5056), from which we get words like telemetry. Of the 42 times it is used in the NT, it means "cessation, finish, termination" only 4 or 5. The great majority of the time it means "goal, purpose, outcome, result." 1Peter 1:9 is a good example:

"receiving the end of your faith - the salvation of your souls."​

It is antinomian Church Tradition which leads to translating telos as "end" in Rom 10:4. A better translation would be:

"Messiah is the goal of the Torah, for righteousness to everyone who believes."​

Messiah-likeness has always been the goal of the Torah of faith. It still is.

Romans 7:14-25 has been adressed clearly.

Romans7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
(...)
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

This has been adressed, I will ask.
Is the Romans 7 man, in the same state of the Romans 8 man?
Argruendo, Paul is the Romans 7 man, but he cannot be the Romans 8 man, at the same exact time.
The Romans 7 man, arguendo, is Paul while writting, he says implies, or rather makes certain, he is not saved, by written that he is carnal sold under sin. The Romans 8 man, has been freed.

Quickly now, compare the two verses from above in Romans 7 with the following verses of Romans 8.

Romans 8: 1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Is he captive in the law of sin and in death? Or is he free from it now?

The state of the Romans 7 carnal man, therefore logically cannot be the state of the person who is free from the Law of sin and death, the Romans 8 spiritual man. Please see my earlier posts for more detail.

Romans 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

Paul speaks of hypocrites who judge others.
He later writes:

Romans 2:21-24: Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

They boasted in the law, yet they actually were law breakers, not "so-called" law abiders as some seem to think. Undoubtably, the gentiles saw their hypocrisy, and scoffed, "oh look at those adulterers". Much like today with Muslims, and atheists, scoffing, blaspheming God, because of the hypocrisy of many churches which contain the unrighteous, pastors who sleep with women in the churches, child molesting youth pastors, horrid abominable things, no wonder they mock what is called Christianity.

Matt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

We must first fix ourselves, then we can help others.

May God help you open your eyes to the truth. Pray that for yourself as well, and that any inner guile, or uncleanliness may be revealed that it may be removed.

God Bless.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

The following three verses were provided. Nothing has been said about them but they have been listed.
I will illustrate one thing, Jesus said, Go and sin
...but now you're wondering, that cant be right. No he said it, but that's not complete.
he said, "Go and sin, no more"
What the person I am replying to has done is somewhat similar to this, especially in regards to the Romans 7 passage, he leaves out the answer to it, Jesus Christ, which is expounded upon in Romans 8, freeing him from the law of sin, that he was just captive under in Romans 7. Romans 8 is the freed man, where as Romans 7 is a captive of sin, a slave, sold under it, carnal, where as the Romans 8 man is not of the flesh, but of the spirit.
Even so, Romans 7 is in present tense, for the sake of the arguement, I will let you say it was literally Paul as the Romans wretch while penning down Romans 7, but immediately later, he writes Romans 8, in which he is freed from sin, not carnal as he just was seconds earlier (that is, if he was literally the Romans 7 wretch while penning down it). I encourage you to pray to God, not with the intent to merely debate me, but seek the light, the truth. If you have not prayed to God on this, you truly are the Romans 7 slave of sin, not the Romans 8 man led by the Spirit of God. Pray to God.



As with these verses, I will make a few comments.
Yes, there are righteous ones. Jesus Christ the Righteous. Yes, there are those who do good, God is one.
Wrong, not all have sinned, God has never sinned.
While it may seem like I'm merely being a joker I assure you there is a point.

Who is being spoken of?
Certainly not God.
I will post what I consider to be a fuller context:



I will now post a few other verses:

-We have a man who has feared God.
-We have Abel who was righteous.
-We have both Zacharias and his wife, both righteous.
-We know that the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and that would be anyone who truly follows Christ, led by the Spirit, not the flesh.
Also, to comment on 1Peter 3:12, do not do evil, or the face of the Lord will be against you.

So, how do we resolve this apparent, contradiction?
Easy.
"we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin"
The only logical explanation left is that, Jews as well as Gentiles, are under sin, both as organizations/groups. Futhermore, all doesnt always mean all, in the hebrew or greek, it's not the same understanding we have with our "all", their all, can be more of a generalized all. Please see this article: In the Bible "all" doesn't always mean "all" - National methodist | Examiner.com

Yes our bible is in english, but the originals were not.

