Does John 17:15 Destroy Pretribulation Rapture?

[Danoh]

Justification and sanctification are two separate items. The first is a one time and it’s done deal. The latter is a progression. And there are good people on all sides of the eschatological issues. Eschatology is on the low rung of the ladder in regards to sanctification. The fruits of the Spirit far outweigh eschatology and the vast majority of those that claim to be Christians have enough on their plate getting that.

But nonetheless, I apologize. I misread what you were saying.

Walter Martin, the original “Bible Answer Man” on radio was a solid conservative man of faith who held a mid trib view. Chuck Missler (pre-trib) and him were lifetime friends. Marv Rosenthal is a true brother in the Lord, but is the primary proponent of the pre-wrath position. About the only positions I have serious issues with are Pretorism and Amillenialism. Both have to allegorize the scripture to wild extremes to pull those ideas off.

You missed my point once more; I was not talking about salvation and or about sanctification, but merely used them as an example of what I was talking about.

I was pointing out a principle my mention of those two was merely an example of.

I was talking about the erroneous "notion that because a doctrine is not conditional to salvation, it is not equally important.."

The subject was an Eschatological one.

You asserted it is less important than salvation...

Absolutely not.

2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The only person in Scripture whom God used to teach a Premillenial, Pre-Trib Rapture, to begin with, appears to have held its proper understanding carries equal weight with properly understanding the Eternal Security of the Believer - both are meant to stabilize the Believer in the Hope given Him in the Cross.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Etc.

Romans 5:6-8 - in EACH our STEAD.

 

[Copperhead]

If eschatology is not less important than salvation, then how did the thief on the cross get saved since there was not time to really develop any eschatology beyond his comment "remember me when You come into your kingdom". I am not sure he was contemplating pre, mid, pre-wrath, or post trib while he was gasping for air like breathing thru a wet rag due to the intense muscle spasms he was undergoing due to being crucified. It wasn't eschatology that saved him or had any part in it. it was recognizing Yeshua as the Son of God and calling out to Him.

 

[food4thought]

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
-John 17:15

I'm a pre trib believer, but I can't help but be bothered by this verse. does this prove posttribulation, or is there a way around this? I'd like some answers

Hi Ethan. Blind post, I don't have the time to read this entire thread! I see this as speaking specifically of the Apostles. If you look at the context , verses 6-19 are all a prayer primarily for the Apostles. Verse 20 and following is His prayer for those who would believe "through their word"... in other words us, and, necessarily, those who will be part of the rapture (if it isn't us).

Hope this helps;

Michael