Does Revelation 20:4-6 & John 5:28-29 completely destroy any pretrib rapture doctrine

[ebedmelech]

This is how it happens, People get saved, and as new believers they go churches that teach the rapture. Being babes in Christ they simply accept that what they are taught is the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)...and they run with that. Why? Because ther pastor or teacher said so.

That's what I was taught...UNTIL I began reading and studying for myself. WHen you compare 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, with 1 Corinthians 15:35-58, it *should* be obvious it's the resurrection.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

.........
Quick answer: Yes they do.
Both speak only of 2 resurrections, the first of which (resurrection of life) doesn't happen until after the beast sets up his image and mark and declares war on the church (Revelation 20:4-6)
There cant be a pretrib rapture if the first resurrection isnt until after the beast has been revealed and set up in power.

I never looked at it that way......interesting.

 

[DavidPT]

I never looked at it that way......interesting.

I have looked at it that way myself. And if memory serves, I think I may have used this as an argument a time or two in some of these threads. But I wasn't even aware of this thread at the time. I find it interesting then, how the OP and I seem to be reasoning some of these things in like manner. Can't be just a coincidence. Must be something to it. Of course though, if one is coming from an Amil perspective, it throws a monkey wrench into the entire argument since that position doesn't view the first resurrection the same way Pretribbers and Premils view it.

 

[Biblewriter]

I assumed you could not explain that glaring contradiction between the doctrine of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of John Nelson Darby.

Can you explain this one? What does that mean, "endure unto the end?" Endure to the end of what?

"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." -- Matt 24:12-13​

.

You call this "the doctrine of John Nelson Darby," but I can name dozens of writers who taught it before Darby was even born, and some who taught it more than a thousand years before he was born.

 

[Chinchilla]

Revelation 20:4-6 ESV

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

John 5:28-29 ESV

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Quick answer:

Yes they do.

Both speak only of 2 resurrections, the first of which (resurrection of life) doesn't happen until after the beast sets up his image and mark and declares war on the church (Revelation 20:4-6)

There cant be a pretrib rapture if the first resurrection isnt until after the beast has been revealed and set up in power.

Rapture was mystery , that means nothing prior to Paul's revelation of it to us was about the rapture .

 

[Biblewriter]

We need to realize that ALL theories about when the rapture occurs are based on interpretation. For, although the scriptures very explicitly state that this event will take place, they simply do not STATE when this will happen, relative to the other end time events so plainly (and some not so plainly) stated in scripture.

Almost every argument against the doctrine of a rapture before the great tribulation is based on a rank assumption that the scriptures foretell only one future coming of Christ. These people correctly point out that no scripture says He will return more than one time. But they neglect that no Old Testament scripture said He would come more than just one time. But these Old Testament prophecies contained details that would have been flat contradictions if the great promised Messiah were only coming one time. The Jewish scholars loved the scriptures about the great conquering hero Messiah, so they studied those parts. But they neglected the prophecies about the meek suffering servant Messiah who would die for their sins. So when Jesus came as a meek suffering servant, they failed to recognize Him and fulfilled the prophecies about how He would die for their sins.

The modern post tribbers ignore similar mutually exclusive details in the various prophecies about the return of Christ. It is physically impossible for all of these details to be fulfilled at the same time. The precedent set on the Old Testament shows us the resolution to this paradox. He is returning more than just one time.

When this is realized, almost all of their arguments simply collapse.