Next,





Are the athiest right? Are there horrid contradictions in the bible?
Actually, God is on a whole different scale of good, since he is the epitome of Good and Holy, where as a man can indeed be good, or righteous, or holy, fuffilling the imperative to be holy, even as HE is holy.




I'm not sure what the arguement was here, but to comment:
I will post the first two verses of Ch10.



-This speaks of those of the nation of Israel, Jews pretty much, who dont know the salvation through Christ, they actually had something called the oral law, but to be brief, once you break the law, you need to be reconciled to God, and without that you cant be righteous. Reconciliation is through Christ, by faith that is alive, not dead. The unbelieving jews did not have faith in Christ, and therefore their attempts at excelling in the law, which they had broken, would not make them righteous, being unreconciled, their faith not counted/imputed, because of a lack of faith.
Also, source: Romans 10:4 - Messiah-likeness is the goal


Romans 7:14-25 has been adressed clearly.



This has been adressed, I will ask.
Is the Romans 7 man, in the same state of the Romans 8 man?
Argruendo, Paul is the Romans 7 man, but he cannot be the Romans 8 man, at the same exact time.
The Romans 7 man, arguendo, is Paul while writting, he says implies, or rather makes certain, he is not saved, by written that he is carnal sold under sin. The Romans 8 man, has been freed.

Quickly now, compare the two verses from above in Romans 7 with the following verses of Romans 8.



Is he captive in the law of sin and in death? Or is he free from it now?

The state of the Romans 7 carnal man, therefore logically cannot be the state of the person who is free from the Law of sin and death, the Romans 8 spiritual man. Please see my earlier posts for more detail.




Paul speaks of hypocrites who judge others.
He later writes:



They boasted in the law, yet they actually were law breakers, not "so-called" law abiders as some seem to think. Undoubtably, the gentiles saw their hypocrisy, and scoffed, "oh look at those adulterers". Much like today with Muslims, and atheists, scoffing, blaspheming God, because of the hypocrisy of many churches which contain the unrighteous, pastors who sleep with women in the churches, child molesting youth pastors, horrid abominable things, no wonder they mock what is called Christianity.



We must first fix ourselves, then we can help others.

May God help you open your eyes to the truth. Pray that for yourself as well, and that any inner guile, or uncleanliness may be revealed that it may be removed.

God Bless.

Obviously Matthew 7:5 applies to you.

In Romans 2 they boasted in the law. But it seems that you do to and I know you do not keep the commandments in your flesh.

In Romans 2:3 Paul speak of anyone who judges that someone else is not saved because of sin and they think they are righteousness enough to earn salvation.
That is why Paul wrote in Romans 2:1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest"

Romans 8:1 means to be free from the consequence of sin.That is why it is the law of sin and death.

Romans 7:14-25 is present tense. Your attempt to explain that away shows the word of God is against your theory. That is actually a sin. Please note that Romans 7:1-14 was past tense.

Romans 10:1-4 is about anyone trying to show their righteousness and not admitting they are ungodly. It applied to Israel but it also applies to anyone who attempts their own righteousness Why is there 2 gospels? No. You pick which righteousness you want to be judges by: yours which is none and assured damnation or the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ, You only get one pick.

No one but God is righteous. Anyone else had imputed righteousness.

Sorry but you failed to "explain away" the scripture I gave you.

 

[Near]

Paul wrote in the present tense. You are trying to get around it and you cannot.
I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, have all my sins paid for and forgiven.
I have the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ.

I am not going to say you are not a christian, and by that definition, affiliated with Christianity, but I will question your theology.

Paul wrote in the present tense, and I have already explained clearly, he was in captivity of the law of sin as the carnal man, but later as the spiritual man of Romans 8, he was freed from the law of sin and death. Logically, he cannot be the Romans 7 carnal man, and the Romans 8 spritual man at the same time.

Matt 7:15-20
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

You cannot be carnal and spiritual at the same time.


