Does Jesus NOT know the day of his future second coming????

[Erik Nelson]

It's your own idea that only the Father is God.

you mean, Nicene creed, line 1

Jesus was, and is, the eternal word through whom all things are made, John 1:1-2; Colossians 1:15-16; Hebrews 1:2-3.
Jesus was the Word made flesh, John 1:14; 1 John 1:1-2.

God's Word incarnated into Jesus Christ, yes

Jesus was opposed, almost stoned and finally crucified because he claimed to be God, John 8:58-59,

again, everyone knows that God's own Word, incarnate in Jesus Christ, is transcendent, eternal, beyond and prior to all space and time

John 10:32-33.

Jesus's accusers were telling the truth???

what about John 8:44?

next you will be saying his Accusers were right again, that he really was crucified and the body stolen to fake the Crucifixion?

you flat out, in full view of all, openly acknowledge that your doctrine is that of Jesus' diabolical Accusers?

If Jesus was not God, then it means that it was only a man who died on the cross, and would have been no more able to take away our sins that any other man. Even Noah and Job, who were described as righteous and blameless, sinned. Job offered sacrifices to God for his sons' sins; he did not offer himself. But Jesus is the Lamb of God who gave his life for the sin of the world, John 1:29, John 10:11, Matthew 26:28.

Jesus is God the Son, NOT God the Father.
But God is a trinity; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God.

God's own Word, His own "right hand" to paraphrase Saint Irenaeus, was on the cross

in what way is God's own Word, His own "right hand" insufficient to do anything?

God's own Word, His own "right hand" created the whole entire universe... but can't save, fix, troubleshoot our part of it?

God's sure lost His touch!

 

[Erik Nelson]

Trinity =tri-unity; 1 in 3 and 3 in 1. The Father, the Son and the Spirit are all divine.

that is orthodox, as written

To say otherwise is to deny the Trinity and full deity of Christ

orthodox, as written

There is ONE God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

that there is advocating Modalism, an ancient heresy

God in essence and nature is not the same as God the Father in Person

I'm not denying the Trinity

that statement is trying to telescope it all together and, in so doing, deny the orthodox Monarchy of the Father doctrine

 

[Strong in Him]

you mean, Nicene creed, line 1

No.
I'm not denying that the Father is God.
You appear to be saying that ONLY the Father is God; hence when I said "Jesus is and was God", you replied with the words, "Jesus was not the Father". I.E the Father is God, Jesus is not the Father = Jesus was, and is, not God.

God's Word incarnated into Jesus Christ, yes

John talks of the eternal Word who is God, one with God and through whom all things were created. John 1:14 says the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Word was born as a baby and given the name Jesus. He was fully man; Jesus was his human name - he didn't stop being God though.

what about John 8:44?

What about it??
Jesus is talking about Satan, not himself.

next you will be saying his Accusers were right again, that he really was crucified and the body stolen to fake the Crucifixion?

??
I think you may be referring to what Pilate said; that the disciples might have tried to steal his body and then claim that he had risen - faking the resurrection, not crucifixion.
And I'd never claim that.

you flat out, in full view of all, openly acknowledge that your doctrine is that of Jesus' diabolical Accusers?

No I don't; I said nothing of the kind.

God's own Word, His own "right hand" to paraphrase Saint Irenaeus, was on the cross

And that Word was Jesus.
Jesus was arrested, beaten, mocked for being King of the Jews, crucified, died was buried and raised again. Jesus of Nazareth; who was also the eternal Word of God.

 

[Strong in Him]

that there is advocating Modalism, an ancient heresy

That is the TRINITY - a central Christian belief, taught and accepted by churches, and a very important belief on this forum.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

"We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible..."

So you do not believe Lord Jesus is God. OK. Now I know where you are coming from.
So you are not a Christian then. Why does your profile say you are non-denominational? That is misleading.

 

[DennisTate]

Jesus told the 12 He was going back to make them a home and would come back and get them so where He is they will be. He said ..if it was not true He would tell them. Matt 24 was not talking to one Christian or Church. Jewish people asked Him about the end He told them what they will see. And from that day till now.. everyone that has ever asked prayed about His return.. He has never told them. I am going with He does not know.

