Does reality comprise only 5% of the Universe?

[AV1611VET]

The OP was about the physical universe and that topic held until someone drove it off a cliff in post #2. Wonder who that agent of chaos was???

I'm talking about the cliff in Post 76.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'm talking about the cliff in Post 76.

And I was responding to a direct, on topic, response to the OP. I'm not the one confusing "Dark energy/matter" with the spiritual.

 

[AV1611VET]

And I was responding to a direct, on topic, response to the OP. I'm not the one confusing "Dark energy/matter" with the spiritual.

Just watch your own cliffs, chief.

Remember saying this:

Unfortunately some posters confuse this with "spiritual".

That remark goes both ways.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Just watch your own cliffs, chief.

Remember saying this:



That remark goes both ways.

It's a thread about the physical contents of the Universe, not religion.

 

[Halbhh]

Can you explain how the reality we live in extends into the invisible? Our reality is the physical world of matter, stuff we can see and experience.

'Dark matter' -- the temporary name given to the unknown that we think exists by the observed excess of gravitational force in galaxies beyond what known types of matter can account for ---seems to exert gravitation on regular matter (see links below). If that's correct (as it appears to be), and the hypothesized 'dark matter' interacts gravitationally with all ordinary matter,including our sun, then both our galaxy is shaped as it is, and the sun's orbit in our galaxy also, are due in large part to dark matter shaping our galaxy.

e.g., one of the several types of evidence of 'dark matter': "... when astronomers measure the speed of stars in the outskirts of galaxies, they find that they move quicker than predicted. If the laws of gravity and motion are correct, the only explanation is that extra, unseen matter is increasing the gravity experienced by these fast-moving stars."

The case for dark matter has strengthened

Though a single measurement is not enough to definitively decide the debate, this is a major win for dark matter proponents.

bigthink.com

Another kind: Discoveries - Highlights | Shining a Light on Dark Matter

 

[sjastro]

Here is a basic outline of scientific theory which has nothing to do with spirituality or religion and illustrates where matter fits into the scheme of things.

Ordinary matter can be explained with a non phenomenological theory which describes the nature of matter through the standard model of particle physics and is based on quantum field theories.
This is supported by particle accelerator experiments.

The existence of dark matter and dark energy comes through their measurable effects, there is no direct physical evidence of their existence.
For dark matter the effects are rotation curves of galaxies, gravitational lensing and escape velocities of individual galaxies in galaxy clusters; for dark energy it is the acceleration of the expanding universe measured through calculating distances using type Ia supernovae.

The objective of science is to find a non-phenomenological theory for the nature of dark matter and dark energy defined by the red arrow in the diagram.

 

[sjastro]

Here is a basic outline of scientific theory which has nothing to do with spirituality or religion and illustrates where matter fits into the scheme of things.

View attachment 330791​

Ordinary matter can be explained with a non phenomenological theory which describes the nature of matter through the standard model of particle physics and is based on quantum field theories.
This is supported by particle accelerator experiments.

The existence of dark matter and dark energy comes through their measurable effects, there is no direct physical evidence of their existence.
For dark matter the effects are rotation curves of galaxies, gravitational lensing and escape velocities of individual galaxies in galaxy clusters; for dark energy it is the acceleration of the expanding universe measured through calculating distances using type Ia supernovae.

The objective of science is to find a non-phenomenological theory for the nature of dark matter and dark energy defined by the red arrow in the diagram.

The obvious question which arises is how do we know the universe is composed of 5% ordinary matter and 95% dark matter and dark energy?
How the universe expands depends on these percentages.
By measuring the redshift of galaxies and their recession velocities from their spectra along with their distances using standard candles, the best fitting model is a universe composed of 5% ordinary matter, 25% dark matter and 70% dark energy.
Cosmologists lump the ordinary matter and dark matter together and define the density parameters Ωm and ΩΛ for mass and dark energy respectively.
A cosmological model where Ωm = 0.3 and ΩΛ = 0.7 gives the closest results to the measurements.