For the next passage: Who is God's elect, anyone who merely reads and believes Paul's section of Romans 8:33-39? What if a Buhhdist were to read this passage, and believe it thinking it refers to himself. You must meet the qualities of God's elect to be sure you are of the faith, and we can know who is of God, by their fruit, whether good or evil, spiritual or carnal.

Romans 8:33-39
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall
(1)tribulation,
or (2)distress,
or (3)persecution,
or (4)famine,
or (5)nakedness,
or (6)peril,
or (7)sword?
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither
(8)death, nor
(9)life, nor
(10)angels, nor
(11)principalities, nor
(12)powers, nor
(13)things present, nor
(14)things to come,
(15)Nor height,
(16)nor depth,
(17)nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Inner darkness, sin, was not mentioned.

I will post the following verses,

1John 1:5-10
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Quickly, to note the green, to have sin does not mean to commit sin, have=/=commit, the expression rather means something like, to have sin, as in the guilt that is of sin, which we have done it is on our account, but if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us. Note, confession is more than saying a sin you did, you must come with a repentant heart, and intend to not sin, also I will say you must make it your goal to strive to be holy, and maintain that, otherwise you have guile in your heart, for you have not choosen to be dedicated to God, and will allow yourself to stray after that confession. Please read the section refering to 1 John 1:8, in Daniel Steele's "Half Hours with St. John's Epistles" for more information: COMMENTARY ON 1 JOHN 1 by Daniel Steele

Now, regarding the red, walking in darkness, aka sin, means we do not have fellowship with Him. Shall we say

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall inherit the kingdom of God? Ye shall sin and not die(thus saith the serpant in the Garden), fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, effeminate, abusers of themselves with mankind, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God, as long as they believe they are saved by grace through faith, and that the blood of Christ covers them in sin, even while sinning, because Christ's righteousness is transacted into their account. And such are some of you: but ye are legally washed, but ye are legally sanctified, but ye are legally justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God, even though you still commit those sin, ye are legally called saved, yes even the worst of sinners. (1 Satan 6:9-11)

compare with:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (1 Cor 6:9-11)

(dead or alive faith doesnt matter, ignoring James 2, and Paul)

There is a huge difference between a dead faith and a living faith.
We are saved by grace, through a living faith, not of works, surely, works are not the source of our salvation neither is faith.
Shall I then say, We are saved by grace, not of faith, surely not, because faith is how we are saved, but can we have a mere belief and be wicked in our lives, commiting all sorts of sins? Surely not. Because that would be a dead faith, and faith without works is dead as James says.

Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Righteousness comes by faith, that is alive, not dead. Our faith is counted, imputed, as righteous, but Christ's righteousness is not transfered to our account. Our faith is accounted/imputed as righteousness.

Hebrews 12: 14-17
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

My last questions:

HOW, can any man fail, the grace of God, by which we are saved by?
If we fail the grace of God, what is the consequnce which is so clearly said in the previous verse?
"Shall not inherit the kingdom of heaven"?
"Shall not see the Lord"?

Are our sins paid for? or was atonement made for sin, that they may be forgiven when we have a true confession?

We are paid for, if we are indeed shown to be his.

We are RANSOMED, from sin and death, and by his grace we are saved, and what does that grace do?

Titus2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

How do we fail the grace of God? By rejecting the power of his grace which trains us to cease our evils, and be holy.

Our sins are not "paid" for, propitiation was made in order that we might be reconciled by grace through a living faith, not failing the grace of God, as a dead faith does.

Hosea 13:14
I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Mark 10:41 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister(teach, grace trains us), and to give his life a ransom for many.

Ransomed from sin and death, and redeemed by the blood, sins atoned for through that by repentence of a living faith that works by love.

God bless
May this be light to anyone's eyes who desires to be free from sin and death.

 

[Near]

Obviously Matthew 7:5 applies to you.

In Romans 2 they boasted in the law. But it seems that you do to and I know you do not keep the commandments in your flesh.

In Romans 2:3 Paul speak of anyone who judges that someone else is not saved because of sin and they think they are righteousness enough to earn salvation.
That is why Paul wrote in Romans 2:1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest"

Romans 8:1 means to be free from the consequence of sin.That is why it is the law of sin and death.