If I might.. forgive me. I think we should take NDA with a grain of salt. The stories can be very moving. See I look for it to line up with the word of God. So when "someone" says during the great white throne Judgement "the demons will come and drag you to hell." <--yeah for me..I can't find this in the word of God. And there were more things this person said that are not in the word of God. So I tend to put what this person and others said aside. We .. as I see it should never run with experiences. God always confirms His word.

I tend to find .. God is really messed up here. Well so many of these "stories" that I can not explain nor would ever make fun of.. don't come together at all. You read something in the world and.. its NO WHERE to be found in this story. I just start with a foundation and thats the word

From studying near death experience accounts over thirty years I have noticed that one very important test is whether or not the person had a Life Review?

A Life Review is part of a Covenant that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus made with all of us so I used this as a litmus test for these accounts.

Matthew 4
for example has many similarities to an out of the body experience and ......
Matthew 5
Matthew 6 and
Matthew 7
remind me of how near death experiencers speak and think after their brushes with death.

Jhn 5:22

For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Jhn 5:27

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Heb 9:27

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

3. The Life Review of Howard Storm

Next, they wanted to talk about my life. To my surprise my life played out before me, maybe six or eight feet in front of me, from beginning to end.



The life review was very much in their control, and they showed me my life, but not from my point of view. I saw me in my life and this whole thing was a lesson, even though I didn't know it at the time. They were trying to teach me something, but I didn't know it was a teaching experience, because I didn't know that I would be coming back. We just watched my life from beginning to the end. Some things they slowed down on, and zoomed in on and other things they went right through.



My life was shown in a way that I had never thought of before. All of the things that I had worked to achieve, the recognition that I had worked for, in elementary school, in high school, in college, and in my career, they meant nothing in this setting.



I could feel their feelings of sorrow and suffering, or joy, as my life's review unfolded. They didn't say that something was bad or good, but I could feel it. And I could sense all those things they were indifferent to. They didn't, for example, look down on my high school shot-put record. They just didn't feel anything towards it, nor towards other things which I had taken so much pride in.



What they responded to was how I had interacted with other people. That was the long and short of it. Unfortunately, most of my interactions with other people didn't measure up with how I should have interacted, which was in a loving way. Whenever I did react during my life in a loving way they rejoiced.

Most of the time I found that my interactions with other people had been manipulative. During my professional career, for example, I saw myself sitting in my office, playing the college professor, while a student came to me with a personal problem. I sat there looking compassionate, and patient, and loving, while inside I was bored to death. I would check my watch under my desk as I anxiously waited for the student to finish.

 

[DennisTate]

Acts of the Apostles 1

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[timothyu]

It is interesting that many do not see God for what it is ... government. Jesus brought us and taught us the Kingdom/governance of God (over the governance of man). Those in a government need not be equal but must all serve the same purpose.

 

[timothyu]

From studying near death experience accounts over thirty years I have noticed that one very important test is whether or not the person had a Life Review?

The older I get the more of those I have everyday, complete with a revival of the actual emotions of the time. Times sure do change who we were.

 

[Hawkins]

That's when Jesus was a human prophet. He needs to submit Himself completely to God the Father and knows only what God the Father wants Him to know, as any other prophets should. God is omnipotent in doing so.

 

[DennisTate]

The older I get the more of those I have everyday, complete with a revival of the actual emotions of the time. Times sure do change who we were.

Yes....... I can definitely identify......
For about two years now it seems like I am being led to a whole new level of conviction for my sins of the past so that I can do better now and in the future.

2018 outpouring, are you feeling it? I am!

 

[nolidad]

It is not quietly! Shofarim announce his coming...be prepared...nothing secret about it!

Well right before we are caught up there is the trump of God. whether or not it is a shofar is TBD. And whethter the world hears the trump is also unknown

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Well right before we are caught up there is the trump of God. whether or not it is a shofar is TBD. And whethter the world hears the trump is also unknown

There is no "secret" rapture. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west... Luke 17:23-24

 

[nolidad]

There is no "secret" rapture. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west... Luke 7:23-24

That passage refers to Jesus returning to earth. The rapture is Jesus just descending ot the atmosphere to catch up the church and take us to heaven for the bema judgment, and the marriage ceremony!

The rapture will be done in amoment, in the blink of an eye!