 

[dlamberth]

It's a thread about the physical contents of the Universe, not religion.

True!

 

[Niels]

The components of the universe exist regardless of whether we understand or are even aware of them. Our lack of knowledge does not render future discoveries any less real. The building blocks that comprise reality were real all along.

That being said, we don't have a 5% understanding of reality. The fact of the matter is that we don't have the foggiest clue about the extent of our knowledge or lack thereof. One would need a 100% understanding of it to make such a claim with accuracy. Nevertheless, it's fun to think about.

 

[Kylie]

I asked ChatGPT what percentage of the universe is made up of Dark Energy. By the answer I received (which I included below) it sure seems to me that "reality", the one we live in, amounts to only 5% of the Universe.

The AI's answer...
According to the latest measurements and observations, it is estimated that about 68% of the total energy density in the observable universe is made up of dark energy. Dark energy is a mysterious force that appears to be causing the expansion of the universe to accelerate. The remaining 32% is made up of dark matter (27%) and ordinary matter (5%). However, it's important to note that these estimates are subject to revision as our understanding of the universe improves through new observations and measurements.

Why do you think ordinary matter is the only part that is reality? Why do you think dark matter and dark energy are not reality?

 

[Divide]

the best fitting model is a universe composed of 5% ordinary matter, 25% dark matter and 70% dark energy.

Hpw about this. dark matter may be the fabric of space. It is said that one day it will be rolled up like a scroll. dark energy could be the energy field that is free energy for mankind if they'd let us know about it instead of telling us to plug into the wall.

When they find it and learn to work with it, will they weaponize it?

 

[AV1611VET]

It is said that one day it will be rolled up like a scroll.

Yup.

And that, in itself, speaks of a fourth dimension of space; as you can't roll a three-dimensional object up without a fourth dimension.

 

[sjastro]

Hpw about this. dark matter may be the fabric of space. It is said that one day it will be rolled up like a scroll. dark energy could be the energy field that is free energy for mankind if they'd let us know about it instead of telling us to plug into the wall.

When they find it and learn to work with it, will they weaponize it?

This is not a science fiction forum.

Clearly dark matter is not the fabric of space-time because like ordinary matter it clumps in regions of high gravity such as around galaxies which affects their rotation curves or in galaxy clusters which makes it harder for individual galaxies to breakaway which ordinary matter cannot account for.

The universe is an isolated thermodynamic system and according to the second law of thermodynamics its entropy or disorder increases with time.
The greater the entropy the less energy is leftover to do useful work and when the system reaches equilibrium or in other words maximum entropy there is no energy to perform useful work.
Dark energy is believed to be an intrinsic property of space-time in the form of vacuum energy.
Since dark energy is the same everywhere it is in a state of equilibrium and therefore mankind living inside this fabric of space-time cannot extract energy from space-time itself.

 

[sjastro]

Yup.

And that, in itself, speaks of a fourth dimension of space; as you can't roll a three-dimensional object up without a fourth dimension.

I suggest you stick to Bible quotations.

 

[AV1611VET]

I suggest you stick to Bible quotations.

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[dlamberth]

Why do you think ordinary matter is the only part that is reality? Why do you think dark matter and dark energy are not reality?

Good question. We can touch, smell, see, experience and do stuff with the reality we live in. Not so much with Dark Energy.

 

[sjastro]

Isaiah 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

What would have happened if the poster used the term "topological transformation" instead of scroll, you would be in real trouble to find any quote.
Here is a challenge for you what does the Bible say about entropy?

 

[AV1611VET]

Here is a challenge for you what does the Bible say about entropy?

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

 

[sjastro]

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

You couldn't picked a more opposite definition.
Entropy is associated with decay not "groaneth".

The monkey beats out a better explanation of entropy than your Bible quote.

 

[AV1611VET]

You couldn't picked a more opposite definition.
Entropy is associated with decay not "groaneth".

Anything else I can't answer for you?