Romans 7:14-25 is present tense. Your attempt to explain that away shows the word of God is against your theory. That is actually a sin. Please note that Romans 7:1-14 was past tense.

Romans 10:1-4 is about anyone trying to show their righteousness and not admitting they are ungodly. It applied to Israel but it also applies to anyone who attempts their own righteousness Why is there 2 gospels? No. You pick which righteousness you want to be judges by: yours which is none and assured damnation or the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ, You only get one pick.

No one but God is righteous. Anyone else had imputed righteousness.

Sorry but you failed to "explain away" the scripture I gave you.

You make it seem as it is impossible to remove the plank from one's own eye. Is that you view?
Surely Christ has made it clear, we can "remove the plank from" our own eyes.

In Romans 2 they boasted in the law. But it seems that you do to and I know you do not keep the commandments in your flesh.

How do you know, it's clearly possible to keep the commandments, I just posted earlier,
Christians are not in the flesh,

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

and also,

1 John 5:
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

That's how we know we are in him, IF we keep his commandments, and they are not grievous.

In Romans 2:3 Paul speak of anyone who judges that someone else is not saved because of sin and they think they are righteousness enough to earn salvation.
That is why Paul wrote in Romans 2:1 "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest" ...

Actually, you did not quote all of Romans 2:1
the full verse says:

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

This speaks of judging people hyprocritcally, lets say, if I had a lustful heart still, and I judged a homosexual, I would be a hypocrite, my judgement would judge me right back.

It in no way says," Paul speak of anyone who judges that someone else is not saved because of sin and they think they are righteousness enough to earn salvation."

People are not saved because they continue in sin, but our own deeds do not save us, but grace which trains us, does save us, by a faith that works by love, not failing the grace of God.

No one can do enough righteous deeds to save himself, only by grace through a living faith, and righteousness is evident in such people who are saved.

1 John 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

I get to pick which righteousness I want to be judged by?
Mine or Jesus?
First off, righteousness doesnt save us, but...

Galatians 6: 7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Grace is what essentially saves us, not righteousness as the root of salvation. Righteousness is the fruit of a living faith.

Romans 8:1 means to be free from the consequence of sin.That is why it is the law of sin and death.

Ah, but we are saved from the law of it, but are we merely declared saved from it? No, for grace influences us to depart from sin, and by faith we live right. Those living according to the flesh are in the captivity of the law of sin and death. Those who live to the spirit, they are freed.

as evident:

Romans 8:
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

As for Romans 7, my response is Romans 8. Are you a Romans 7 wretch, carnally minded? or a Romans 8 spiritual man, led by God, doing his commandments?

Romans 10:1-4 is about anyone trying to show their righteousness and not admitting they are ungodly. It applied to Israel but it also applies to anyone who attempts their own righteousness Why is there 2 gospels? No. You pick which righteousness you want to be judges by: yours which is none and assured damnation or the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ, You only get one pick.

We arent saved by righteousness, but by Grace, the question posed is a false dichotomy.
I dont believe in penalty substitution or "righteousness transfer from Jesus to me".
I believe in Ransom from sin and death, and righteousness imputed because of a faith deemed living by God.

May God open your eyes somehow, with the power of his grace, he loved us while we were still sinners, law breakers, but now we do not go against him, because we love him, and keep his commandments, and they are not greivous. Have a living faith.

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

You make it seem as it is impossible to remove the plank from one's own eye. Is that you view?
Surely Christ has made it clear, we can "remove the plank from" our own eyes.


How do you know, it's clearly possible to keep the commandments, I just posted earlier,
Christians are not in the flesh,





and also,





That's how we know we are in him, IF we keep his commandments, and they are not grievous.



Actually, you did not quote all of Romans 2:1
the full verse says:



This speaks of judging people hyprocritcally, lets say, if I had a lustful heart still, and I judged a homosexual, I would be a hypocrite, my judgement would judge me right back.

It in no way says," Paul speak of anyone who judges that someone else is not saved because of sin and they think they are righteousness enough to earn salvation."

People are not saved because they continue in sin, but our own deeds do not save us, but grace which trains us, does save us, by a faith that works by love, not failing the grace of God.