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 King James Version (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[timothyu]

Going to be a lot of disappointed people all the way from the Lord Lords to those who think serving both man and God, two different masters, can be accomplished

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

That passage refers to Jesus returning to earth. The rapture is Jesus just descending ot the atmosphere to catch up the church and take us to heaven for the bema judgment, and the marriage ceremony!

The rapture will be done in amoment, in the blink of an eye!

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 King James Version (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The dead rise first...it is the resurrection. Yeshua only comes back once. Behold, He [Yeshua] is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him.
Shabbat Shalom

 

[ewq1938]

t
that there is advocating Modalism, an ancient heresy

That isn't Modalism. Modalism says there is one person who is God, acting in the roles of Father and Son etc.

Trinitarianism says there is one God and multiple persons which is definitely not Modalism.

 

[Erik Nelson]

That isn't Modalism. Modalism says there is one person who is God, acting in the roles of Father and Son etc.

Trinitarianism says there is one God and multiple persons which is definitely not Modalism.

How about we (try to) speak the original inspired language, 1st century AD Greek?

I challenge you (two pairs of eyes are better than one), throughout the whole entire Greek LXX OT & NT, the original Greek is 100.000% consistent:

• the Father = ton Theon (the God)
• Word / Spirit = Theos (Godly, Godlike, God-by-nature-and-essence-but-not-by-Person)

If you find an exception, anywhere in the Greek OT-NT, please point it out to me.

Saint Irenaeus clarified this. "The Father" is the One True God, His Word & His Spirit are His "two hands" with which he interacts with creation.

• "His hands" are fully Divine / Godly / Godlike...
• Transcendent / beyond creation / eternal / beyond space-and-time...

But only the Father is utterly completely totally wholly entirely 100% uncaused, being The First Prime Cause of philosophy (Kalam)

The Father generates His Word ("begetting") and His Spirit ("spiration")

It's like you and your hands vs. everything you make with your hands. No one can compare either you or your hands to any of the things you make. You and your hands are a completely separate category / class / league. You, however, are ultimately in charge of everything.

Even the Angels are created beings, fashioned within our creation space-time fabric through the action of God's Word (and maybe perhaps animated by God's Spirit, or something like that). Not even the Angels can be compared to any member of the Godhead, all three Persons of which are fully Divine / Godly / Godlike by nature. No other entity is "Divine", "Godly / Godlike" by nature. And, also, only The Father is the ultimate source of everything, the root of even the rest of the Godhead:

"One God, [the] Father, uncreated, invisible, Creator of all, above whom there is no other, after whom there is no other God. And as God is verbal, therefore, He made created things by the [His] Word…"

Saint Irenaeus, Proof of the Apostolic Preaching 5​

 

[ewq1938]

How about we (try to) speak the original inspired language, 1st century AD Greek?

No, because that isn't the issue at hand. You called something "Modalism" when it was Trinitarianism. You were wrong about what the other member posted and I suspect you do not correctly understand what Modalism is based on your incorrect labeling. You also seem to not correctly understand what Trinitarianism teaches, that one God is composed of three, and those three being Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That Sir is NOT Modalism.

You also wrongly said, "only the Father is utterly completely totally wholly entirely 100% uncaused"

False...all of the Trinity is "uncaused".

 

[Erik Nelson]

No, because that isn't the issue at hand. You called something "Modalism" when it was Trinitarianism. You were wrong about what the other member posted and I suspect you do not correctly understand what Modalism is based on your incorrect labeling. You also seem to not correctly understand what Trinitarianism teaches, that one God is composed of three, and those three being Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That Sir is NOT Modalism.

You also wrongly said, "only the Father is utterly completely totally wholly entirely 100% uncaused"

False...all of the Trinity is "uncaused".

Not according to Nicea, the original council of "Victory":

We may be troubled by passages that identify the Father as “the one true God.” Historic Trinitarianism was not. This was because it understood the doctrine sometimes called the monarchy of the Father. While each of the persons of the Trinity possess the entire divine essence and are from their standpoint of their essence self-existent, the same thing is not true for the persons of the Trinity. Each person is eternal but in Nicene Trinitarianism the persons of the Son and Spirit originate from the Father. Thus, later in the Creed it is affirmed that both the persons of the Son and Spirit eternally come from or are derived from the person of the Father...

Monarchy of the Father – The Sovereign Logos​

Q.E.D.

Glad I could help clarify this important doctrine for you