No one can do enough righteous deeds to save himself, only by grace through a living faith, and righteousness is evident in such people who are saved.



I get to pick which righteousness I want to be judged by?
Mine or Jesus?
First off, righteousness doesnt save us, but...


Grace is what essentially saves us, not righteousness as the root of salvation. Righteousness is the fruit of a living faith.


Ah, but we are saved from the law of it, but are we merely declared saved from it? No, for grace influences us to depart from sin, and by faith we live right. Those living according to the flesh are in the captivity of the law of sin and death. Those who live to the spirit, they are freed.

as evident:


As for Romans 7, my response is Romans 8. Are you a Romans 7 wretch, carnally minded? or a Romans 8 spiritual man, led by God, doing his commandments?



We arent saved by righteousness, but by Grace, the question posed is a false dichotomy.
I dont believe in penalty substitution or "righteousness transfer from Jesus to me".
I believe in Ransom from sin and death, and righteousness imputed because of a faith deemed living by God.

May God open your eyes somehow, with the power of his grace, he loved us while we were still sinners, law breakers, but now we do not go against him, because we love him, and keep his commandments, and they are not greivous. Have a living faith.

You are denying that the blood of Jesus Christ saved you because you must still be good enough.

You are denying that there is only one who is righteous and that is God and the only righteousness man possesses is the imputed righteousness of jesus Christ. Please explain what Romans 4 is saying.

Obviously you are in grievous sin and from your own mouth have condemned your self.

As to saved by grace, what do you think the name I have chosen for this forum is?

 

[Near]

@ SavedByGraceThruFaith

I am saying we are saved by grace, not righteousness. Righteousnes is imperative since it is the fruit of a living faith, and its through faith by grace we are saved, as it's written in Titus 2, grace trains us, but as it says in heb 12, we can fail the grace of God.

Blood on it's own does not save us, there must be repentance, or can a child molestor willfully continue in his crimes and still be saved? Answer that.
Becuase I know of such people.

Your belief supports the notion that child molestors can keep on sinning their sins, and still be saved by a DEAD faith. You've done nothing to actually address my points, only repeat your information of errorful indoctrination.

I have given you many questions, yet you haven't answered them.

How can we fail the grace of God as Heb 12 says?
Can a child molestor remain one and still be saved for merely accepting Jesus as Lord?
Havent you read Matt 7?

Answer this: do child molestors who continue to molest children even if they believe in saved by grace through faith (dead faith), enter the kingdom?

Do you even know the difference between a living faith and a dead one?

Have you actually prayed to God on this? Are you being led by the spirit or your flesh?

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. (I Corinthians 6:9-11 NKJV)

There's a reason why Paul wrote that.
You have been deceived, such people will not enter the kingdom, not becuase of righteousness, but becuase of lawlessness. Those who enter paradise go there becuase of their faith, which was living, but the root of their salvation was grace

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

@ SavedByGraceThruFaith

I am saying we are saved by grace, not righteousness. Righteousnes is imperative since it is the fruit of a living faith, and its through faith by grace we are saved, as it's written in Titus 2, grace trains us, but as it says in heb 12, we can fail the grace of God.

Blood on it's own does not save us, there must be repentance, or can a child molestor willfully continue in his crimes and still be saved? Answer that.
Becuase I know of such people.

Your belief supports the notion that child molestors can keep on sinning their sins, and still be saved by a DEAD faith. You've done nothing to actually address my points, only repeat your information of errorful indoctrination.

I have given you many questions, yet you haven't answered them.

How can we fail the grace of God as Heb 12 says?
Can a child molestor remain one and still be saved for merely accepting Jesus as Lord?
Havent you read Matt 7?

Answer this: do child molestors who continue to molest children even if they believe in saved by grace through faith (dead faith), enter the kingdom?

Do you even know the difference between a living faith and a dead one?

Have you actually prayed to God on this? Are you being led by the spirit or your flesh?

You just publicly denied that the blood of Jesus Christ saves.
It just does not have that saved forever, all sins forgiven power for you.
Jesus Christ is not really Saviour to you. He is just a helper. You do the rest.

Led by the Holy Spirt and the word of God Almighty.

By grace - nothing about you deserves it - past, present, future

are ye saved - forever guaranteed

through faith - just believe and trust in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ

and that not of yourselves - nothing you can do will ever merit or earn salvation, not before, not after.

it is the gift of God - gifts are not earned else they are not a gift, they are not merited else it is not a gift, they are never taken back

not of works - again nothing that you do before or after can earn or merit salvation

lest any man should boast - boasting ( works or not admitting you are ungodly) is excluded from heaven

 

[Near]

@savedbygracethrufaith

Do you love God? Do you know him?

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. (I John 2:3-6 NKJV)

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

@savedbygracethrufaith

Do you love God?

Yes I do I love my Saviour Jesus Christ and my Father in heaven.

 

[Near]

I believe in salvation by grace through faith.

However we can fail the grace of God.

Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. (Hebrews 12:14-17 NKJV)

Saved by grace, doesnt mean we can't be in danger of hell, it's called, being one of the sinners of 1 Cor 6:9-10 for example.

 

[Near]

Yes I do I love my Saviour Jesus Christ and my Father in heaven.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. (I John 5:3 NKJV)

Do you keep his commandments?

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

I believe in salvation by grace through faith.

However we can fail the grace of God.

Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. (Hebrews 12:14-17 NKJV)

Saved by grace, doesnt mean we can't be in danger of hell, it's called, being one of the sinners of 1 Cor 7:9-10 for example.

That passages has nothing about anyone going to hell or losing salvation. Fall from grace in this life time.

Sorry you came up with zero.

Jesus Christ said the following. Since the Holy Sprit will not leave ever then you cannot lose salvation or go to hell because the Holy Spirit will not be in hell.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

 

[Near]

That passages has nothing about anyone going to hell or losing salvation. Fall from grace in this life time.

Sorry you came up with zero.

Jesus Christ said the following. Since the Holy Sprit will not leave ever then you cannot lose salvation or go to hell because the Holy Spirit will not be in hell.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

But you are carnal, sold under sin, not spiritual led by the spirit, you say so yourself right?
Jesus wasnt talking to you though, and he did say, that he "may" abide with you for ever. Not will.

 

[Near]

Jesus' own words:

“To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it. ” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations— ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’ — as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ (Revelation 2:1-29 NKJV)

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens” : “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ” (Revelation 3:1-22 NKJV)

 

[SavedByGraceThruFaith]

Jesus' own words:

“To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it. ” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations— ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’ — as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ (Revelation 2:1-29 NKJV)

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens” : “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ ” (Revelation 3:1-22 NKJV)

You just misquoted the entire passage.

It is not necessarily your fault. You probably do not understand the issue.

The reason is that all modern bibles remove the distinction between singular and plural second person pronouns. That is they remove: thee, thy, thou and thine.

This does cause a potential major problem in Revelation 2 and 3, because Jesus Christ is talking to churches and not necessarily to individuals. So many misunderstand who is being addressed: church as a whole, non-saved people in the church or in their immediate world, or the saved.

Why don't you study that from the KJB.

Then make a particular point about a particular church.

 

[Near]

Yes I do I love my Saviour Jesus Christ and my Father in heaven.

Actually you dont, because you dont keep his commandments.

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous

1 John 5:3

Nor do you know him,

1 john 2:
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 

[Near]

You just misquoted the entire passage.

It is not necessarily your fault. You probably do not understand the issue.

The reason is that all modern bibles remove the distinction between singular and plural second person pronouns. That is they remove: thee, thy, thou and thine.

This does cause a potential major problem in Revelation 2 and 3, because Jesus Christ is talking to churches and not necessarily to individuals. So many misunderstand who is being addressed: church as a whole, non-saved people in the church or in their immediate world, or the saved.

Why don't you study that from the KJB.

Then make a particular point about a particular church.

He isnt talking to non-believers hanging out at a church, he's talking to unsaved believers, who have dead faith. To say he's talking to atheists hanging out at churches is non-sense, futhermore you ignore the entire meaning. Read it again.

also, i didnt misquote the passages, I used all of Rev 2 & 3

another thing the KJV, is not the original text. The original is in greek.